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The beginning of the act started by me trying to show him a different oyster card. Then after his demand I showed him the real one.(ho wrote them down)

After that I told them:

I accept travelling without paying,

I accept my mistake and I am willing to pay any fine tfl thinks is appropriate as a result of my action.

And that I was said from my friends that I can use that card without having much difference.

In the question how many times you have used the card I said sometimes.

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In summary then;

 

You have had a previous Penalty Fare

You attempted to use someone elses student Oyster to avoid paying on your own

You admitted doing so on a number of other journeys

You accept that you were travelling without paying

 

You haven't had a letter from the company yet?

 

When you do you should write a full apology and offer to pay their full costs and any fares that you agree you have avoided

 

They don't have to agree to that and may decide to proceed to prosecution, but it's the best advice that I can offer I'm afraid.

.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Old Codja can you help me with this one? The other day I received a penalty fare in the london underground. I didn't have any ID or enough money to pay the 25 pounds. The man took my name, date of birth and address verbally, and then made me sign the notice, which he gave me a carbon copy of. He said I had 21 days to pay otherwise it would go up to 50.

 

The next day when I did have money I went to a underground ticketing office and paid the fine in cash. They took the notice from me, and then gave me a receipt to prove that I had paid.

 

Can/Will any legal action be taken against me and will I get a criminal record? Or is it all over now that I have paid? Will this stupid mistake on my part come up in any records in the future and bite me?

 

I am really worried...

Edited by Anonymous61944
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Old Codja can you help me with this one? The other day I received a penalty fare in the london underground. I didn't have any ID or enough money to pay the 25 pounds. The man took my name, date of birth and address verbally, and then made me sign the notice, which he gave me a carbon copy of. He said I had 21 days to pay otherwise it would go up to 50.

 

The next day when I did have money I went to a underground ticketing office and paid the fine in cash. They took the notice from me, and then gave me a receipt to prove that I had paid.

 

Can/Will any legal action be taken against me and will I get a criminal record? Or is it all over now that I have paid? Will this stupid mistake on my part come up in any records in the future and bite me?

 

I am really worried...

 

You paid the penalty and there it ends.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Today I was caught by an inspector using the student oyster photocard of my boyfriend. I've been carrying his, since mine expired, which was 2nd of July, but i hadn't been caught til today.

 

I told to the inspector that it was by mistake and that he was carrying mine, and that just for today i've been using his, cus i got confused with the covers in the morning and that i hadn't realised until then.

 

I was very cooperative with the "interview", and answered everything he asked me. At the end, he kept my boyfriend's card and let me go to buy a ticket for my travel. And he told me that he can get his Oyster card just to applying again and said that he lost it. Is this good???

 

What should i do now?? I'm very afraid and worried to get a criminal record...

 

tks

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Old Codja can you help me with this one? The other day I received a penalty fare in the london underground. I didn't have any ID or enough money to pay the 25 pounds. The man took my name, date of birth and address verbally, and then made me sign the notice, which he gave me a carbon copy of. He said I had 21 days to pay otherwise it would go up to 50.

 

The next day when I did have money I went to a underground ticketing office and paid the fine in cash. They took the notice from me, and then gave me a receipt to prove that I had paid.

 

Can/Will any legal action be taken against me and will I get a criminal record? Or is it all over now that I have paid? Will this stupid mistake on my part come up in any records in the future and bite me?

 

I am really worried...

 

 

Exactly as others have said, you paid, the matter is closed.

 

No record other than that at the rail company to indicate you had a warning for not having a valid ticket and concientiously & promptly paid the charge due.

 

Nothing to worry about

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Hi,

 

Today I was caught by an inspector using the student oyster photocard of my boyfriend. I've been carrying his, since mine expired, which was 2nd of July, but i hadn't been caught til today.

 

I told to the inspector that it was by mistake and that he was carrying mine, and that just for today i've been using his, cus i got confused with the covers in the morning and that i hadn't realised until then.

 

I was very cooperative with the "interview", and answered everything he asked me. At the end, he kept my boyfriend's card and let me go to buy a ticket for my travel. And he told me that he can get his Oyster card just to applying again and said that he lost it. Is this good???

