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Mediation/Constructive dismissal?


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I have been off work for five months now due to (diagnosed) depression and stress caused by bullying at work by my boss. In short he has over the last year singled me out by putting inaccurate documents on my personnel file quoting things I have not said (and can prove), moved me from an (unpaid) position of merit to a lower one whilst I was off sick and has done various things to try and embarrass and demean me in front of other work colleagues (an example being-Following a conversation that a few colleagues and I had regarding the quality of footwear our company had provided, which were poor, he set up a meeting, only myself, with O.H. for my "excessively sweaty feet". This is how petty he is. Note-I dont have sweaty feet and they have replaced the boots as they were "unsuitable")

I have been asking for months for a mediation meeting and was at first told to "come back to work and see how I get on" which I find unacceptable as Im taking a risk with my health. I have finally managed to arrange a mediation meeting for this week but have been told that regardless of the outcome I will have to return to work with him the following day. I just wanted to know if anyone has any advice? I am seriously thinking of resigning and wondered if I could claim constructive dismissal? Also if anybody knows of any other things I can ask/try then I would appreciate it as I am at the end of my teather. Thanks in advance.

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Firstly, could i say that i'm really sorry for what you are going through. I have been in this position myself some years ago and can relate to what you are going through.

Are you with a union? I kept a detailed log of what was happening to me (as did 2 other colleagues, and got fantastic advice from my union.

I finally went to an employment tribunal which we eventually won with substantial compensation for constructive dismissal.

If you are with a union, please see asap with a log of what is happening to you. My union offers free legal advice so it's well worth looking into.

All the best with this.

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Forgot to add, if your not with a union (i would say to join one as soon as poss) and you go ahead with the mediation meeting, ask a colleague to come along with you as a 'second pair of ears' on the talk. Sometimes there's an unequal balance in meetings (your boss and maybe someone on his/her side). Also request meetings in writing (on boths sides) as to what the meeting is about and who is to attend. This way you have a paper trial of what is happening. I do hope your boss takes on board any problems that can be fairly sorted.

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I would also consider submitting a grievance...at least then everything will be in writing should you need it at a later date.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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Thanks for the replies.

I am not in a Union. We do have H.R. who advise on these things and when I mentioned raising a greivance they basically told me that even if i won the greivance I would still have to work with the guy and it would probably make our working relationship worse!! They then told me they didnt think I had grounds to raise one. The company just seem to be trying to brush things under the carpet.

I have asked for a transfer to a new location or department but they have refused. I can feel the pressure building this week as they expect me to go back into work the day after the meeting. I am just considering handing my notice in after the meeting.

Things arent made any easier with the current economic climate and the lack of jobs....add to that the fact that I now have a poor attendance record for this year due to sickness and things start to look really bleak.

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Sorry forgot to ask......Is it possible to raise a greivance after I have handed my notice in?? I know they take a lot of time and really dont think I could work with him for months with it hanging over me. Thanks again

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Sorry forgot to ask......Is it possible to raise a greivance after I have handed my notice in?? I know they take a lot of time and really dont think I could work with him for months with it hanging over me. Thanks again

 

 

I don't believe you can as it would be an Employment Tribunal you would have to go to.

 

Claiming constructive dismissal is also difficult if you haven't exhaused their internal grievance procedures.

 

Actually, I would be inclined to say that your employer pre-judging the outcome of your grievance is a grievance in itself!! How on earth can they reach that conclusion without undertaking proper and thorough investigations?!!

 

Submit your grievance...in the circumstances it appears you have nothing to lose and it will help support any future claims.

 

Your employer also has a duty of care to you and should not be placing you in an environment that is potentially detrimental to your health.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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Can I just say that YOU decide if you have grounds to raise a grievance, not your employers. If you raise an official grievance, they have no choice but to investigate the grievance. They decide if there is enough grounds to uphold the greivance after they have fully investigated it, but they cannot tell you that you have no grounds to submit one. In addition, look at the bits from your post that I have highlighted in bold with corresponding numbers:

when I mentioned raising a greivance they basically told me that even if i won the greivance #1. I would still have to work with the guy and it would probably make our working relationship worse!! They then told me they didnt think I had grounds to raise one. The company just seem to be trying to brush things under the carpet.

#2. I have asked for a transfer to a new location or department but they have refused.

 

#1. This could be construed as an attempt to encourage you to not raise a grievance by giving a pre-judged outcome ("They said even if I won the gievance I would still have to work with the guy") and heightening your anxiety about the situation by instilling fear ("and it would probably make our working relationship worse"). They cannot pre judge the outcome of a grievance without having undertaken an investigation, as Welshmam states. They also cannot tell you that no matter what the outcome of a meeting in the future that you will have to attend work the next day when you are currently certified sick as they do not know what will happen during the course of that meeting, or what evidence would/could be submitted. That is not mediation, that's dictation.

