Unenforceable Credit agreements - another one!!!!

[Stubie]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am in the process of joining the fray regarding unenforceable Credit agreements. I have sent CCA requests to 5 of my 6 credit card providers.

 

So far 2 replies, both from Barclaycard. Status is:

 

Barclaycard Visa: No sign of a CCA but sent T&Cs plus some other stuff - waiting for 12+2 working and 30 calender to expire before responding with failure to comply/ dispute status letter

 

Barclaycard mastercard (used to be Morgan Stanley): sent T&Cs only.

 

Halifax: no reply to date

 

MBNA (used to be AOL): no reply to date.

 

Capital One: No reply to date.

 

Mint: no contacted.

 

The Mint account has a balalnce of £461.37. I think I can't do anything because the balance is below £500. Is this correct?

 

Is it best to wait for the 30 calender days to expire ( offence under CCA 1974) before follow up, even when the reply states that this is the conclusion of a response?

 

Any observations or guidance would be appreciated. I sent CCA requests on 28th Mar 09 so 12 +2 expires on 23rd April 09 with 30 calender days expiring on 23rd May 09. Will keep this post alive with updates for others to watch.

 

Is there any sort of database os CCAs and their enforceability, by date, or any list of success by company in terms of settlement? Happy to keep such a record if this is valuable to those who follow.

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

cca is 12+2 workings days only

the 30 day thing went some months ago.

 

for what reasons are you requesting them?

 

here at cag we don't condone shirking one's just dues, but it does put you in a stronger position for p'haps a reduced f&f.

 

dx

[Stubie]

cca is 12+2 workings days only

the 30 day thing went some months ago.

 

for what reasons are you requesting them?

 

here at cag we don't condone shirking one's just dues, but it does put you in a stronger position for p'haps a reduced f&f.

 

dx

 

Hi,

 

Not trying to shirk my dues but many of these cards are paid off, in terms of the capital spent, they are just interest on interest and as I pay, the rates go up and I stand still.

 

I'm more than happy to pay what I owe. I struggle with receiving penalty charges because the payment on the interest on the interest (deliberate repeat) took 12 days for the bank to process, even though it was an electronic transfer.

 

I'm paying out a significant chunk of my wages just to stand still.

 

I have recently been put on notice of redundancy, which I communicated to all my alleged creditors. The response was silence in writing, the phone calls started to get payments, even though I had made them. Oh, and MBNA increased my interest rate from 29.9% to 35.9%.

 

Times are hard enough, I'm losing my job and would like to see if I can put an end to all this whilst I still have an income to settle from.

 

Stubie

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

After reading what you have said, I would be going down the SAR route as this will get back everything the banks have on you including statements which will show how much they have charged you in "penalties"

 

Once you have the statements, you can then start a claim for a refund.

 

Most banks will knock you back at the first attempt but by persevering and if nescessary, going to court, many of them will cough up.

 

As they are all credit cards, they are not subject to the stay which the banks are using for their bank charges

[Stubie]

They are all credit cards, and in fairness, the sums are not huge, although my mortgage is since I took it over 10 years - repayment. I need to be in a position to keep up payments on the house once my income stops, without worrying about the CCCs.

 

I have sent subject access requests to to two of them, didn't want too much on the go at one time. But I also have all my statements going back years (sad really).

 

MBNA replied to the SAR yesterday saying they needed proof of ID with my signature, just thinking how to proceed with this as I am concerned that, if I provide a signature, they will copy paste onto and agreement and say, here it is!!!!

 

Quick Summary:

Barclaycard Visa: No sign of a CCA but sent T&Cs - they have sent 4v copies of them, so far (why!!!) plus some other stuff - now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response.

 

Barclaycard mastercard (used to be Morgan Stanley): sent T&Cs only. Now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response.

 

Halifax: Sent Agreement and T&Cs and a very hostile letter. Agreement has no sigs (claim SI 1557), address is incorrect at time of inception, charges listed as £12, not £25 as was the case, credit limit wrong, shows current limit not original..... the list goes on. Letter sent highlighting irregularities and confirming that it is not a "true copy" or "executed"

 

MBNA (used to be AOL): no reply to date. Had a reply to the SAR request but nothing on the original CCA request.