 

What should i do now?? I'm very afraid and worried to get a criminal record...

 

tks

 

If he allowed you to purchase a ticket, hang on to it as a receipt.

 

No, it is not good.

 

If the inspector withdrew the Oyster he should be putting in a report and the card will be hot-listed. He cannot arbitrarily withhold it and not put in a report, because quite apart from the stored value for travel, the card has a residual face value that belongs to the person to whom it is issued.

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Attn: Old-CodJA

 

It is without a doubt that you are always indaunted with pleas for you to help everyone with thier despair of being issued with a Summons for a Fare Evasion. My circumstances isn't any different but I pray you show patience for my desperate need of your guidance and advice and reply to me...please.

 

I have the utmost respect for your time and advice and will be indebted to you if you could take the time to advise me. I have only joined up today in search of the best solution for my mess and have tried reading through the posts to get down to getting the answer for my problem. However I still don't have the confidence on what I should do.

 

I used a Freedom Pass that didn't belong to me and as it be I got caught. As you will know I've now got a summons to which it WILL give me a criminal conviction if I reply with a plea to being guilty.

 

However like most people I don't want the conviction to my name AT ALL as it WILL ruin my life and my career prospectives forever. Any taint on anyone's character will close more doors than it will ever open and with the economical climate that we are in, life couldn't be more harder.

 

I've called up the Prosecutions Dept and spoken with a gentleman and explained to him all the above. How I would beg and plea for this to not to go to court. He has explained to me to write an letter migating my circumstances and they will take it from there on the condition it is exceptional. He also explained to include any proof on that if I were convicted how this would affect my career. He's said it's unlikely but not impossible for them to settle out of court. The gentleman was extremely compassionate listening to me and gave me this alternative to attempt to settle it out of court, though no fault of his as he's no doubts also indaunted with such pleas.

 

Please Old-CodJA it is my first and only offence and that I swear on my life and that of my family it will NEVER happen again.

 

I beg of you to get back to me with anything you think can help me with writing my letter and getting to settle out of court.

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Thank you for your reply SRPO.

I have been writing up my letter and will be emailing and posting it out tomorrow first thing.

 

I just don't want it to be in vain if they have no intention of settling it on the basis that I did not have a guilty mind or intention of committing a dishonest crime and therefore I am punished with a conviction that will hinder my career for good.

 

Just the effect of all of this has been hindrance to my health in extremes that I will never be able to get over.

 

I have a pending employment application in the US that is now under great threat as it may now never happen if I get a conviction.

 

I'm just paraylased with utter shock that I will have to do all that I can in writing in my plea for the criminal convicition to not be the punishment for my stupidity and lapse of judgement.

 

If there be any pointers I should ensure to include in my plea it will be much appreciated.

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No thank you for taking the time out.

Charge is S.5 (3) (a) Railways Act 1889.

What are the consequences please Wriggler7?

Will I get a criminal conviction?

 

If your request not to prosecute is unsuccessful & you plead guilty at court you will receive a criminal conviction & probably a fine, possibly a conditional discharge. The fine will be dependant on your financial circumstances.

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No thank you for taking the time out.

Charge is S.5 (3) (a) Railways Act 1889.

What are the consequences please Wriggler7?

Will I get a criminal conviction?

 

As I said in my PM, stick to telling the truth in your letter and as SRPO has pointed out, you appear to be saying all the right things. Just take a deep breath and try not to worry so much

 

Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act allows for a fine of up to £1000 if you are convicted. The offence is a criminal act. If you do not succeed in getting the company to let you settle this matter without putting it before a Court, you are likely to be convicted.

 

If this is your first offence and you plead guilty to the charge at the earliest opportunity, you will get the maximum credit from the Court for doing so.

 

It is likely that you will be ordered to pay a fine, compensation, costs and a victim surcharge totalling somewhere between £150 and up to £300 depending which Court hears the case and how well you put your plea.

 

.

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Hey there,

 

First of all, thanks for all the information so far, it's quite helpful!

