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michelle40leeds

welcome finance-1st credit

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hi all i'm new here..so thought i'd start by saying hello....ok i need some advice about welcome finance...! i bought a car off them in 2001,n i paid nearly 2 n a half thousand off the car i only had about 6 months left to pay..anyway i voluntary gave the car back to welcome cos i couldnt afford to pay it any longer all my wages were going to welcome n i'd nothing to live on,n i also told them that the car had cost me alot of money in repairs n work doing on it as i'd had trouble with it from about 6 months into the agreement.the guy in the welcome office told me i'd no reason to hand it back as it was rightfully mine but i told him to take it.my brother went with me n asked them to find a record of all my payments as to breakdown the ouststanding figure,guess what welcome said they couldnt drag up payments paid from 2 yrs ago,they said they don't keep records of it..anyway i dint hear anything for ages,but now over the last few months of this year ive had 1st credit call me acting on behalf of welcome telling me i owe 4.000 pounds i asked how come it was all this when welcome had told me i'd nearly paid it off..they said it was interest added on,n could i pay all the 4.000 in full i told 1st credit they aint getting a penny cos i owe welcome nothing,but they ring all the time even asking my 11 yr old son to pass on messages to me,or my mum...n theyr'e threatning me with bailiffs or someone coming n demanding the whole amount in full to my doorstep..sorry if this is a long message..1st credit have told me to take welcome to court over the car payments issue.. but they still want this 4 grand off me 1st credit.. all the money i paid for the car is now dead money n i'm fed up of argueing on the phone with 1st credit.. what can i do,cos welcome have sent this company a statement claiming i owe 4 grand yet when my bro asked them to in the office as ive explained above they couldnt find my old payments yet they sent 1st credit a statement of what i owe...! they told me they would take money from my wages they have threatend me with allsorts,im only on part time wages.someone please help am sure if owt welcome owe me,money theyre cars are not even roadworthy

Edited by 42man

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In the first instance send off for a copy of your agreement to 1st Credit....you can find it here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter.html - you need to send this (don't hand sign it) with a £1 postal order and send it recorded delivery.....

 

In the meantime, send a SAR (Subject Access Request) to Welcome Finance....again you can find teh SAR request here - unfortunately this costs £10 but you'll certainly know more by making this request (they have to respond to your SAR in 40 days) send postal orders and send recorded..... - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca.html

 

May I also ask when the last time was that you made a payment towards or acknowledged the debt ? any chance it may be statute barred ?

 

I'll also move this thread to the debt collection forums...


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

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Stop speaking to 1st Crud on the phone & refuse to answer security questions if they ring...everything must be in writing only.

This lot are the "naughty boys" of the DCA industry at the moment, so report them to the OFT & trading standards.;)

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Ok

 

I Urge You Beg You Or Anything Please Please Do Not Speak To These People On The Phone.

 

Please With All Due Respect Start By Doing What Has Been Suggested.

 

O Bye The Way Welcome


Id quot circumiret, circumveniat.

 

please do not take my word for anything please do your own research All that i make comments on are done in good faith and to the best of my knowledge

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thank you all for your replies...do i need to ask first credit for a copy of my agreement for when i bought my car?... or do i ask welcome finance for it?..may i also add to my message as ive had so much to say that 1st credit have told me... but i didn't want to bore anyone with a long post... they told me i should file for bankrupcy so the debt would be written off,but also said it would affect any future credit,for me..giving me options after options,asking me to find relatives n friends to help me pay this 4 grand debt...they harrass my mum asking her for her debit card number as it's her bank i use for my wages etc,i don't have my own bank account..., they gave me so many different threatning actions they would use if i refused to pay this debt one guy i spoke to was very arrogant,n told me he believed welcome finance about the debt i owe rather than believe me.i'm at my wits end with constant phone calls,from them

Edited by michelle40leeds

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Nothing suprises me with 1st Crud..they are the worst DCA in the whole industry.

Report them to all the authorities..the sooner they are shut down the better.

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Home Newsroom Press releases 2009 20-09

Newsroom

Press releases 2009

OFT imposes requirements on 1st Credit over debt collection practices

20/09 25 February 2009

 

The OFT has taken action against 1st Credit Ltd requiring the company to improve its debt collection practices.

 

The OFT has imposed 'requirements' on 1st Credit using consumer credit powers, after an investigation found that some of its business processes and procedures failed to meet satisfactory standards. As a result, 1st Credit Ltd and its associated companies must:

 

refrain from issuing statutory demands warning of bankruptcy where it is unlikely that proceedings will be initiated

not discuss legal action with consumers unless it is likely that such action will be taken

ensure that sensitive cases involving vulnerable individuals, for example those with mental health or medical problems, are dealt with appropriately, and

ensure that all matters of concern raised with them by the free advice sector and other third parties are dealt with appropriately.

