welcome finance-1st credit

[postggj]

dont worry about court etc

 

ill be very surprised any thing from a dca ends all the way in court,

 

any body can issue a claim to intimidate

 

a lot of us have had court claims thrown at us and we now wait for the postman, not dred the posties,

 

before long you will be dca bashing

[michelle40leeds]

they do make me worry,cos they have come across as been very intimidating,especially when one guy said to me from 1st credit,that he believed welcome more than me,that i owe this debt,n so he was basically calling me a liar....!

has anyone ever actually got one over on welcome?.. or has a debt ever been written off?.. any idea?...may i also add that i was making payments to welcome when i closed my bank account down,i was going into one of their main offices n paying cash to them...! but im one for not saving receipts...i'm angry at myself really for not saving all the stuff from years ago...!

[Toulose LeDebt]

when i gave the car back to welcome the manager said to me why are you voluntary handing it in michelle cos you've paid most of it n it's rightfully yours but i dint want it anymore...n he kept saying are you sure you want to hand it back to us....!

n this is why am confused if it was my car then why are they demanding money off me...?..did i make a mistake of handing the car back,after they said it was rightfully mine at the time...

from all convo's i remember two week ago when 1 st credit rang me i said to them im not paying so please ring welcome i explained to him that welcome said the car was mine... n i should take welcome to court.not them demand money...through you... the guy at first credit said to me were not bothered if you take welcome to court as long as we get the 4 grand this gets me mad cos i hang up on 1st credit n then they ring back a few days later.. n tell me if im not paying then fair enough n then they just ring a few days later again n waffle on about how were gonna work out at me paying this money they'll say things like were trying to avoid this debt going to court blah blah.

 

Just to clear a few things up here.

 

The car was not rightfully yours until you made the final payment.

What they meant was 'why are you handing the car back michelle because now we can't screw you for thousands of pounds interest and any charges we can add along the way'.

 

As you VT'ed the agreement and returned the car any interest (and there would have been plenty) due after the VT'ing was no longer due to Welcome.

 

If the total agreement was £5k and you paid £2500 and VT'ed then you were all square and did not owe them a penny.

 

If the total agreement was £5k and you paid £2499 and VT'ed then you owed them £1

 

If the total agreement was £5k and you paid £2501 and VT'ed then the £1 is seen as a gift and you did not owe them a penny.

 

In all instances the other £2500 no longer was due under the agreement.

The car was yours when you paid the last £1 of the £5,000

 

If it gets messy your bank statements and DVLA records will prove your case.

 

Listen to what people are saying do not talk to them on the phone refuse to answer the security questions.

 

You owe Welcome/First Crudit 50% of the total value of the agreement MINUS every penny you paid them I suspect this will produce a minus total when the figures are available in which case you owe nothing.

[michelle40leeds]

Just to clear a few things up here.

 

The car was not rightfully yours until you made the final payment.

What they meant was 'why are you handing the car back michelle because now we can't screw you for thousands of pounds interest and any charges we can add along the way'.

 

As you VT'ed the agreement and returned the car any interest (and there would have been plenty) due after the VT'ing was no longer due to Welcome.

 

If the total agreement was £5k and you paid £2500 and VT'ed then you were all square and did not owe them a penny.

 

If the total agreement was £5k and you paid £2499 and VT'ed then you owed them £1

 

If the total agreement was £5k and you paid £2501 and VT'ed then the £1 is seen as a gift and you did not owe them a penny.

 

In all instances the other £2500 no longer was due under the agreement.

The car was yours when you paid the last £1 of the £5,000

 

If it gets messy your bank statements and DVLA records will prove your case.

 

Listen to what people are saying do not talk to them on the phone refuse to answer the security questions.

 

You owe Welcome/First Crudit 50% of the total value of the agreement MINUS every penny you paid them I suspect this will produce a minus total when the figures are available in which case you owe nothing.

 

 

well i know for a fact that the agreement i signed didn't total to 5,000...cos like i said i knew what i could n couldn't afford,roughly i'd say it was around the 3,000 maybe a little more.....! cos if it would have totalled 5 grand i would of cancelled it..

[michelle40leeds]

[michelle40leeds]

update-just had a phone call from 1st credit.exactly 5 mins ago... and my mum answered the phone,i was listening in n the guy at 1st credit asked my mum if he could speak to me,my mum said no she is not here, call back at 2.30..n then he said,well tell her to ring me,my mum said no.. she does not want to ring you,you ring her n then he said why can't she call me?.. n mum said cos she does not want to....! so ring back at 2.30 like i said,..he went quiet n then hung up.mums calling him a cheeky..b*****d for how he spoke to her...lol...