 

So, my story: I was in a bit of a hurry, and only needed to go 1 stop on the DLR (no excuse), but was, quite obviously, caught. Inspector took down my name, address, maybe my birthday? I was in a bit of hurry, as I needed to pack and catch a flight, so I didn't really pay much attention. He wasn't able to confirm my address, not really sure why. So he wanted me to either pay right then or show him ID. I had no money, and my only ID was a 5 year old drivers license from the USA, since I'm a US national. This didn't seem to make him too happy, but whatever, I got issued the penalty fare of 25 pounds, given the receipt, and caught my flight.

 

I got home and tried to pay the ticket, but I lost the receipt. The online system won't let me in without the 7 digit reference, which I don't have. I figured I'd wait for the letter, which I vaguely recall being told about, but it's been 2 months and nothing. I tried calling, but the penalty area seems purely automated, no one to get my reference number from. I tried calling the DLR, but same deal, couldn't get a hold of an operator. I've emailed, without answer. If I can I might just stop an inspector next time and ask him.

 

Now, the crux of my problem is I'm returning to the US soon, otherwise I'd write them. I've had conflicting information, but I generally assume that criminal charges will follow me abroad. I can only assume that would give me additional problems at immigration, if/when I return to the UK. That, and I don't like the idea of not paying when I was clearly in the wrong. A friend is convinced the DLR inspector was just irritated by my unconfirmed address and out of date license and never bothered to process my case, something I highly doubt.

 

But basically, how do I pay a fine I can't seem to locate? I'm tempted to leave fifty pounds with my landlady and have her pay it whenever the letter comes. Other than that, can I expect future harassment back in the USA?

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Old-CodJA - I would be grateful for some of your excellent advice on the following:

 

I was caught today using my mother's freedom pass by an HMRC inspector.

 

I decided not to deny my guilt, confessed upfront today and didn't cause any fuss. I answered all questions very truthfully as I felt that honesty was better than making up a transparent excuse.

 

After reading this thread I realise, frustratingly, that had I lied, and actually used a feeble excuse I would now be better off, as intent would be placed under question. Instead, it seems in this case that honesty is not the best policy.

 

I'm very concerned about the criminal record and had no idea it was a possible penalty, in fact, strangely, I was told by the HMRC inspector today that the offence would be treated as a civil case. After he questioned me, and I confessed to premeditation and intent his colleague revealed that a criminal record would be a probable outcome.

 

I have spent the last five years of my career in the financial services before losing my job 13 months ago. A Criminal record could mean that I am unable to work in the financial sector in future.

 

Questions:

 

1. Do you think that my honesty and cooperation will work for or against me?

2. Do you think a criminal record is a likely outcome?

 

Advice on next steps

 

1. Contact the prosecution manager responsible for the station in question to negotiate an out of court settlement.

 

2. If this fails, wait for "the letter" from TFL and reply with:

- a reiteration of my confession,

- a sincere apology

- details of my financial situation and unemployment

- the implications of a criminal record for my career

 

Maestro CodJA, please help me out!!

 

(ps, I also posted this on the 2009 Rosa thread. Sorry if there is any confusion!)

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The most important piece of advice that I can give is actually to WAIT for the letter.

 

Some people may think it best to jump in with an immediate response, but, it does occasionally happen that, because these offices are particularly busy, staff do sometimes lose notes or simply don't get around to some reports in good time. I've been involved in these matters for more than 30 years and am a realist. I see this happen from time to time.

 

Why remind them that you have been spoken to and send someone scurrying off to find the report when there is an outside chance that you might not hear anything anyway?

 

If you do get a letter, once correspondence does arrive you will know exactly who is dealing with the case and can address your reply to the right person.

 

Now to your specific queries:

 

In answer to question 1. I have always taken the view that co-operation & honesty once caught should be given credit. The Courts work on the same premise and in my experience most prosecution managers do too.

 

Question 2. A conviction is a likely outcome if this matter proceeds to Court. Whilst there is a record of conviction, this is not often something that makes it to PNC and that is simply because no-one is responsible for collating and uploading the results of these lists. Bichard recommended that such matters should be recorded, but the fact is they rarely are. It is a relatively minor offence in the scheme of criminal matters and so unlikely to affect your employability for most jobs.

