London Underground

[Old-CodJA]

It is extremely unlikely that the rail company would seek to prosecute you because they have agreed a disposal. I have to say that I really am quite surprised that they allowed a settlement so quickly in this sort of case, but that is amatter for them of course

 

As for your friend, that's a different matter. Lending you his pass was a particularly stupid thing for any member of staff to do. It would seem that LUL have clearly discovered that you are known to each other and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the likely scenario in that you didn't expect to get caught and he expected his pass back when your journey was done.

 

LUL are not obliged to issue him a new pass if they do not believe his story and if they believe that he has been complicit in assisting you to avoid a fare they could even prosecute him rather than dealing with it wholly internally and that would likely result in dismissal.

 

Even if they don't have sufficient evidence to proceed to prosecution, they do not have to re-issue a free pass to him if they believe that it was wilfully misused and that he and you have been untruthful.

 

.

[lundon]

thanks alot for your prompt reply. What if my friend tells the truth that he was not aware i had the pass and had used it until last week when his supervisor informed him that the pass had been confiscated from someone who claimed to be a friend of his.

He actually thought he had lost it because i had not told him i had picked the pass up to return to him when he had left it in the gym we go to together, but stupidily i used it the next day and got caught.

Would that have any bearing in his defence as i would not want him to lose his job over this. He only told his supervisor that he did not know me because he knew they would instantly accuse him of giving it to me with the intention of using it.

[Old-CodJA]

thanks alot for your prompt reply. What if my friend tells the truth that he was not aware i had the pass and had used it until last week when his supervisor informed him that the pass had been confiscated from someone who claimed to be a friend of his.

He actually thought he had lost it because i had not told him i had picked the pass up to return to him when he had left it in the gym we go to together, but stupidily i used it the next day and got caught.

Would that have any bearing in his defence as i would not want him to lose his job over this. He only told his supervisor that he did not know me because he knew they would instantly accuse him of giving it to me with the intention of using it.

 

It seems to me that is really down to who they believe.

 

From your post it seems that you told the inspector at the time it was your friend's pass and you say he didn't put that in his notes because 'he helped you out a bit' when you 'didn't want to get him in trouble'.

 

That doesn't mean he didn't tell his superiors later though does it?

 

Revenue & prosecution staff are usually very hot on following up matters that involve apparent staff fiddles in my experience.

 

When you were caught you said it was 'your friend's pass' and then later, he tells his supervisor he has lost his pass.

 

Next, his supervisor is advised by the revenue team that they have retrieved his pass being misused by you and that you have claimed to be 'his friend'.

 

His supervisor questions him about this and he denied knowing you.

 

If your friend now goes back on that and tells his supervisor that he does know you, but didn't know that you had his pass, who would you believe?

 

.

[lundon]

I understand the point you've made. This is all one big mess and am still unsure what can be done and what the outcome will be.

 

Thanks for all your advice.

[mcz12]

Hi,

I would like to ask what should I do and what penalty can I expect.

I was caught on the underground station by the inspector without a ticket. when I saw inspector I was trying to turn back but she asked me for a ticket and I admitted not having it. I entered the station through the gate behind someone. I did because I was trying desperately safe some money.

Now they sent me a letter saying that legal proceeding may be initiated. What should I write in responde and what maximum and minimum penalty can I expect.

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

 

Tom

[weather-cold]

Hi,

I would like to ask what should I do and what penalty can I expect.

I was caught on the underground station by the inspector without a ticket. when I saw inspector I was trying to turn back but she asked me for a ticket and I admitted not having it. I entered the station through the gate behind someone. I did because I was trying desperately safe some money.

Now they sent me a letter saying that legal proceeding may be initiated. What should I write in responde and what maximum and minimum penalty can I expect.

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

 

Tom

 

your looking at £250 + a criminal record, money wasted which you could of used for spelling and grammar lessons.

[Old-CodJA]

Hi,

I would like to ask what should I do and what penalty can I expect.

I was caught on the underground station by the inspector without a ticket. when I saw inspector I was trying to turn back but she asked me for a ticket and I admitted not having it. I entered the station through the gate behind someone. I did because I was trying desperately safe some money.

Now they sent me a letter saying that legal proceeding may be initiated. What should I write in responde and what maximum and minimum penalty can I expect.

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

 

Tom

 

Firstly, please ignore 'WeatherCold', everyone else does. It's a bit rich for him to suggest you need grammar lessons when he uses 'your' instead of the correct 'You are' or, 'You're'

 

You should write to the prosecutor's office asking whether you might be allowed to settle the matter 'out of Court'

 

They do not have to permit this and where there is clear evidence of an attempt to avoid paying a fare as your original post admits, it is unlikely, but you will not know unless you try.

