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    • I've looked through all our old NPE threads, and as far as we know they have never had the bottle to do court. There are no guarantees of course, but when it comes to put or shut up they definitely tend towards shut up. How about something like -   Dear Jonathan and Julie, Re: PCN no.XXXXX cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  I rolled around on the floor in laughter at the idea that you actually expected me to take this tripe seriously and cough up. I'll write to you not some uninterested third party, thanks all the same, because you have are the ones trying to threaten me about this non-existent "debt". Go and look up Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd, saddos.  Oh, while you're at it, go and look up your Subject Access Request obligations - we all know how you ballsed that up way back in January to March. Dear, dear, dear - you couldn't resist adding your £70 Unicorn Food Tax, you greedy gets.  Judges don't like these made-up charges, do they? You can either drop this foolishness now or get a hell of a hammering in court.  Both are fine with me.  Summer is coming up and I would love a holiday at your expense after claiming an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g). I look forward to your deafening silence.   That should show them you're not afraid of them and draw their attention to their having legal problems of their own with the SAR.  If they have any sense they'll crawl back under their stone and leave you in peace.  Over the next couple of days invest in a 2nd class stamp (all they are worth) and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.
    • Yes that looks fine. It is to the point. I think somewhere in the that the you might want to point out that your parcel had been delivered but clearly had been opened and resealed and the contents had been stolen
    • Hi All, I just got in from work and received a letter dated 24 April 2024. "We've sent you a Single Justice Procedure notice because you have been charged with an offence, on the Transport for London Network." "You need to tell us whether you are guilty or not guilty. This is called making your plea."
    • Okay please go through the disclosure very carefully. I suggest that you use the technique broadly in line with the advice we give on preparing your court bundle. You want to know what is there – but also very importantly you want to know what is not there. For instance, the email that they said they sent you before responding to the SAR – did you see that? Is there any trace of of the phone call that you made to the woman who didn't know anything about SAR's? On what basis was the £50 sent to you? Was it unilateral or did they offer it and you accepted it on some condition? When did they send you this £50 cheque? Have you banked it? Also, I think that we need to start understanding what you have lost here. Have you lost any money – and if so how much? Send the SAR to your bank as advised above
    • In anticipation of lodging my court claim next Weds 1 May (14 days after advising P2G that was my deadline for them to settle my claim) I have completed my first draft POC as below: Claim Claim number: xxxxx Reference: P2G MAY 2024   Claimant xxxxx   Defendant Parcel2Go 1A Parklands Lostock Bolton BL6 4SD  Particulars of Claim The defendant has failed to arrange for the safe delivery of the claimant's parcel containing a 8 secondhand golf clubs (valued at £265) that was sent to a UK address using their delivery service (P2G Reference xxxxx). The defendant contracted Evri to deliver the parcel (Evri Reference xxxxx) and refuses to reimburse the claimant on the grounds that the claimant did not purchase their secondary insurance contract. The defendant seeks to exclude their liability in breach of section 57 Consumer Rights Act. The secondary insurance contract is in breach of section 72. The claimant seeks reimbursement of £265, plus P2G fees of £9.10, plus postage costs for two first class letters to P2G of £2.70, plus court fees, plus interest. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xxxxx to xxxxxx on £276.80 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxxx   Details of claim Amount claimed £276.80 I look forward to your thoughts and comments guys! As ever, many thanks - G59    
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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Using a ticket by 'mistake' amounts to a defence against the charge of 'intending that the fare be avoided'. (Section 5,3,a Regulation of Railways Act 1889)

 

The problem is whether the evidence 'proves' that it was not a mistake.

 

All 'early guilty pleas' result in a reduction in the sentence, normally a third off.

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I assume that if they issue a court summons they are satisfied the evidence shows it was intentional.

 

What I mean is, if the offender pleads guilty at the hearing, will the judge ask why they claimed it was a mistake earlier?

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Rail fare evasion are 'summary only' offences, and therefore are heard in a Magistrates Court in front of Magistrates, or sometimes a District Judge. (You may hear Court staff talking about a 'DJ', who most certainly will not have twin decks and scratch crucial sounds)

 

Letters to the 'prosecutor' are not normally read to the Court in the event of a guilty plea. Letters to 'the Court' might be. (Note the words 'normally' and 'might')

 

As such, I expect that if you plead guilty to the Court, they will not get to see any of the correspondence that went between you and the railway. Unless you mention it in your letter to the Court. Many times, I have heard 'defendants' say all sorts of interesting stuff about 'I wrote to them, but they took no notice'. Magistrates may well, then, ask the prosecutor about the correspondence.

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Thanks for the advice. Is it worth getting a solicitor to try and settle? Two said they can do it easily and have done in the past, but one said it will only get them 'excited' and make the matter worse (all local btw)!

There seem to be conflicting views on this forum about admitting guilt to the prosecution. Is it one of the requirements for a settlement or does it make it easier for them to prosecute?

