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    • happy for mod to move it to suitable location under thread title Background: Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share. This is a very long history, I appreciate your time. In 2011 I took out a £8500. loan from Borro private finance against art and jewellery to make ends meet. The agreements are attached below. This is a CCA. Borro regulated by the FCA. The interest rate is APR 68.8  % for 6 months.  I paid the interest and capital during the period term. On 3 May 2012  I renewed this loan at 79.4% interest for another 6 months.  Last week I requested all evidence the lender holds concerning the agreements. Missing are 03/05/2012 through 14/06 2013.( not under a SAR).  I fell into arrears on the loan and one piece of jewellery was sold, reducing the balance to £6400. Dec 2014.   The lender took a payment of interest £2044.16.  Renewed against the other items ( art etc) on this loan.  The new interest rate increased to 88.8%  . At the time the ring was sold, I requested all documents concerning the sale. Borro produced none. The ring is appraised at $17,5000.  £14,000.  The ring was sold for £3500.  I have an appraisal. I was notified prior to the sale. The ring was sold by "private treaty". I continued to ask for information about this sale until todays date. No information has been provided.  I took a huge loss . The ring is not clearly described on the inventory compared to the appraisal. Documents missing from Borro response to my request include 25/10/2014 to 10/04/2015. I was in arrears on this loan and a new agreement was made. The loan amount was increased to £10,810.00 and the interest rate decreased to  80%.  what is interesting is that the lender should have sold this ring, the value was sufficient to pay off my debts. But that is not what happened. someone got a deal on a nice ring.  II. ON 1, Jan 2012, I took out a second loan in the amount of £3000 against another piece of Jewellery. The interest was 68.8%. I paid the P&I on this loan.    Missing from the requested information is agreement from July 10/2012 until 12/12/2012.  I did pay interest during that period and on 12/12/2012 through 11/06/2013 I renewed  with an interest rate for 79.4 %.  I renewed on 04/07/2013 through 03/06/2014 interest rate 97.8%.  I renewed this loan on 03/01/2014 interest rate was 88.8. Take note there is very little description about this item. I redeemed the loan but ended up back in the pawn. 19/06/2014 to 18/12/2014 interest eat 94.5%. I renewed this loan again 19/03/2015 . Interest rate was 93.2%. Now there is a clearer description of the ring. Documents missing from Borro response to my request include 012/06/2013 to /10/2014 to 10/04/2015. Information on the  description is also scant until I took the loan out again in 2014. The last payment on either loan was March 2015. Default date was September 2015. The lender still has my property.   PROBLEM: In 2013, Borro became aware that the reason I had pawned these items was that I was a plaintiff in a substantial lawsuit in the US. I borrowed because I had lost my job. I was not able to work( I had been FCA regulated). I was facing eviction, had serious financial stability  and some mental health problems. I gave them a copy of the pleadings. They are aware that I had claimed these loans as part of my damages.  In 2015, Periodically I requested the accounting. Some was provided some was not. As a result, in  2016, the head of credit wrote to me " "Thank you for coming in to see me today. As discussed, we will freeze your accounts with us from today the 14th October 2016 until the 31st of December 2016. This will mean that no further interest will accrue until the 31st December 2016 and we will not consign to sale until on or after the 31st December 2016."  I did not hear from them again until  08 February 2017. On 30/03/2017 I responded to Borro request that I give them an update on the accounts. I wrote that I needed a settlement figure.  No response the following week I personally met with the manager I had been dealing with. She told me that " we are not going to sell your property". We understand that you have fallen on hard times, we are human. How long will it take you to sort this out. I responded about 2 months."   I did not hear from Borro again until I wrote to them on 18/03/2019 where I stated, " the last time we met you were going to give me a settlement figure". There was no response. As a result, on  18 March 2019 I sent  an email to - Subject: RE: Borro Accounts. Dear Lender. Hello. The last time we met, you were going to give me a settlement figure. Litigation is still ongoing. We have a potential investor that has asked me to get a figure from you. Depending on that number, I can let you know if I can pay the bill and collect my things in the next few weeks. Please get in touch as soon as possible". no response.   In early July 2019 I received a call from someone at Borro. It was not a good time. I asked him to call me back the following week. I did not hear from him again either. On  6 august 2019 I received an email from Borro that I should log into my account. I was unable to. The following week I wrote to them and in summary: On 13/08/2019 I wrote and included a summary of the events: I am writing to advise you that I am obtaining advice concerning the  account. You are aware that you have not pursued any further action on this account since approximately 2014(or earlier) . This is because I had an agreement with Name Deleted that Borro was not “going to sell my property,  I recited the above summary of events.   