 

The maximum penalty if convicted of the offence of 'intent to avoid a fare' is a fine of up to £1000. If it is a first offence and if you plead guilty, that is likely to be reduced to between £100 and £150. If you are lucky, you may get a very sympathetic Court and may even be fined less.

 

You would probably also be ordered to pay the costs of the prosecution, which will probably be in the order of £100 plus the unpaid fare and a 'Victim surcharge' of £15

 

If you are fortunate enough to get the prosecutor to agree to an administrative disposal, you can expect to pay around £100 - £150 to avoid Court action

[mcz12]

Firstly, please ignore 'WeatherCold', everyone else does. It's a bit rich for him to suggest you need grammar lessons when he uses 'your' instead of the correct 'You are' or, 'You're'

 

You should write to the prosecutor's office asking whether you might be allowed to settle the matter 'out of Court'

 

They do not have to permit this and where there is clear evidence of an attempt to avoid paying a fare as your original post admits, it is unlikely, but you will not know unless you try.

 

The maximum penalty if convicted of the offence of 'intent to avoid a fare' is a fine of up to £1000. If it is a first offence and if you plead guilty, that is likely to be reduced to between £100 and £150. If you are lucky, you may get a very sympathetic Court and may even be fined less.

 

You would probably also be ordered to pay the costs of the prosecution, which will probably be in the order of £100 plus the unpaid fare and a 'Victim surcharge' of £15

 

If you are fortunate enough to get the prosecutor to agree to an administrative disposal, you can expect to pay around £100 - £150 to avoid Court action

 

Thank you very much for your respond.

I intent to write to the prosecutor and explain my behaviour with financial problems and ask for out of court option.

I hope they will agree.

 

Thanks a lot once again

[London1979]

What should I do?

Edited May 7, 2010 by London1979

[SRPO]

...What should I do?

 

Pull the other one?

[London1979]

Edited May 7, 2010 by London1979

[SRPO]

Thanks for the help...what do you not believe? I am absolutely genuine on this...

 

Let me get this right...you used to work for TFL, you had a test pass you 'forgot' to hand in & also a PAYG oyster....you dont look at the credit remaining message when you tap in/out....and you seriously expect to be given the benefit of the doubt?

[London1979]

Edited May 7, 2010 by London1979

[learningtrade]

I have a question of my own and I have posted it in a seperate thread so spare me if you find this repetitive.

In nov 2004 I was travelling without a ticket and then was caught, I was new to the country then and basically agreed to whatever the ticket inspector said, they asked me to pay 20 pounds on the spot but I dint have that money then so they let me go after taking my address. I dint receive any letter from them for four weeks and then I changed my address. So after 4 months I got a call from old landlord informing me of a court summons letter he has got for me, I collected the letter and realised it was from marylebone magistrates court and fine for 150 pounds.

 

I immediately called them and paid 50 pounds and paid the other 100 in installments, until now I dint realise that this could possibly be a criminal conviction. It has stuck me now and I want to know if this was put down as a criminal conviction or judgement against me, I have checked the trustonline.org.uk register to see if there was any judgement against me but couldnt find anything.

 

Is there any way I can find out if there was a criminal conviction against me ?

 

your input will be highly appreciated..

 

thanks,

 

Golu

[Old-CodJA]

Firstly, do you still have the letter advising you of the fine?

 

If yes, it will tell you what offence was charged and therefore what you were convicted of.

 

Second, if it says it was a Byelaw offence, e.g: National Railways Byelaw 18.1 , then it is less serious than having been charged with 'intent to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

 

Whilst there is a record of a conviction by a Court, this may not always make it on to the PNC and in fact, only a small proportion of such offences ever do at the present time.

[learningtrade]

thanks for your reply.

 

I cant find the first correspondences from the court, the only one I have says 'ORDER' and does not contain any information about any charge, it just says fine of 152.50 pence and its break down as

RAILWAY - FAIL PAY LONDON UNDERGROUND

FCOMP 2.50

FCOST 50.00

FO 100.00

 

It is from marylebone magistrates court ( mind you this was may 2005) and it also says failure to pay may result in warrant for your arrest.

 

It has a fine reference number on it. Can I contact the court to find out if this made to PNC.

 

I have also checked on trust online org uk which is now the register of judgements of magistrates court and county court but dint find anything on my record...

 

thanks again

Edited May 16, 2010 by learningtrade

[Old-CodJA]

thanks for your reply.