 

Advice on next steps:

 

Once you receive the letter, I would reply making your four points and asking if the company will allow you to pay an administrative penalty to dispose of this matter promptly without incurring additional cost to the rail company and allowing you to preserve your good name.

 

You should undertake never to repeat the offence, stating that it occurred as an irrational and out of character one-off response to a difficult financial position and offer to pay the full fare and any reasonable costs that have been incurred by the rail company.

 

If the prosecution manager decides not to accept your offer of remedy, you could then go to Court and plead guilty, but put before the Court the offer that you had made in recognising your guilt. Many Courts will take that into consideration when determining any penalty and may well order a discharge.

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Thank you very much Old-CodJA

 

Just a few follow up questions if I may:

 

1. If I wait for "the Letter" am I running the risk of receiving a Summons without having the opportunity of putting my case forward, or does "the letter" ALWAYS come before a Summons

 

2. Will TFL be legally obliged to move towards a conviction because I confessed to premeditation and intent, or do they have the discretion to choose not to prosecute based on the merits of my honesty and mitigating financial circumstances? Please note that one of the inspector's questions was "did you intend to use this card for the rest of your onward journey?" to which I answered yes.

 

3. What is your view on the following points?

 

a. I explained to the inspector that I had been unemployed for over a year and that I had used the card to see a an ex colleague about a job. He noted down on his pad that I was smartly dressed and my physical description, after my signature.

 

b. The HMRC inspector asked me how I would proceed with my onward journey after he confiscated the freedom pass. I showed him my valid Oyster card, which I also had with me and which I had used for my morning journey. He took a print-off from the oyster card before returning it to me to complete the rest of my trip (I was so confused by that point that I actually got on the wrong train at Waterloo ending up in Woking instead of my South London destination! Naturally I thought I was going to get caught without a valid ticket again and end up in prison by the end of the day, but managed to get back to London un-incarcerated!!!).

 

c. Interestingly also, I was not given any information at the time in writing of the details of the event, so have not written record of the incident. Is this common?

 

5. If the prosecution manager decides not to accept my offer then is it best to:

a. Go to court, plead guilty, and point out the offer that I had made to the prosecuting manager

 

OR

 

b. Write a letter of confession, apology and a guilty plea to the court, pointing out my previous offer, to avoid having to actually appear in court.

 

You mentioned that if it goes to court, I will likely get a conviction. If I do receive a summons then which of option 4a or 4b is preferable. I've heard that if I appear in court then I will be finger printed, and processed in detail, and therefore increase the chances of clearly appearing on criminal records. Do you agree with this view?

 

As always, thank you very much for your wisdom and time

 

Best regards

 

IRWT

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Firstly I'm going to dispense with the ridiculous notion that you will be fingerprinted if you appear at Court on a Summons for this offence. NO YOU WILL NOT.

 

I don't know who told you that, but it is plain scare-mongering.

 

TfL have a policy of sending a verification letter before proceeding.

 

TfL are NOT legally obliged to move to prosecution, they may do so, but equally may choose to allow a settlement by administrative penalty or even in some cases may decide to send only a warning letter. It is very unlikely that the latter option will be taken in this case, but it is their call.

 

It is always best to recognise the authority of a Court by attending on a Summons and saying sorry in person when pleading guilty, or, if you have a strong case to do so, put any plea of 'not guilty' in person as appropriate.

 

Yes, it is quite normal not to be given a copy of any notes at this stage. If you had requested a copy the inspector might have arranged for a copy to be given if practical, but it is no different to notes being taken in a pocket book by a Police Officer and you receiving a letter at a later date.

 

If you were cautioned there are set protocols that must be followed in respect of a contemporaneous note taking, but there is no obligation to have a photo-copy or printed form handed to you at that time.

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Many thanks Mr. CodJA

 

I think I read the finger printing thing on one of the threads but thanks for clarifying.

 

Thank you very much for all your advice and the valuable service. You are honest and unsensational which is exactly the kind of approach that such matters require. I'm glad to have found this thread.

 

I'll let you know how the story unfolds.

 

best regards

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where do HMRC come into this?

Views expressed in this forum by me are my own personal opinion and you take it on face value! I make any comments to the best of my knowledge but you take my advice at your own risk.

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