Help with how to find out in credit card agreememnt is unenforcable

[buzzboy]

Help!!

I have Gold credit with the Co Op it was taken out approximately 7 years ago and I want to find out if it is an unenforcable agreement. i am new to this forum and have spent the last two hours trawling through numerous other threads trying to find out how to get started and where to find templates etc. but I have to admit I'm stumped! so any guidence on where to look would be appreciated. I'm just crap on computors., and just seem to be reading posts that are some way along the process and so I'm at a loss as to where to start.

i've no payment problems with the card as yet but they do keep contactng me periodically to tell me that they are reducing my limit presumably because i rarely if ever use the card and this has really P***ED me off!

so if I can I'd like to stick it to them!

So all help needed and appreciated

Buzzboy

ps current balance £1700

cheers!

[cerberusalert]

Basically an enforceable agreement must contain the 'prescribed terms' see; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

[cds]

scan and post it up

 

cds

[buzzboy]

Thanks guys but I don't have acopy of my original paperwork as it has been quite a few years since taking the card out.

from what I can gather from other threads I need to write to them requesting a copy of the original terms and conditions-----Is That correct?

and can they charge me for this information?

sorry for appearing thick but I'm very green with this sort of thing!

Thanks

Buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

Send them this recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully

[buzzboy]

Cerber

You're a star

Thanks I''ll do that

By the way where did you get the picture of me from?

cheers

Buzboy

[cerberusalert]

It's from my collection of threat monkeys

 

 

[buzzboy]

I'll get the request sent off as soon as.

Is the statutory time 30 days?

Thanks

buzzboy

Also thanks to cds as i said I can't scan anything as I've not got anything yet

[cerberusalert]

No they have 12 working days to provide it from receipt of your request. Send it recorded delivery & print your name don't sign with your normal signature.

[buzzboy]

thanks

will do

buzzboy

[buzzboy]

Cerberusalert

thanks for your guidence I've posted the CCA request today (recorded delivery)

Is there a step by step 'what if' guide any where on the site?

(BTW my grandaughter reckons that I'm a dead ringer for your 'Director of Threat-O-Grams!)

Buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

Is there a step by step 'what if' guide any where on the site?

Not that I've seen, but there would be a fair few scenarios it would have to cover.

[buzzboy]

I have tracked and confirmed delivery of the CCA request and as I understand it they now haves 12 working days to reply ( i've followed your advice and not signed it, just printed my name)

If they are unable to provide me with a copy of the original agreement or only send a copy of the app. does it then mean that it is an unenforcable agreement?

or am I being too simplistic?

Cheers

Buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

If they are unable to provide me with a copy of the original agreement or only send a copy of the app. does it then mean that it is an unenforcable agreement?

 

If they don't provide it within the prescribed time limit they cannot enforce payment, add interest or pass it to a third party until they do provide it. It doesn't mean that the agreement is unenforceable in itself.

 

If they send an application form and it doesn't contain the prescribed terms then it would be unenforceable.

[buzzboy]

cerberusalert

It's been 12 days since they received my CCA request sholud I wait a couple more days to allow for thepost?

Also I have received a letter from them today stating that as from July 2009 they are withdrawing Advantage Gold Cards and will be upgrading holders to the Advantage Platinum Card will this affect my position?

(you have no idea how much I hate the Co-Op!!!)

Thanks for your help

Buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

Also I have received a letter from them today stating that as from July 2009 they are withdrawing Advantage Gold Cards and will be upgrading holders to the Advantage Platinum Card will this affect my position?

No it doesn't alter anything, send them this;

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested, any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Print name do not sign

[buzzboy]

Cerberusalert

I really appreciate you help

I'll do that today, What's the next stage ?

Cheers

Buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

What's the next stage

To be honest there's several things that can happen next, but nothing to worry about.

 

They'll either produce an enforceable CCA or they won't basically. If they don't they cannot legally take any enforcement action.

[buzzboy]

cerberusalert

Today I have received for my Credit Card account photocopies of two pages that appear from the original application, they contain the usual details (name, address, some mortgage details, who I work for and income etc)

then my signature, with the usual ''I have read the terms and conditions and cancel notice etc

But theyhave sent nothing with interest rates or metod or frequency of payments on.

And for the flexible loan(also with the Co-Op) they have sent me a reduced size copy of a page with my signature on counter signed by themselves there is a lot of print on the page but it is impossible to make out in any great detail what is written I have 'blown' the document up but still no joy. the page bears the headinG 'The Co-Operative bank flexible account credit agreement regulated by the consumer creitd act 1974' ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SIGN FOR THE AMOUNT YOU WANT.

It looks like another application to me but the print is eligible.

What are my next steps?

thanks

buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

They are required to send you a legible copy under the act, send them this;

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a legible true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The correspondence you have sent in your reply, does not constitute a legible true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a legible true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a legible true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any legible signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

[buzzboy]

Cerberusalert

That's brilliant ...thanks

what about the credit card where they've sent two pages of the application (sorry if I'm being a pest)

Buzzboy

[cerberusalert]

You can send the letter to both. Just remove the word 'legible' in the one you send in reply to the application form where there were no prescribed terms.

[buzzboy]

Are there any solicitors that will be prepared to take up these cases on a no fee basis (if the lender won't play ball) seeing as a lot of the work has already been done?

They nearly all seem to be linked to some claims firm or other