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    • Hi slick!    On 22 July they said they would refund me £74.07 Theres no DD in place as my membership was a once off payment in November last year.  Hi Dx,    I paid through PayPal last year as a one off payment. 
    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
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It is extremely unlikely that the rail company would seek to prosecute you because they have agreed a disposal. I have to say that I really am quite surprised that they allowed a settlement so quickly in this sort of case, but that is amatter for them of course

 

As for your friend, that's a different matter. Lending you his pass was a particularly stupid thing for any member of staff to do. It would seem that LUL have clearly discovered that you are known to each other and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the likely scenario in that you didn't expect to get caught and he expected his pass back when your journey was done.

 

LUL are not obliged to issue him a new pass if they do not believe his story and if they believe that he has been complicit in assisting you to avoid a fare they could even prosecute him rather than dealing with it wholly internally and that would likely result in dismissal.

 

Even if they don't have sufficient evidence to proceed to prosecution, they do not have to re-issue a free pass to him if they believe that it was wilfully misused and that he and you have been untruthful.

 

.

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thanks alot for your prompt reply. What if my friend tells the truth that he was not aware i had the pass and had used it until last week when his supervisor informed him that the pass had been confiscated from someone who claimed to be a friend of his.

He actually thought he had lost it because i had not told him i had picked the pass up to return to him when he had left it in the gym we go to together, but stupidily i used it the next day and got caught.

Would that have any bearing in his defence as i would not want him to lose his job over this. He only told his supervisor that he did not know me because he knew they would instantly accuse him of giving it to me with the intention of using it.

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thanks alot for your prompt reply. What if my friend tells the truth that he was not aware i had the pass and had used it until last week when his supervisor informed him that the pass had been confiscated from someone who claimed to be a friend of his.

He actually thought he had lost it because i had not told him i had picked the pass up to return to him when he had left it in the gym we go to together, but stupidily i used it the next day and got caught.

Would that have any bearing in his defence as i would not want him to lose his job over this. He only told his supervisor that he did not know me because he knew they would instantly accuse him of giving it to me with the intention of using it.

 

It seems to me that is really down to who they believe.

 

From your post it seems that you told the inspector at the time it was your friend's pass and you say he didn't put that in his notes because 'he helped you out a bit' when you 'didn't want to get him in trouble'.

 

That doesn't mean he didn't tell his superiors later though does it?

 

Revenue & prosecution staff are usually very hot on following up matters that involve apparent staff fiddles in my experience.

 

When you were caught you said it was 'your friend's pass' and then later, he tells his supervisor he has lost his pass.

 

Next, his supervisor is advised by the revenue team that they have retrieved his pass being misused by you and that you have claimed to be 'his friend'.

 

His supervisor questions him about this and he denied knowing you.

 

If your friend now goes back on that and tells his supervisor that he does know you, but didn't know that you had his pass, who would you believe?

 

.

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I understand the point you've made. This is all one big mess and am still unsure what can be done and what the outcome will be.

 

Thanks for all your advice.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi,

I would like to ask what should I do and what penalty can I expect.

I was caught on the underground station by the inspector without a ticket. when I saw inspector I was trying to turn back but she asked me for a ticket and I admitted not having it. I entered the station through the gate behind someone. I did because I was trying desperately safe some money.

Now they sent me a letter saying that legal proceeding may be initiated. What should I write in responde and what maximum and minimum penalty can I expect.

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

 

Tom

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Hi,

I would like to ask what should I do and what penalty can I expect.

I was caught on the underground station by the inspector without a ticket. when I saw inspector I was trying to turn back but she asked me for a ticket and I admitted not having it. I entered the station through the gate behind someone. I did because I was trying desperately safe some money.

Now they sent me a letter saying that legal proceeding may be initiated. What should I write in responde and what maximum and minimum penalty can I expect.

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

 

Tom

 

your looking at £250 + a criminal record, money wasted which you could of used for spelling and grammar lessons.

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Hi,

I would like to ask what should I do and what penalty can I expect.

I was caught on the underground station by the inspector without a ticket. when I saw inspector I was trying to turn back but she asked me for a ticket and I admitted not having it. I entered the station through the gate behind someone. I did because I was trying desperately safe some money.

Now they sent me a letter saying that legal proceeding may be initiated. What should I write in responde and what maximum and minimum penalty can I expect.