1st Credit must also report back to the OFT every six months providing statistics regarding the number of enforcement actions it has taken against debtors.

 

Failure to comply with the requirements could lead to a fine of up to £50,000 for each occurance and/or possible revocation of 1st Credit's consumer credit licence.

 

In 2008, following receipt of an application to vary an associated company's licence, the OFT carried out an in-depth investigation into the business practices and procedures employed by companies operating under the 1st Credit banner. In assessing the companies' competence to carry out consumer credit activities, the OFT conducted on-site visits and reviewed complaints received about 1st Credit Ltd's debt collection practices via consumers, Citizens Advice, CCCS and Consumer Direct.

 

The OFT raised concerns about its dissatisfaction with 1st Credit's behaviour and confirmed that it was looking to impose requirements to improve some of the company's business practices. 1st Credit acknowledged the problems and, as allowed under the Consumer Credit Act, proposed necessary changes to address the OFT's concerns.

 

Ray Watson, OFT Director for Consumer Credit, said:

 

'The OFT welcomes the constructive approach that 1st Credit has taken in responding to the OFT's concerns about its activities.

 

'Debt collection firms have a clear legal obligation to deal fairly and proportionately with consumers. This is more important than ever given the current economic climate, when people may already be suffering as a consequence of debt problems. We will continue to use our licensing powers to take firm action to protect consumers where debt collectors engage in oppressive behaviour or practices that fail to comply with our guidance.'

 

NOTES

 

1. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the Act) requires debt collectors, businesses that offer goods or services on credit and/or are involved in activities relating to credit or hire, to be licensed by the OFT.

 

2. In 2003 the OFT issued the Debt Collection Guidance which sets out minimum standards for those intending to collect debts. Failure to comply with the Debt Collection Guidance may call into question the fitness of a business to hold a consumer credit licence.

 

3. Following implementation of the OFT's new powers under the Consumer Credit Act 2006 on 6 April 2008, where the OFT is dissatisfied with any matter in connection with a business, a proposal to carry on a business or any other conduct by a licensee, associate or former associate, the OFT may impose 'requirements' on the licensed business. Requirements may require a business to do or not to do (or to cease doing) anything specified for the purposes connected with addressing the OFT's dissatisfaction, or securing that matters of the same or a similar kind do not arise.

 

4. If a single requirement is not complied with, the business concerned could be subject to a financial penalty of up to £50,000. The OFT may also refuse or revoke a licence if it decides that a trader is not fit to hold one.

 

5. Decisions to refuse or revoke a consumer credit licence or to impose a requirement or financial penalty are made by an adjudicating officer for and on behalf of the OFT. Before a decision is made, the adjudicating officer issues a notice to the trader. The trader is then given the opportunity to make representations to the adjudicating officer. In the event that the determination is adverse, the trader has the right of appeal against the determination to the Consumer Credit Appeals Tribunal.

 

6. Alternatively a business may make a proposal to address the OFT's dissatisfaction pursuant to section 33D(4) of the Act. In these circumstances the OFT is not required to issue a notice that it is minded to impose requirements if the proposed determination is in the same terms as the proposal made by the business. This was the process followed by 1st Credit.

 

7. The Consumer Credit Act 2006 requires the OFT to take into account 'credit competence' when assessing applications. Businesses operating in a high risk part of the market such as the debt collection sector are now subject to greater scrutiny at the licence application stage and greater monitoring throughout the life of the licence.

 

8. The fact that requirements have been imposed on 1st Credit Ltd appears on the consumer credit register. Download the requirements imposed (pdf 2.44 Mb). We will monitor 1st Credit Ltd's compliance with the requirements. Any complaints about non-compliance should be sent to:

 

Enquiries

Office of Fair Trading

Fleetbank House

2-6 Salisbury Square

London

EC4Y 8JX

 

Enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk

 

 

there you go


Id quot circumiret, circumveniat.

 

please do not take my word for anything please do your own research All that i make comments on are done in good faith and to the best of my knowledge

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From the sounds of it you had paid more than 50% of the value in which case Sec 100(1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974 is applicable:-

 

100. Liability of debtor on termination of hire-purchase etc. agreement.

— (1) Where a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement is terminated under section 99 the debtor shall be liable, unless the agreement provides for a smaller payment, or does not provide for any payment, to pay to the creditor the amount (if any) by which one-half of the total price exceeds the aggregate of the sums paid and the sums due in respect of the total price immediately before the termination.

 

In english this means that so long as you had paid 50% of the total price due then you had no further liability to Welcome in respect of the agreement.

 

Do you know if a 'VT' tag was placed on your credit record at the time?

(vt = voluntary termination).

 

What happened to the logbook did you sign it to welcome?

 

Do you have or can you get bank statements proving the amount paid?