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The one certainty is that a solicitor will cost you money.

 

I sugges that you rootle around and find Old Codja's draft letter. I do not advocate admitting guilt, but certainly show that you will be careful in future, offer to pay 'reasonable costs'.

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As a generalisation I would say YES

 

The fact that you have turned out allows for a number of considerations

 

1. You may (if you wish) try a last ditch, face to face request of the prosecutor to accept an alternative disposal. (Out of Court settlement or discontinuation.)

 

2. The Magistrates will be in no doubt that you have taken things seriously, that you have recognised the authority of the Court and whether pleading guilty or not, will take note of that

 

3. If you are pleading guilty with mitigation, you can be questioned by the Bench and MAY benefit by being able to put your explanation yourself rather than relying on someone else reading your words without expression.

 

.

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Don't get confused with 'cautions'. There is the 'caution' that an officer/inspector/investigator is required to give to warn a potential defendant that the questions and answers that are about to happen are going to form part of 'evidence', and then there is the 'Caution' administerd by 'police' to close a case without it going to Court. Such cautions are normally done by officers of Inspector rank, at a Police station, long after the event, and after a decision has been made regarding suitable disposal of the case.

 

Folk are correct to point out that there is no need for prosecution to prove 'mens rea' (guilty mind, or guilty intent depending what school you went to) in a byelaw offence. However, drunkenness as a defence or a mitigation is often 'iffy', it can make the Court see the offence as 'worse', it might not, hence my suggestion for taking advice from a 'local' man.

 

CPS have processes to go through before deciding whether a case is 'in the public interest'. However, there will always be parts of a case which will only seem clear to the prosecutor that made the decision. It may even be that the 'location' has particular problems, and there was pressure for the matter to go to court. We can all speculate, truth is, 'we' don't know.

 

 

Appreicate your advice Wriggler

 

have not been on here as have been trying to relax about it all was getting very uptight

 

My letter is sent in which I have advised that I have had a drink and been dieing for a wee on the tube, then in a moment of madness I have done the deed. I have apolgised to all involved and mentioned how embarassed I am and that I am of previous good character. I have asked that 'due to work commitments' could this pls be dealt with in my absence.

 

I have spoken to the British transport Police and they advise that these issues are normally dealt with in my absence but I am not sure how much I can trust that advice , after all they are the prosecution she seemsed a genuine woman though.

 

I ahve been generally advised that these things can depend a lot on the 'mood' of the magistrate at the time.

 

If I go it may cause issues at work in that they may need to know why I am going and in that I am covering for others at the moment so will not go down well (what I am saying is my reasosn for not going are legitimate)

 

I have not spoken to a local man as cant find a decent affordable one to be honest. One option iof I go is to consult the suty solicator although not sure what advice he can give me on the day ?

 

Am I going abut this the right way guys I sure hope so

 

also so the mag does want to see me what will happen I will be summons ata later date ? and is it likely this will end up costing me more?

 

very confused and just want this over with

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it was actually wall in ladies toilet so admittedly not nice at all

 

see my reply to wriggler sorry for reposting..

 

Appreicate your advice Wriggler

 

have not been on here as have been trying to relax about it all was getting very uptight

 

My letter is sent in which I have advised that I have had a drink and been dieing for a wee on the tube, then in a moment of madness I have done the deed. I have apolgised to all involved and mentioned how embarassed I am and that I am of previous good character. I have asked that 'due to work commitments' could this pls be dealt with in my absence.

 

I have spoken to the British transport Police and they advise that these issues are normally dealt with in my absence but I am not sure how much I can trust that advice , after all they are the prosecution she seemsed a genuine woman though.

 

I ahve been generally advised that these things can depend a lot on the 'mood' of the magistrate at the time.

 

If I go it may cause issues at work in that they may need to know why I am going and in that I am covering for others at the moment so will not go down well (what I am saying is my reasosn for not going are legitimate)

 

I have not spoken to a local man as cant find a decent affordable one to be honest. One option iof I go is to consult the suty solicator although not sure what advice he can give me on the day ?

 

Am I going abut this the right way guys I sure hope so

 

also so the mag does want to see me what will happen I will be summons ata later date ? and is it likely this will end up costing me more?

 

very confused and just want this over with

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As a generalisation I would say YES

 

The fact that you have turned out allows for a number of considerations

 

1. You may (if you wish) try a last ditch, face to face request of the prosecutor to accept an alternative disposal. (Out of Court settlement or discontinuation.)

 

2. The Magistrates will be in no doubt that you have taken things seriously, that you have recognised the authority of the Court and whether pleading guilty or not, will take note of that

 

3. If you are pleading guilty with mitigation, you can be questioned by the Bench and MAY benefit by being able to put your explanation yourself rather than relying on someone else reading your words without expression.

 

.