[michelle40leeds]

if he rings back at 2.30 do i just tell him to deal with all this in writing?...i need to know what exactly to say to him....

[Toulose LeDebt]

Hi Michelle I've written and adapted a few letters for you. All but the very last one you need to print off and send yourself recorded delivery asap. You will need to enclose a £1 postal order within this package and make sure you keep the royal mail receipt safe.

 

Letter 1 is a cover letter for you.

Letter 2 is a general complaint setting out your reason why you feel you do not owe the debt.

Letter 3 is a CCA request

Letter 4 is a do not phone letter!

Letter 5 is a Do not visit letter!

 

Letter 6 is for your mother to send. Again send it recorded. Leave them in no doubt that if they continue behaving in this awful manner they will be in a lot of trouble. I am disgusted that they have tried to get your mothers card details to pay a debt they falsely claim is due from you. This is dreadful behaviour and when you've sent these off you should get a bit of breathing space from the slimeballs and then it will be time for both you and your mother to file a complaint with TS and the OFT. This company are probably the worst out there and need to be closed down. The process already appears to be in motion but none of us can afford for the OFT to get complacent. They have to know what a bunch of scumbags 1st Crudit are from the very top to the very bottom of the company.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

Sir.

 

Please find enclosed the following:

 

General letter of explanation and complaint.

A request for documentation made under CCA 1974.

Statutory payment in the form of a postal order for £1

Notice to cease harrassment by telephone.

Notice to forbid visits to my address.

 

Please take notice that these documents have been sent recorded delivery and tracked via Royal Mail and that proof of postage is sufficient evidence to a Court that these documents have been lawfully served.

These documents contain important and legally binding information and in some cases subject you to strict timescales of action. I suggest you treat them as a matter of urgency, any failure to comply or produce documentation may result in you facing civil and/or criminal action in the Courts and might seriously prejudice your ability to produce and use certain documentation in the event of a civil enforcement action being brought through the County Court system by myself.

 

Please also take notice that using the enclosed postal order for anything other than the purpose for which it has been presented yourselves is likely to constitute a criminal offence.

 

Please also take notice that I and my family have contributed to a general complaint about the conduct of your Company during the times you have been in contact with ourselves. This complaint along with copies of all correspondence, records of telephone calls is being handed over to both Trading Standards and the OFT, two bodies who I believe have a particular interest in the conduct of your company.

 

Please send me by return the following.

 

Itemised acknowledgement of these documents.

A copy of your complaints procedure and contact address for your complaints department.

 

Yours.

 

 

Sir:

 

I am appalled by the treatment meted out to myself, my 11 year old son and my elderly mother by representatives of your company and shall be pursuing complaints in the matter to the highest level with all the regulatory authorities asking that they review your suitability to hold a consumer credit licence.

 

Your representatives allege I owe you a sum in the region of £4,000 relating to an account originally operated by a company called Welcome. I have been hounded by telephone and my elderly mother has been harrassed in an attempt to force her into making card payments on an account which is not even hers.

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company for the following reason:

 

My original account with the OC was up to date and had just a few months left to run when I voluntarily terminated the agreement and returned the car to Welcome. I gave them the keys and the logbook and signed the vehicle over to them in early 2005.

Since at the time of VT'ing the car I had paid far more than 50% of the total agreement value then the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 applied to the agreement.

For your convenience I reproduce this section verbatim.

 

100. Liability of debtor on termination of hire-purchase etc. agreement.

— (1) Where a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement is terminated under section 99 the debtor shall be liable, unless the agreement provides for a smaller payment, or does not provide for any payment, to pay to the creditor the amount (if any) by which one-half of the total price exceeds the aggregate of the sums paid and the sums due in respect of the total price immediately before the termination.

 

In English this means that all liability by myself under the agreement was met by myself when I returned the car. There can be no more interest accruable, no more penalty charges, non payment charges, capital sum repayments due because at time of voluntary termination I had paid in excess of 50% of the total agreement.

 

I suggest you consult a legally qualified person such as a solicitor at this stage as the implications are immense for your company.

 

I do not owe 1st Credit one peny under the original agreement.

I do not owe Welcome one penny under the original agreement.

 

This is of course eminently provable upon production of banking statements for the period and the production (albeit forced under the Data Protection Act 1998 and CPR) of Welcome's own documentation in the matter.

The burden of proof however is upon you at this stage and I eagerly anticipate your supplying me the documentation which proves I owe you the huge sum claimed. I anticipate this will cause you ore than a little difficulty to execute since such documentation does not exist

 

The law is unequivocal.