 

If you paid over 50% Welcome were wrong to continue chasing for money or interest as legally you had absolutely no further liability towards them under the agreement and 1st Crudit have not got a leg to stand on in the matter.


You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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With regard to lst Credits' action when speaking to your mum, (they should not have been discussing your business with your mum - it is forbidden and they have broken the law), I would report them immediately to OFT, Trading Standards, FOS, and your local MP for a start.

 

They have NO powers at all to carry out any of their threats, they are powerless without a Court Order, and it sounds as thought they have no chance at all of getting one!

 

You could also tell BBC Watchdog, as they are following these antics very closely at the moment.


Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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Do you know if a 'VT' tag was placed on your credit record at the time?

(vt = voluntary termination).

 

What happened to the logbook did you sign it to welcome?

 

Do you have or can you get bank statements proving the amount paid?

 

If you paid over 50% Welcome were wrong to continue chasing for money or interest as legally you had absolutely no further liability towards them under the agreement and 1st Crudit have not got a leg to stand on in the matter.

__________________

You have the right to food money.

i wrote a letter to say i was handing back the car and i signed it in front of the manager in the welcome office,my brother was there as a witness when i handing in the letter it was then when welcome were telling me id no reason to voluntary hand my car in cos it was rightfully mine...but i just wanted them to have it back due to the hassle welcome had given me,...

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welcome finance sold the car at auction....i gave them everything belonging to the car,logbook etc....! i have nomore access to my old bank account and i always shreaded statements that i recieved from my bank...so is it my word against welcome,see what i don't get is welcome could not find me a statement of any payments i made to them yet 1st credit have a statemnt off welcome what they say i owe,,,!

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1sr credit reckon the 4.grand i owe is all the interest welcome have added on....it has also maddened me to know iv'e paid all that money for the car,and it's dead money cos even the originally agreement did not add up to 4.grand.....and i feel as though i am going to be having to pay back 4 grand,for something i haven't even got...

Edited by michelle40leeds

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Okay don't worry this appears to be eminently salvageable.

 

I think you need to do the following.

 

1) CCA 1st Credit. cost £1 this will probably result in them failing to produce the cca and the account being put on hold.

 

 

2) SAR Welcome Finance. (Demand those statements under law) and get a copy of the agreement. cost £10

 

3) SAR Your old bank and specifically request statements to cover the period in question. Cost £10

 

4) Establish whether at time of voluntary termination you had indeed paid 50% or more of the value of the agreement.

 

If yes then you do not owe a penny no matter what 1st Crud say.

 

Of course the alleged debt will be unenforceable in the event the CCA turns up but tbh it would be better for you if it does with an accompanying statement from Welcome.

 

You will in due course need to make formal complaints to both FOS and Trading Standards/ OFT.

 

My understanding is that both Welcome and 1st Credit are pursuing you for monies in breach of Section 100(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I think that's a good place to start from when replying.

 

Don't worry they cannot take you to Court without the agreement and if you get the agreement it will be game over for them.

 

Without Court enforcement they are powerless completely and utterly.

 

Please, please, please understand this as they will try very hard to convince you otherwise.

 

Interesting that they claim it's for interest and not capital repayment.

 

It wont be easy but you should get there in the end and the Caggers will guide you through the process.

 

Can you tell us the following as accurately as you can remember please?

 

1) Date of purchase.

2) Cost of car

3) Total cost of finance and period eg. 48 months

4) Date of VT

5) Total number of monthly payments made at £***

 

 

EDIT Meant to say don't worry you almost certainly will not be paying 1st Crud anything and if they mess you about too much they might be paying you.


You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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evenng michelle

 

welcome finance and 1st crud

thats a first

 

with out reading again, tell me when did you last make a payment on the vehicle

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guess what welcome said they couldnt drag up payments paid from 2 yrs ago,they said they don't keep records of it.

 

Less than six years, that's that one out the window PostGGj:(

 

Of course welcome would be breaking the law if they did not keep their records for a minimum period of six years after the account closes anyway.

 

(I hazard a guess Welcome and Cattles can't wait for bonfire night to come round though).

 

 

BTW M40L They CANNOT send Bailiffs round this is a blatant lie as they would need to have obtained a judgment against you first.


You have the right to food money.

If you don't mind a little investigation, humiliation, and if you cross your fingers rehabilitation..............

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ok

 

this is what i would do

 

send a cca request to 1st crud by recorded delievery

ask as well for a copy of the notice of assignment from welcome and ist crud,

ask how it was served to conform to the law of property act 1925

 

that will shut up ist crud for a while , they will need to employ some staffwith more than one brain cell to understand that request

 

that will cost a quid

 

send welcome an sar request

 

that will cost ten quid.

this will give you account history, agreements, default notice, infact every thing welcome have on you

 

send the sar request to

 

welcome financial services ltd

compliance

ruddington fields biz park

ruddington

nottingham

ng11 6nz

 

 

thats cca request to 1st crud with £1 postel order

 

sar to welcome compliance £10 postel order by recorded delievery

 

allways print your name, never sign

 

if 1st crud or welcome phone from now on its every thing in writing and put the phone down

 

its for your protection

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1) Date of purchase.2001/2..