Certainly, I had no intention to give up valuable property for almost 8 years and pay interest and principal for this long. I want to develop a resolution to the matter between us. In order to achieve this, Please can you provide me with the following information which is attached in a spreadsheet: I need a very simple accounting and please answer the below: Any renewed loans where additional credit was extended through the re-appraisal of the assets ( ie using the asset as leverage) to extend further credit where the loan proceeds were applied to the loan for reinstatement purposes. What were the source of funds for the last payment made? Because I am seeking advice with a view towards finding a resolution, I would appreciate it if you could hold action on the above account for a period of at least 30 days to give me the time  I need to obtain advice. If you are adding interest or other charges to the account, I would be grateful if you would freeze these during this period so that my debt does not continue to increase. Please can you send me the enclosed spreadsheet and the documents you loaded into my account as soon as possible. This will enable me to obtain accurate advice. I will contact you again as soon as possible with further details of a  proposal to resolve the account. ( so far this lender has not complied with my request)   SETTLEMENT OFFER From: Borro Customer Service <Contact@borro.com> Sent: 14 August 2019 13:22 To: Subject: RE: Your Loan Account   Dear borrower. Thank you for your email and for getting in touch with Borro. As you would be aware there have been many loans with Borro, with two loans that remain outstanding which we are seeking to resolve with you. Given the significant period these have been overdue, the current balance on these two loans is almost £52,000 of which the majority is interest. In order for you to move on from this debt it is proposed to sell the collateral associated with Loan DIAMOND RING 175643 in full and final settlement and return all the items under Loan 198678 to you. This would generate a loss for Borro of approximately £49,000, however given your circumstance this is something we are prepared to offer. While I would love to pay Borro £3000. I do not currently have the funds. Borro is aware because I wrote to them on august 13 advising them i am not working. I do not want to lose my property. I need to find a way for them to walk away, give me my property back. WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS? Below are the questions I have or could raise in order to "negotiate with them". Is this a high interest short term loan? What are the effects of an CCA that has an interest rate of 93.6% and is renewed every six months? It appears that one loan was "Refinanced".  What FCA terms did they violate which might apply to this situation ? After the agreement expired and terms were changed, what rights does the PB have to collect further payments or sell the ring? Did they waive their rights to further payments? How can I use refusal to produce sale information concerning the first ring, to negotiate my way out of this? What is interesting is, they sold a £14,000 ring privately, concealed the buyer and other information, then turned around and INCREASED THE INDEBTEDNESS substantially. In fact they want to do this again, but this time are offering to  write off £49,000  in other interest. What am I missing? What effect does violations of FCA 6 and 7. help me to negotiate a settlement. Is the FOS effective threat to the firm to pressure a settlement? Does a cost cap apply to these loans and if yes what is the amount of the cap? How can I use the current appraisal and FCA or any other rules to stop them from selling the ring for less than market value? I have someone looking at the accounting to see if there are errors. found several when query. anything you can find that voids the agreements? Anything else you can think of THANK YOU!!!   RING.pdf art.pdf
    • I am so sorry I see the confusion now, I was meant to say CAB not CAG. They are just sending him letters to copy and send which doesn't seem helpful at all.    I also apologise for the vague details right now. I actually thought he had got rid of the car already until he mentioned it as he dropped me off home, so I've only got a vague idea myself, i just wanted to see if there was anything he could do other than send letters. I will get more details from him and update this thread, or get him to join as you have advised.  sorry 
    • It was a late payment, no default 
    • As he bought the car last year – well over six months ago, it's not at all clear that he will be able to terminate the contract. I think you need to let us know more about the car, new/second-hand/price/mileage and also the date of purchase. Also I think we need to have a list of the faults which occurred and which have been repaired and the faults which have occurred and which are outstanding. He will probably need to get these faults appraised by an independent inspector and also an estimate for repairs. It is highly likely that the best he can expect is to have the repairs carried out free of charge – but we need to know a lot more really. It really would be much more helpful if your brother would take control of this himself and come onto the forum and start posting a story. I don't fully understand how you say that he hasn't been here before and yet we are telling him to send letters which he thinks are being ignored.
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Hopster