 

#2. You have put forward suggestions which may ease the situation, see you making a return to work and reduce your need for making a grievance. What to do, is when you raise an official grievance, you can also put into that grievance what you would like the outcome to be, or how matters can be eased. State that - a relocation to a different department. If the grievance is found in your favour, or even if not but it is clear the two of you cannot work together and they refuse a relocation of one of you, without giving reasonable explanation as to why; this will stand you in good stead for a possible tribunal at a later stage, as it shows that although you feel your boss should be sufficiently disciplined for his behaviour toward you, that you are willing to be moved yourself if it will ease the situation and allow you to continue your employment.

 

They can suspend you or terminate your employment if you remain on sick leave for an extended period on the grounds of capability, however if the reason you are off work is due to pressures at your place of work which have not been addressed despite a grievance, it is different, but you have to be able to prove that if you are dismissed unfairly.

 

Whether you are dismissed, or whether you claim constructive dismissal, you need to have explored all other avenues first to find favour with an employment tribunal. If for example, you do not submit a formal grievance (and follow the procedures such as appeal ect if the outcome is unsatisfactory to you), and then file for constructive dismissal you will be in a very sticky spot. Constructive dismissal is one of the hardest things to win at an employment tribunal, even with supporting evidence. If you go in there having not raised or followed grievance procedures, then I'm afraid it will not put any claim for constructive dismissal in good stead from the outset.

 

Hope this makes things a bit clearer for you, however there are people on this forum who are far more knowledgable in employment law.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Hi sorry to see you go through this,Been there done it my company dragged it out for 8 months and took no action against the people who did things to me they should have been sacked i got know real support from the union,Take your friend to the meeting with you but write everything down what they say because if you leave and do go to court they will lie these people have no ethics or honesty dont trust them if you know your telling the truth stick to your guns,Best regards shifty,

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Thanks again.

Had a phone call from the girl who will be taking the meeting early this evening. She explained the process. Two things have sent me through the roof though......She explained that minutes or detailed notes will not be taken during the meeting and also that any past history between myself and my boss will not be discussed. When I asked what exactly that meant she explained that she wasnt there to decide who is right or wrong but is just going find a way to get me back into work. So basically I wont get to air my complaints. Again when I asked about this she told me that my concerns had been heard and dealt with by the "case study unit". Which they havent! I have never spoken to anyone from this unit. When I told her this she seemed confused as to why but said she couldnt get involved as she has to be neutral for the meeting on Friday. I tried to ring somebody from the case study unit but it went to answerphone and they havent returned my call. Which basically leaves me with nothing. I am to have a meeting in which I cant air my grievance and then am expected back to work on saturday. I cant extend my sick note as I will soon go onto half pay. I am absolutely distraught. I will have to hand my notice in now and god knows what will happen. I feel really let down by the system as once again they have just brushed it all under the carpet. I feel like smashing the place up! He is getting away with it again. Gutted.

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Hi any meeetings with management minutes should be taken,i would not go into that meeting alone they will white wash everything and make you feel your in the wrong and the bully will be protected by them,if you do leave start legal proceedings within three months or you will be out of time,

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I cant extend my sick note as I will soon go onto half pay. I am absolutely distraught. I will have to hand my notice in now and god knows what will happen.

 

I don't understand why you feel you have to hand your notice in MG??

 

Don't do anything rash!!!

 

Half pay is better than IB or JSA surely??

 

Also, you pay less tax on half pay so it isn't quite as bad as it first seems.

 

If they are looking to terminate your employment on capability grounds then I believe that you should get some payment in lieu of notice. Also, I'm sure that there has to be a hearing before this is decided.

 

I really don't understand what the purpose of the meeting is if you are unable to discuss what is causing your illness!

 

I would be inclined to ask for a short postponement and request that they send you a letter detailing EXACTLY what this meeting is for and also confirming that they have prohibited you from discussing the issues with your boss.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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HI,

I had my meeting and guess what.....it was a circus. The guy lied throughout. When I cahllenged this his reply was "Well I will take your word for it" or "Im not perfect and make mistakes" or even "As I am you boss I dont have to answer to you". He then accused me of "nitpicking" The mediator made no reference to his "mistakes" nor the fact that at one point he cahnged his answer to one question half way through because he knew he was in trouble. At the end of the meeting all I was told is that he knew he had "perhaps gone about things in the wrong way" and that in future he would seek advice before acting. There was also the issue of a document he place on my personnel file that was inaccurate as he had made things up that he quoted me as saying (which I can prove I didnt) to which I was promised that "he would review this" if I put the disputed bits in an email to him when I return to work. So all in all I got nothing from the meeting. I am really down about this and have had a really bad weekend. I know that if I put a formal Grievance in it could take months. I feel that there is no way I can go back because the meeting just re-enforced the fact that he lies through his teeth.

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hi did you take a friend in that meeting with you to take notes and was any minutes taken by them,i told you these people lie and not to trust them your at the point where i was if you make a written complaint you will go through there procedures and they will drag it out to bring you down and make you give up,Or you can leave and put in a claim for constructive dismissal but you will have to exhaust there complaints procedures 1st or it will be used against you in court,

 

good look

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