 

As is the Administration of Justice Act 1970 which makes it a statutory offence to pursue a debt under certain circumstances. I think you will agree that pursuing to the point of harrassent and well beyond on a debt which has been contrived wholly through breaching Sec 100(1) of the CCA 1974 is likely to be taken as absolute proof in Court that an offence under Sec 40(1)(a) of TAOJA 1970 has occurred. This is of course a criminal offence and will be prosecuted through the criminal courts by the CPS with a criminal record and fine awaiting upon conviction. As a company I would expect the Directors to be held culpable and would suggest that with all the other problems 1st Credit are experiencing with the licensing and financial regulatory bodies at the moment a criminal conviction could terminally affect any lingering hopes you might harbour of renewing your consumer credit licence.

 

I suggest you give serious thought to extinguishing any alleged debt in a manner which means it can never be passed on or sold to another company, removing any adverse data published about me with any third parties and destroying all records you hold on me. A letter of apology to my mother might go some long way to showing there is an element of respectability about your company before the OFT and the FOS come knocking your door.

 

I am only prepared to deal with your Company in writing from now on, I shall construe any further telephone calls in the matter as harrassment.

 

I have clearly set out that I dispute the alleged debt in its entirety and supplied valid reasons for disputing this debt.

 

I think we both know how the OFT will look upon any failure of your company to investigate this valid dispute, notwithstanding any other breaches of OFT guidelines and CPUTR you have already incurred.

 

I suggest you also google 'Welcome' and 'Cattles' you will find they do have somewhat of a history of debts that only exist on paper not in substance, I believe they have recently lost a board of directors over this 'creative' practice.

 

I await confirmation that you have checked the facts with the original creditor and closed this account properly and permanently.

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

 

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

 

Account Number: XXXXXXX

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Please treat this also as a formal complaint, and send me a copy of your company complaints procedure.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[NAME HERE] (type don't sign)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

I also draw your attention to the fact that since no Court Judgment granting enforcement on this account has been nor ever can be awarded in your favour any attempt by any representative of your company to threaten me with Bailliffs and the removal of my property is not only hollow and entirely devoid of substance but also a breach of OFT guidelines on Debt collection practises. I have made the OFT aware of these threats as has my mother who has been similarly threatened.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Sir.

 

I am the mother of one of your so called customers, at no time have I ever held an account with your company nor have you ever had lawful reason to contact me in respect of any debt owed by myself or any other person.

This has not however stopped your company representatives from subjecting me to an extended period of harrassment by telephone with threats of Bailliffs and demands for my credit card details in order that you might take payment for a third parties alleged debt from my bank account.

I have sought advice in this distressing matter and have been informed that not only is your behaviour strictly against the OFT guidelines on debt collection but also quite likely constitute criminal behaviour not only of

harrassment but also more serious offences of attempting to extort money.

 

I demand that you do not contact me any further in this matter and serve

you warning that any communication from yourself in respect of any third

parties debts or demands for money will from now on be viewed as

harrassment by yourselves and will be duly reported to my local Police on

each instance.

 

I have no desire to enter into correspondence with youselves in the matter which I believe would normally involve my exhausting your internal complaints procedure as a first recourse. I belive that your insistence on involving and threatening myself and my family for a debt which does not even exist despite being told this repeatedly is sufficient proof of your disregard and contempt for the public.

 

I have instead chosen to contact Trading Standards and The OFt directly in this matter I would expect them to monitor the situation closely since I

believe both have expressed great interest in your Company and the

contemptuous way you conduct your grubby sordid business.

 

 

[Toulose LeDebt]

if he rings back at 2.30 do i just tell him to deal with all this in writing?...i need to know what exactly to say to him....

 

Say

'I refuse to answer your security questions and it is a breach of the Data Protection Act if you continue the phone call without ascertaining my identity. Good-bye'.

 

or 'four letter word of choice-off'.

[michelle40leeds]

thank you very much i shall print off those letters and send them off....x

[babybear39]

Report 1st crud and welcome (for using 1st crud) tomorrow to TS, the OFT and the ICO for breaching OFT guidlines, the CPUTR and the DPA. Your mum should report them to the police for harassment.

[michelle40leeds]

hi guys iv'e just had phone contact with 1st credit who have told me that they have bought the debt off welcome finance n that's why they are persusing me for money,one advisor hung up on me when i told him to get me every signed agreement,statements etc for this car,,,n another said to me that they would put my account on hold until all details were recieved from welcome,now they claim i was paying welcome 291.00 per month for the car,work that out over two years of paying,yet she claims am owing 4 grand, which is interest...surely i must have paid the car off at 291.00 a month the original agreement dint even total to 6 grand...! wtf are welcome n 1st credit trying to do here..where's the interest come from...

[42man]

I'd also advise you to only talk to this company if you are recording the calls....get a CCA request off to 1st Credit !!