 

Capital One: Sent blank agreement and current T&Cs. Now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response. SAR request submitted, no response, to date (still within 40 days)

 

Mint: CCA requested, no response (still within 12 working days).

 

You mention that the 30 days has gone, where does that come from, I have read extensively but not picked that up. I could be in overload as I am trying to get through the 757 pages of the Tamadus epic thread, at the moment - on page 312 now.

 

Also, are there any other threads that you could recommend as a source of good current info, save me trawling through them all.

 

Thanks for the reply

 

Stubie

[silverfox1961]

They are all credit cards, and in fairness, the sums are not huge, although my mortgage is since I took it over 10 years - repayment. I need to be in a position to keep up payments on the house once my income stops, without worrying about the CCCs.

 

I have sent subject access requests to to two of them, didn't want too much on the go at one time. But I also have all my statements going back years (sad really).

 

MBNA replied to the SAR yesterday saying they needed proof of ID with my signature, just thinking how to proceed with this as I am concerned that, if I provide a signature, they will copy paste onto and agreement and say, here it is!!!!

 

There's been a lot of that recently and the advice has been, send a signature but put a couple of lines through it so you will know if it's been lifted OR change your signature very slightly and make a copy of it so if the did "lift" it, you would have proof

 

Quick Summary:

Barclaycard Visa: No sign of a CCA but sent T&Cs - they have sent 4v copies of them, so far (why!!!) plus some other stuff - now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response.

 

Have a look at this threadhttp://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html#post1868913

 

 

Barclaycard mastercard (used to be Morgan Stanley): sent T&Cs only. Now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response.

 

As above

 

Halifax: Sent Agreement and T&Cs and a very hostile letter. Agreement has no sigs (claim SI 1557), address is incorrect at time of inception, charges listed as £12, not £25 as was the case, credit limit wrong, shows current limit not original..... the list goes on. Letter sent highlighting irregularities and confirming that it is not a "true copy" or "executed"

 

Again, send the above cpr letter

 

MBNA (used to be AOL): no reply to date. Had a reply to the SAR request but nothing on the original CCA request.

 

Send an account in dispute letter re: the CCA

 

Capital One: Sent blank agreement and current T&Cs. Now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response. SAR request submitted, no response, to date (still within 40 days)

 

Mint: CCA requested, no response (still within 12 working days).

 

You mention that the 30 days has gone, where does that come from, I have read extensively but not picked that up. I could be in overload as I am trying to get through the 757 pages of the Tamadus epic thread, at the moment - on page 312 now.

 

Also, are there any other threads that you could recommend as a source of good current info, save me trawling through them all.

 

Thanks for the reply

 

Stubie

 

See the bits in red

[Stubie]

Thanks for the help and advice, Will read up and post when I get the next consignment of junk mail from the CCCs:)

[Stubie]

Hi Everyone,

 

One final thing. MBNA have asked for a copy of a document with my signature (passort, driving license etc). Where would I stand if I were to supply a photoshopped passport.

 

If I took the amended document to court as evidence of the fraud, would I leave myself open to a counterclaim along the same lines.

 

What does anyone think?

 

Stubie

[Stubie]

To anyone passing.

 

I have received a couple of alleged agreements sent to me, one blank, the other is a "blue peter collage".

 

Since bothe of these can easily be shown to have been modified after the fact, does that mean they are unexecuted since I have not signed the amended form?

 

I'm aware of S82 of the CCA but was just wondering how this becomes the executed agreement since an agreement only becomes executed at the time it is signed by both parties.

 

How enforcible are post correction/ amendment agreements?

 

Thanks

 

S

[yoda1312]

Subbing with interest

[silverfox1961]

If you can prove they are different from the original then you should protect them and should it go to court you could show fraud

[Stubie]

If you can prove they are different from the original then you should protect them and should it go to court you could show fraud

 

Hi SF,

 

That's what I thought.

 

They have to be different as both have charges as £12. I can show from statements as old as 2002 that the charges levied at that time were higher, so I can prove they have changed, even without the SAR responses, although this might prove it beyond doubt. I think I need to read up on the Fraud Act.