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

 

Tom

 

Firstly, please ignore 'WeatherCold', everyone else does. It's a bit rich for him to suggest you need grammar lessons when he uses 'your' instead of the correct 'You are' or, 'You're'

 

You should write to the prosecutor's office asking whether you might be allowed to settle the matter 'out of Court'

 

They do not have to permit this and where there is clear evidence of an attempt to avoid paying a fare as your original post admits, it is unlikely, but you will not know unless you try.

 

The maximum penalty if convicted of the offence of 'intent to avoid a fare' is a fine of up to £1000. If it is a first offence and if you plead guilty, that is likely to be reduced to between £100 and £150. If you are lucky, you may get a very sympathetic Court and may even be fined less.

 

You would probably also be ordered to pay the costs of the prosecution, which will probably be in the order of £100 plus the unpaid fare and a 'Victim surcharge' of £15

 

If you are fortunate enough to get the prosecutor to agree to an administrative disposal, you can expect to pay around £100 - £150 to avoid Court action

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Firstly, please ignore 'WeatherCold', everyone else does. It's a bit rich for him to suggest you need grammar lessons when he uses 'your' instead of the correct 'You are' or, 'You're'

 

You should write to the prosecutor's office asking whether you might be allowed to settle the matter 'out of Court'

 

They do not have to permit this and where there is clear evidence of an attempt to avoid paying a fare as your original post admits, it is unlikely, but you will not know unless you try.

 

The maximum penalty if convicted of the offence of 'intent to avoid a fare' is a fine of up to £1000. If it is a first offence and if you plead guilty, that is likely to be reduced to between £100 and £150. If you are lucky, you may get a very sympathetic Court and may even be fined less.

 

You would probably also be ordered to pay the costs of the prosecution, which will probably be in the order of £100 plus the unpaid fare and a 'Victim surcharge' of £15

 

If you are fortunate enough to get the prosecutor to agree to an administrative disposal, you can expect to pay around £100 - £150 to avoid Court action

 

Thank you very much for your respond.

I intent to write to the prosecutor and explain my behaviour with financial problems and ask for out of court option.

I hope they will agree.

 

Thanks a lot once again

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thanks for the help...what do you not believe? I am absolutely genuine on this...

 

Let me get this right...you used to work for TFL, you had a test pass you 'forgot' to hand in & also a PAYG oyster....you dont look at the credit remaining message when you tap in/out....and you seriously expect to be given the benefit of the doubt?

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I have a question of my own and I have posted it in a seperate thread so spare me if you find this repetitive.

In nov 2004 I was travelling without a ticket and then was caught, I was new to the country then and basically agreed to whatever the ticket inspector said, they asked me to pay 20 pounds on the spot but I dint have that money then so they let me go after taking my address. I dint receive any letter from them for four weeks and then I changed my address. So after 4 months I got a call from old landlord informing me of a court summons letter he has got for me, I collected the letter and realised it was from marylebone magistrates court and fine for 150 pounds.

 

I immediately called them and paid 50 pounds and paid the other 100 in installments, until now I dint realise that this could possibly be a criminal conviction. It has stuck me now and I want to know if this was put down as a criminal conviction or judgement against me, I have checked the trustonline.org.uk register to see if there was any judgement against me but couldnt find anything.

 

Is there any way I can find out if there was a criminal conviction against me ?

 

your input will be highly appreciated..

 

thanks,

 

Golu

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Firstly, do you still have the letter advising you of the fine?

 

If yes, it will tell you what offence was charged and therefore what you were convicted of.

 

Second, if it says it was a Byelaw offence, e.g: National Railways Byelaw 18.1 , then it is less serious than having been charged with 'intent to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

 

Whilst there is a record of a conviction by a Court, this may not always make it on to the PNC and in fact, only a small proportion of such offences ever do at the present time.

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thanks for your reply.

 

I cant find the first correspondences from the court, the only one I have says 'ORDER' and does not contain any information about any charge, it just says fine of 152.50 pence and its break down as

RAILWAY - FAIL PAY LONDON UNDERGROUND

FCOMP 2.50

FCOST 50.00

FO 100.00

 

It is from marylebone magistrates court ( mind you this was may 2005) and it also says failure to pay may result in warrant for your arrest.

 

It has a fine reference number on it. Can I contact the court to find out if this made to PNC.

 

I have also checked on trust online org uk which is now the register of judgements of magistrates court and county court but dint find anything on my record...

 

thanks again

Edited by learningtrade
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thanks for your reply.