 

 

Old Codja I have already sent my letter re my breach of byelaw, but am now thinking of somehow showing up anyway , if I can get the time off.

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The majority of cases like this are dealt with in the absence of the defendant.

 

Duty solicitor is likely to refuse to advise you, the 'scheme' does not cover 'minor' matters.

 

The 'mood' of the Magistrates does make a difference, but they have sentencing guidelines, and their 'mood' is much less influential than it was 30 years ago.

 

From your general tone, I think if you go along, the Court will see your contrition and embarrassment. It is possible that they might award a discharge, conditional or absolute, but nothing is ever certain until the Bench announce verdict and sentence.

 

Trust me, it will not be the worst case before them on the day. Nobody died, there is no huge financial implication. It is commendable that you are embarrassed, but please keep some perspective!

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'It is possible that they might award a discharge, conditional or absolute, but nothing is ever certain until the Bench announce verdict and sentence'

 

Even though I plead guilty I may not be found so? Please explain how and why a conditional/absoulte discharge may be awarded and the implications of such a thing.

 

Also am I obliged to speak before sentencing? and is there anything I can plead I may not be aware if.

 

A part of me is relaxed but another part of me is thinking ' what a silly bu**er' to get yourself into such a situaution

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If you attend the hearing you can ask the bench to consider giving you a conditional discharge instead of a fine due to your previous good charactor , contrition & embarrassment.

If you do not attend they can only impose a fine.

You will be guided by the legal advisor on the order things happen, they will be sympathetic to you if you are unrepresented.

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If you attend the hearing you can ask the bench to consider giving you a conditional discharge instead of a fine due to your previous good charactor , contrition & embarrassment.

If you do not attend they can only impose a fine.

You will be guided by the legal advisor on the order things happen, they will be sympathetic to you if you are unrepresented.

 

Can you please advise what a conditional discharge actually constitutes, what form would it take.

 

What in effect it means

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It means that the Court file would show that you pleaded guilty / were convicted of the offence, but were not punished at the time other than being required not to offend again within the next 12 months or time specified.

 

If you were to offend again during the time specified by the Court and were convicted of an offence, you could then be punished both for the new offence and the original one.

 

If given a conditional discharge you might still be ordered to pay something toward the prosecution costs, but that would be wholly at the discretion of the Court.

 

My feelings were summed up by this quote from Wriggler7:

 

"From your general tone, I think if you go along, the Court will see your contrition and embarrassment. It is possible that they might award a discharge, conditional or absolute, but nothing is ever certain until the Bench announce verdict and sentence."

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ah so a discharge is still a conviction, so the only real benefit is in my wallet

 

Yes it is, however any potential employer will look more favourably at a ConDis than a fine as its considered to be a lesser punishment.

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Yes it is, however any potential employer will look more favourably at a ConDis than a fine as its considered to be a lesser punishment.

 

I am reliably advised by more than one source that this breach of bye law is non recordable, fingers crossed whatever happens my job and future job prospects are not effected

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I am reliably advised by more than one source that this breach of bye law is non recordable, fingers crossed whatever happens my job and future job prospects are not effected

 

Byelaws are non-recordable, however if you are asked if you have any convictions you must declare them or face dismissal for gross misconduct or even prosecution. (Check the Rehabilitation Of Offenders Act for qualifying time scale).

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1. You may (if you wish) try a last ditch, face to face request of the prosecutor to accept an alternative disposal. (Out of Court settlement or discontinuation.)

 

.

 

How can you do that? Do you get to see the prosecutor before the hearing? Also do you present the mitigation before or after pleading?

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How can you do that? Do you get to see the prosecutor before the hearing? Also do you present the mitigation before or after pleading?

 

Yes, in the Magistrates Court if you ask to speak to the prosecutor before your case is called on you will get a chance to do so

 

He or she may not be able to agree an alternative disposal, but sometimes, according to individual circumstances, may be able to.

 

.

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Yes, in the Magistrates Court if you ask to speak to the prosecutor before your case is called on you will get a chance to do so

 

He or she may not be able to agree an alternative disposal, but sometimes, according to individual circumstances, may be able to.

 

.

 

 

would my circumstances allow such a request Old-Cadja from what I have revealed? i have been wondering what would have happened if I had contacted the BTP straight after the incident in that would it have gone as far as court.

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would my circumstances allow such a request Old-Cadja from what I have revealed? i have been wondering what would have happened if I had contacted the BTP straight after the incident in that would it have gone as far as court.

 

Any defendant in any case of a summary offence of this type listed for hearing at a Magistrates Court can ask the prosecutor that question.

 

The worst he or she can say is 'No' and you are exactly where you were when you walked in the door.

 

.

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Any defendant in any case of a summary offence of this type listed for hearing at a Magistrates Court can ask the prosecutor that question.

 

The worst he or she can say is 'No' and you are exactly where you were when you walked in the door.

 

.

 

 

interesting

 

and this would not show on any court record I take it?

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