 

I cant find the first correspondences from the court, the only one I have says 'ORDER' and does not contain any information about any charge, it just says fine of 152.50 pence and its break down as

RAILWAY - FAIL PAY LONDON UNDERGROUND

FCOMP 2.50

FCOST 50.00

FO 100.00

 

It is from marylebone magistrates court ( mind you this was may 2005) and it also says failure to pay may result in warrant for your arrest.

 

It has a fine reference number on it. Can I contact the court to find out if this made to PNC.

 

I have also checked on trust online org uk which is now the register of judgements of magistrates court and county court but dint find anything on my record...

 

thanks again

 

I'd suggest that as this is five years old, if it had made it to PNC this is a relatively low level offence and the conviction will be 'spent'

 

I wouldn't worry about it now if I were you

 

.

[learningtrade]

Thanks CodjA, I called up the court today and they dont have any records on their system for a 5 year old case, they reckon they have archived my case and hence would have to retrieve it..

 

I have already sent them a written letter as requested by them to start retrieving the archive process...I am told it might take a month or so and may be charged..Funny thing is I have checked trust online org and there dont seem to be any information about me..

 

Also I am going to do a basic disclosure CRB on me to see if there are any unspent conviction on me...

[timbo58]

SRPO is spot on IME.

Also the TOC might take notice of their RPIs opinion in this matter, most experienced staff have a finely tuned bullsh*t detector, if they believe your mistaken rather than dishonest in any way it'll go in your favour.

[deckey]

hi everyone,

as stupid as it may sound but i was caught using my parters over18 student oyster card on the bus. now i have received court summon, and i am helpless and can't think anything else other than getting a criminal conviction..any idea and help is highly appreciated...please

[deckey]

hi

[danisimo]

please help me!!!

i was caught using someone else freedom pass on the Underground around 23 march 2010, and i didn't received anything yet...

at that time i told them my details, address, and they kept the freedom pass(this belongs to someone that is living with me)...

please tell me what should i do in this case?

i have to receive a letter from court? or what?

I WILL HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD????

WHAT SHOULD I DO???

please please help me...please...because i can't sleep at night!!!

 

AND ALSO WHAT SHOULD I DO - CALL THEM BEFORE I RECEIVE THE LETTER? OR WAIT FOR THAT?

 

what's the telephone number wher i should call the underground to settle this out of court???

 

please please

[SRPO]

please help me!!!

i was caught using someone else freedom pass on the Underground around 23 march 2010, and i didn't received anything yet...

at that time i told them my details, address, and they kept the freedom pass(this belongs to someone that is living with me)...

please tell me what should i do in this case?

i have to receive a letter from court? or what?

I WILL HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD????

WHAT SHOULD I DO???

please please help me...please...because i can't sleep at night!!!

 

AND ALSO WHAT SHOULD I DO - CALL THEM BEFORE I RECEIVE THE LETTER? OR WAIT FOR THAT?

 

what's the telephone number wher i should call the underground to settle this out of court???

 

please please

 

Yes you will receive letters from the prosecuting agency & the court.

Yes you will receive a criminal record.

You dont know who is prosecuting yet so you cannot call anyone.

They wont settle out of court unless you can show extremely mitigating circumstances as this type of offence is thought to be very serious in the eyes of TFL.

 

Unfortunately you will have to wait until they contact you.

[Thslondon]

Hi,

 

Although I have read as much posts I could I would like your opinion to my situation.

I was caught by an inspector using a student card although I am not a student.

I was asked some questions and then he wrote my answers down along with my statement that I really regret and I am willing to pay a fine. Then both my oyster cards were taken.

Some days before that incident I was issued a 25 pounds fine because I was using that Oyster card.

 

Will they be able to find out both fines?

 

If the letter from tfl comes and I state them that I did a wrong thing and I am accepting to pay any cost my action caused and any fine I deserve will they accept to settle it without without going to court?

 

THanks for any replies

[Old-CodJA]

Hi,

 

Although I have read as much posts I could I would like your opinion to my situation.

I was caught by an inspector using a student card although I am not a student.

I was asked some questions and then he wrote my answers down along with my statement that I really regret and I am willing to pay a fine. Then both my oyster cards were taken.

Some days before that incident I was issued a 25 pounds fine because I was using that Oyster card.

 

Will they be able to find out both fines?

 

If the letter from tfl comes and I state them that I did a wrong thing and I am accepting to pay any cost my action caused and any fine I deserve will they accept to settle it without without going to court?

 

THanks for any replies

 

Much of the answer really depends on what is in that statement 'that you really regret'.

 

What is it that you said, which you now regret?

Did you you give false details to try to make out the card was your own?

 

Yes, the system records all of the Penalty Fare issues, so the earlier one can be taken into consideration.

 

It seems clear that you were using someone else's student card and that is a breach of trust, which may be regarded as a serious offence.

 

.