 

I cant find the first correspondences from the court, the only one I have says 'ORDER' and does not contain any information about any charge, it just says fine of 152.50 pence and its break down as

RAILWAY - FAIL PAY LONDON UNDERGROUND

FCOMP 2.50

FCOST 50.00

FO 100.00

 

It is from marylebone magistrates court ( mind you this was may 2005) and it also says failure to pay may result in warrant for your arrest.

 

It has a fine reference number on it. Can I contact the court to find out if this made to PNC.

 

I have also checked on trust online org uk which is now the register of judgements of magistrates court and county court but dint find anything on my record...

 

thanks again

 

I'd suggest that as this is five years old, if it had made it to PNC this is a relatively low level offence and the conviction will be 'spent'

 

I wouldn't worry about it now if I were you

 

.

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Thanks CodjA, I called up the court today and they dont have any records on their system for a 5 year old case, they reckon they have archived my case and hence would have to retrieve it..

 

I have already sent them a written letter as requested by them to start retrieving the archive process...I am told it might take a month or so and may be charged..Funny thing is I have checked trust online org and there dont seem to be any information about me..

 

Also I am going to do a basic disclosure CRB on me to see if there are any unspent conviction on me...

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SRPO is spot on IME.

Also the TOC might take notice of their RPIs opinion in this matter, most experienced staff have a finely tuned bullsh*t detector, if they believe your mistaken rather than dishonest in any way it'll go in your favour.

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hi everyone,

as stupid as it may sound but i was caught using my parters over18 student oyster card on the bus. now i have received court summon, and i am helpless and can't think anything else other than getting a criminal conviction..any idea and help is highly appreciated...please

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please help me!!!

i was caught using someone else freedom pass on the Underground around 23 march 2010, and i didn't received anything yet...

at that time i told them my details, address, and they kept the freedom pass(this belongs to someone that is living with me)...

please tell me what should i do in this case?

i have to receive a letter from court? or what?

I WILL HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD????

WHAT SHOULD I DO???

please please help me...please...because i can't sleep at night!!!

 

AND ALSO WHAT SHOULD I DO - CALL THEM BEFORE I RECEIVE THE LETTER? OR WAIT FOR THAT?

 

what's the telephone number wher i should call the underground to settle this out of court???

 

please please

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please help me!!!

i was caught using someone else freedom pass on the Underground around 23 march 2010, and i didn't received anything yet...

at that time i told them my details, address, and they kept the freedom pass(this belongs to someone that is living with me)...

please tell me what should i do in this case?

i have to receive a letter from court? or what?

I WILL HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD????

WHAT SHOULD I DO???

please please help me...please...because i can't sleep at night!!!

 

AND ALSO WHAT SHOULD I DO - CALL THEM BEFORE I RECEIVE THE LETTER? OR WAIT FOR THAT?

 

what's the telephone number wher i should call the underground to settle this out of court???

 

please please

 

Yes you will receive letters from the prosecuting agency & the court.

Yes you will receive a criminal record.

You dont know who is prosecuting yet so you cannot call anyone.

They wont settle out of court unless you can show extremely mitigating circumstances as this type of offence is thought to be very serious in the eyes of TFL.

 

Unfortunately you will have to wait until they contact you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Although I have read as much posts I could I would like your opinion to my situation.

I was caught by an inspector using a student card although I am not a student.

I was asked some questions and then he wrote my answers down along with my statement that I really regret and I am willing to pay a fine. Then both my oyster cards were taken.

Some days before that incident I was issued a 25 pounds fine because I was using that Oyster card.

 

Will they be able to find out both fines?

 

If the letter from tfl comes and I state them that I did a wrong thing and I am accepting to pay any cost my action caused and any fine I deserve will they accept to settle it without without going to court?

 

THanks for any replies

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Hi,

 

Although I have read as much posts I could I would like your opinion to my situation.

I was caught by an inspector using a student card although I am not a student.

I was asked some questions and then he wrote my answers down along with my statement that I really regret and I am willing to pay a fine. Then both my oyster cards were taken.

Some days before that incident I was issued a 25 pounds fine because I was using that Oyster card.

 

Will they be able to find out both fines?

 

If the letter from tfl comes and I state them that I did a wrong thing and I am accepting to pay any cost my action caused and any fine I deserve will they accept to settle it without without going to court?

 

THanks for any replies

 

Much of the answer really depends on what is in that statement 'that you really regret'.

 

What is it that you said, which you now regret?

Did you you give false details to try to make out the card was your own?

 

Yes, the system records all of the Penalty Fare issues, so the earlier one can be taken into consideration.

 

It seems clear that you were using someone else's student card and that is a breach of trust, which may be regarded as a serious offence.

 

.

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