 

So what is the purpose of s82? just T&C's and ancilliary docs. They would still need the original executed agreement to show the necessary authority to vary these, I think.

 

Stubie

Edited May 6, 2009 by Stubie
second thoughts

[AA99]

Stubie, this whole website is about banks and credit card companies. Have a look at the thread for each of the individual companies and I'm sure you'll find a lot of answers there..... ie, your Barclaycard accounts, look here Barclaycard - The Consumer Forums

etc.

[Stubie]

Stubie, this whole website is about banks and credit card companies. Have a look at the thread for each of the individual companies and I'm sure you'll find a lot of answers there..... ie, your Barclaycard accounts, look here Barclaycard - The Consumer Forums

etc.

 

I know but I can't read it all:sad:

 

My head is ringing after 1000+ pages of CAG plus other forums and I'm on my 13th act (not including SI's) + the OH telling me (120+Db) that I'm spending too much time on the computer.

 

OK, get a grip:)........deep breaths.................aaaah!!!

 

Will try to research some more but if you can point me at a smaller target than the whole site I would be eternally grateful.

 

Stubie

[cdflad]

Hey Guys,

I have also received a letter from HSBC requesting a signature.

 

I quote

" A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under sub section 1 unless he has received a request in writing.

Further a data controller is not obliged to comply with a request under this section unless he is supplied with such information as he may reasonably require in order to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making the request and to locate the information which that perdon needs.

 

The bank policy is to establish the identity of the customer via a signature such that it can be compared with any other document (eg application ) that we hold."

 

The letter goes on to say that I must re-apply using a signature. They also sent me back my £ 1 postal order.

What should I do. I really need to get the excessive chrarges back form them.

[Stubie]

Hey Guys,

I have also received a letter from HSBC requesting a signature.

 

I quote

" A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under sub section 1 unless he has received a request in writing.

Further a data controller is not obliged to comply with a request under this section unless he is supplied with such information as he may reasonably require in order to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making the request and to locate the information which that perdon needs.

 

The bank policy is to establish the identity of the customer via a signature such that it can be compared with any other document (eg application ) that we hold."

 

The letter goes on to say that I must re-apply using a signature. They also sent me back my £ 1 postal order.

What should I do. I really need to get the excessive chrarges back form them.

 

Hi,

 

Sorry, I'm a bit confused, what did you actually apply for?

 

You say the data controller replied but you mention a payment of £1. If you applied for an SAR then it should be £10 or £1 for a CCA 74 s78(1) request. Assuming its a typo, I sent a copy of a document scanned at low resolution so the sig is pixelated. You could put a line through it as SilverFox suggested or a coffee cup ring (oops, sorry) or in some way make the signature recognisable but not cut and pasteable.

 

I remember reading on the OFT site that there are a number of means by which you can confirm your identity, one of which is your birth cert (which has no sig but is considered acceptable by the OFT.

 

Try to avoid giving them anything that they can copy onto an agreement.

 

stubie

[cdflad]

Hello Stubie,

 

I sent off a request for a CCA to all 9 of my creditors.

 

HSBC sent the data controller letter back to me.

 

I have not yet sent SAR to them but will be doing so because they have since last week made 59 calls to me sent me final demand letters and returned the other 2 £1 postal orders.

 

I anticipate a somewhat 'cold' period in my relationship with HSBC, but then again as a Welshman I aint givin up. My threards have been merged by some kind man onto the HSBC thread. I am a newboy here so not always sure if I follow ettiquette.

 

Cheers for reply.

Lad

[Stubie]

Hello Stubie,

 

I sent off a request for a CCA to all 9 of my creditors.

 

HSBC sent the data controller letter back to me.

 

I have not yet sent SAR to them but will be doing so because they have since last week made 59 calls to me sent me final demand letters and returned the other 2 £1 postal orders.

 

I anticipate a somewhat 'cold' period in my relationship with HSBC, but then again as a Welshman I aint givin up. My threards have been merged by some kind man onto the HSBC thread. I am a newboy here so not always sure if I follow ettiquette.

 

Cheers for reply.

Lad

A fellow welshman...welcome indeed.

 

[Stubie]

Can you post a link to your HSBC thread and I will do and have a look.

 

This site is too huge to trawl through, these days

 

Stubie