Hopster v Egg

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Responding to PM.

Hi easy mistake to make

 

 

Yes SAR to OC, and if you haven't done so a CCA to the DCA.

 

I need clarity on Statute Barring and if I can get it I will be hugely grateful !

The Creditor or his agent has contaced me mases of times during the last six years, I have never admitted the debt and have ony made a payment of £10 for SAR which I didn't get. I have made contact thro' a solicitor but have never admitted the debt - any ideas ?

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I need clarity on Statute Barring and if I can get it I will be hugely grateful !

The Creditor or his agent has contaced me mases of times during the last six years, I have never admitted the debt and have ony made a payment of £10 for SAR which I didn't get. I have made contact thro' a solicitor but have never admitted the debt - any ideas ?

 

What was the nature of the contact through the solicitor?

 

The other stuff you mention has no effect on Statute Barring.


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I asked a firm of solicitors to take on the Marlin/Egg set up to see whether the Credit Agreement was unnforcable or not

- letters to Marlin for example asked for a true copy of the CCA which they failed to supply.

 

It appears that i now have two choices

- to pay up or engage in settlement negotiations or do nothing and wait to see if they enforce the agreement that I had with Egg

the outcome of which is likely to be that the judge finds for marlin which will then include interest etc.

 

Statute Barring may be an answer

- where can I find the definitive description of Satute Barring.

 

Can you please explain why the other stuff I mention has no bearing on SB ?

Thanks

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On a loan or credit card, Statute Barring in England and Wales is 6 years from the Cause of Action and with no absolute acknowledgement of the debt in writing. This would normally be six years from the date a payment was due but not made and after which no further payments were made. The time limit in Scotland is 5 years.

 

SB in England in Wales means that court action will not succeed as SB is an absolute defence. It is also an absolute defence in Scotland but they have the added bonus that after the 5 year period the debt is extinguished.

 

As you appointed a solicitor to deal with stuff on your behalf and they were acting as your authorised representative, whether their letters would be an acknowledgement of the debt would depend on the wording used.

 

Do you have your own thread running on this issue?


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own thread created for you hopster

 

 

dx


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Thank you for creating this thread for me.

Hopster

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I thik that I may have stuffed myself = in May 2011 I offered a figure in settlement of the" alleged" debt = I didn't admit to the debt but wanted to end the matter once and for all.

?

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is the debt still with EGG?

 

 

is it on yourcredit file still?

 

 

is the agreement enforceable?

 

 

have you sent the current owner a CCA request?

 

 

without an enforceable CCA

 

 

the current owner can do nowt

regardless to the SB status


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1. Now with Marlin

2. Yes

3. I don't know

 

4. Yes. the solicitors sent one and received 2 reconstituted copies of my CCA which are not identical.

 

 

The solicitors are no longer on the case.

 

 

The reconstitued agreement supplied by Marlin appears to have been constructed

using theinfo/data supplid by me when applying for the card.

 

 

This might be good enough if you take the case of Carey v HSBC where a reconstituted agreement

satisfied the court apparently.

 

 

The solicitors that were acting for me reckon that if the reconstituted agreement were to be placed

before a cout it is possible that the court would find that Marlin had complied with section 78 request

and that the agreement in enforceable - this brings int play court costs and INTEREST. !!