2) Cost of car-i cant quite remember,but i know it didn;t total too much cos i went for a low car price i knew what i could afford n couldn't afford i really can't remember i'd have to ask welcome to find all my original agreements i am only roughly guessing but i do know i didn't have long to go,but like i say... i handed it back voluntary....

3) Total cost of finance and period eg. 48 months-not sure of this...id have to get all documents off welcome...im just trying to go on what i remember

im really confused as to dates payments etc but i know myself that i had paid alot off of it n was well shocked when 1st credit rang me only this year acting on behalf of welcome n claiming i owed for grand cos i asked why i owed it n they said all interest added on from when i stopped paying for it..

i really need this sorting n i will not rest until welcome or 1st credit can give me a proper and true settlement but i know its not four grand

4) Date of VT-2004..

5) Total number of monthly payments made at £*** £210.00 p/m..

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michelle - the above advice is absolutely correct and if you follow that 100% you will be ok - wonder why Welcome are now farming out to first credit what happened their 'in-house' DCA whatever it was associates??

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evenng michelle

 

welcome finance and 1st crud

thats a first

 

with out reading again, tell me when did you last make a payment on the vehicle-according to 1st credit they said i havent made a payment to welcome since 2005...i know i paid it for 2 years i must have stopped paying at the end of 2004..

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the normal ****** dca welcome use was dlc aka hillesden securities

 

i know they were sending a lot of accounts back to welcome as the agreements were crap

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there was a spate of L and something associates a couple of months ago - perhaps the same thing happend - and we all know 1st crud have no morrals and would chase their mum if they could!

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when i gave the car back to welcome the manager said to me why are you voluntary handing it in michelle cos you've paid most of it n it's rightfully yours but i dint want it anymore...n he kept saying are you sure you want to hand it back to us....!

n this is why am confused if it was my car then why are they demanding money off me...?..did i make a mistake of handing the car back,after they said it was rightfully mine at the time...

from all convo's i remember two week ago when 1 st credit rang me i said to them im not paying so please ring welcome i explained to him that welcome said the car was mine... n i should take welcome to court.not them demand money...through you... the guy at first credit said to me were not bothered if you take welcome to court as long as we get the 4 grand this gets me mad cos i hang up on 1st credit n then they ring back a few days later.. n tell me if im not paying then fair enough n then they just ring a few days later again n waffle on about how were gonna work out at me paying this money they'll say things like were trying to avoid this debt going to court blah blah.

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if they keep up the calls, we will send them a telephone harasment letter to shut them up,

how do you know ist crud own this debt and are not just collecting on behalf of

 

thats why you request a copy of the assignment notices

 

stick one back to ist crud next time they give you any grief

 

as they are saying that they are the creditor, it wont be welcome but ist crud you will be taking to court

 

mention the consumer protection from unfair trading regs to them,

they will crawl back under there stone then

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you should just stop talking to them - they only do it to wind you up to the point you pay something to make them go away.

Refuse to answer their security questions - or do what my gran used to do to kids messing about prank calling - blow a whistle down the phone ;)

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lol andie.......i know last time my son answered the phone n i asked him who it was n what did they say n he said they said you have to ring them,my son's only 11..for god sake but they even gave him the number to pass on to me, if anyone is at my house n the phone rings i always say if it's 1st credit tell them im not here...

 

Re: welcome finance-1st credit

if they keep up the calls, we will send them a telephone harasment letter to shut them up,

how do you know ist crud own this debt and are not just collecting on behalf of

 

thats why you request a copy of the assignment notices

 

stick one back to ist crud next time they give you any grief

 

as they are saying that they are the creditor, it wont be welcome but ist crud you will be taking to court

 

mention the consumer protection from unfair trading regs to them,

they will crawl back under there stone then

 

i am going to mention all this if they do ring again n tell them i want to do everything in writing as from now on...the amounts of times i have argued with 1st credit is unbeleivable....especially when they say to me how will you be paying this 4 grand?.. will it be by debit credit card..i'm like errrr how many people do you think have four grand in their banks n are gonna pay for a debt they are disputing they owe?...i argue like hell with them n i end up putting the phone down....! in the end...! i have copeid a letter off this site to send about the harrassment calls n i will get it all printed off...,n i am going to get the ball rolling by sending that first...n then ask for wvery documentation welcome hold from my agreement..etc cos this has gone on way too long now...! and i'm scared of all the court stuff etc....! whereas before i didnt know what to do but this site is helping me a great deal thanks guys...!

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