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if this is pre apr 2007 then they'll need the signed agreement

 

 

no ifs or buts

 

 

dx


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The beginning of 2006 is when the agreement with Egg started. it has gone around the wrekin with several Debt Collectors since it was terminated (with 161,000 others) in 2008.

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The agreement was arranged on the computer - nothing signed as such. I ticked the box to comply.

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ok

 

 

so is anyone actually chasing you?

 

 

dx


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yes - Marlin - received a letter from them in August 2014 demanding outstanding amount.

 

 

Prior to this an identical letter in February 2014 and

 

 

prior to that one in August 2013

 

 

Incidentally I did NOT send an offer in May 2011 as I had originally thought (see earlier message).

 

 

I am tempted to send them a statute barred letter.

 

 

The only payment to them was £10 SAR request which was never answered.

 

so is anyone actually chasing you?

 

 

dx

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no debt this way just helping.

 

 

what is the defaulted date in the summary of the debt on your credit file?

 

 

dx


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Default notice from Egg dated August 2008. I don't know if there is anything diffrent on my credit file - I will see what I can find.

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I have just checked and there is a default date on my record of about half of the balance dated March 2009. Is this of any signifiance ?

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so march next year it is removed totally.

 

 

ideally it should be the same ish date as the DN you got.


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Sorry - what is removed and wh plese ?

Do you think that I should send marlin a Statute Barred letter in view of previous messages between us ?

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Default notice from Egg dated August 2008. I don't know if there is anything diffrent on my credit file - I will see what I can find.

 

 

The Date on the Default Notice has no relevance to the actual Date Defaulted as shown on credit files, this date is the one that governs when the entry is removed from CRA files paid or not on the 6th anniversary of said date.


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You said that in 2011 you offered a payment in settlement of the debt. That in itself could be construed as an acknowledgement of the debt.

 

You then say you didn't do this.....which one is it?

 

Also you need to consider what language the solicitors used when they were in correspondence....I mentioned this above.

 

You might be lucky and get away with a claim of SB but personally I would want to be sure. It would, however put the onus on them to show that it is not SB.

 

Also consider what dx has said about the enforceability aspect.


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7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

 

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I DON'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM BUT IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

 

 

 

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No

- I did not make an offer to settle the debt

- that was another case that I am sruggling with !

 

 

I repeat I did not make an offer to Marlin/Egg/Barclaycard.

 

 

Sorry for the mix up.

 

 

The only payment made ws for an SAR for which I didn't receive an answer.

 

What is the best way of putting the onus on them to show that it is not SB ?

 

 

Is there a standard letter on the forum somewhere ?

Thx again

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There is an SB letter in the CAG library. By sending it you then await their reply. They will either agree that it is SB or they will not. If they don't agree they may provide their reasoning. If they don't provide their reasons then you get them to tell you why they think it is not SB.


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1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

Read Here

5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

6. Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

 

How To Upload Documents To Cag

Instructions

 

I DON'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM BUT IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

 

 

 

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are perhaps inappropriate for posting on the main forum. Site rules explain this in more detail.

 

If you receive a private message which you consider abusive, derogatory or otherwise inappropriate, whether it be about yourself or other members, please report it using the "report" icon

 

If you are approached (or have been approached) by private message with an offer of help "Off Forum" or with a view to asking you to visit another website, please inform the site team via the report icon, especially if this results in a request for a fee. Remember, this is for your own protection

my views are my own and are given in good faith to try and help people. Please seek professional advice on your case if necessary

 

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No

- I did not make an offer to settle the debt

- that was another case that I am sruggling with !

 

 

I repeat I did not make an offer to Marlin/Egg/Barclaycard.

 

 

Sorry for the mix up.

 

 

The only payment made ws for an SAR for which I didn't receive an answer.

 

What is the best way of putting the onus on them to show that it is not SB ?

 

 

Is there a standard letter on the forum somewhere ?

Thx again

 

 

 

Hopster, can you clarify which of the two dates you refer to as default date an a default notice (2008 &2009) is the default date shown on your credit files??


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