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cap quest stat demand - help needed!***WON + COSTS***


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Hi all,

 

I have received a stat demand by post today - I've been reading up what to do but seems some conflicting ideas and i'm confusing myself.

 

The debt is £4900 from a capital one credit card. I sent them a cca request 10/12/07 and the document I got back didnt comply (not dated, not signed by myself or them) and have kept the correspondence, so I've just ignored it. passed on to capquest so ignored them until now!

What way is best to procced please?

 

Neil

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I sent them a cca request 10/12/07 and the document I got back didnt comply (not dated, not signed by myself or them)

 

It doesn't have to have any dates or signatures to comply - you need to do some more reading.

 

What way is best to procced please?

 

Have a read of this post by 42man:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/187327-statutory-demand-received-advice.html#post2016172

 

and you may also want to search for other posts by him

 

Regards

 

nicklea

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Hi Neil,

Is there any charges added to the account, also have you received a copy of the assignment?

Nicklea is correct in suggesting you look for posts by 42man, he is excellent at helping with SD's and will no doubt be along soon to offer advice. Not sure how to post a link, but if you search for my capquest thread, hopefully it might be of use and feel free to ask if you feel I can help.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/165140-received-statutory-demand-capquest.html#post1775572

Dibs.

Don't know if i'm coming or going!

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after a lot of reading none seem to be exactly like my situation but i think my application for a set aside could under three things:

 

Stat demand not served properly - can't find record of default notice and delivered by post.

 

CCA - in nov 2007 received unenforacble agreement from capital one - I've never CCA'D Capquest directly or told them capital one didn't comply is it too late to cca capquest?

 

Charges - there may or may not be illegal charges on the account, I don't know? too late to find out?

 

ideas comeents would be great!

 

ty

 

NEIL

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Stat demand not served properly - can't find record of default notice and delivered by post.

 

It depends what they're claiming for - they might not need a default notice and so this is not grounds for getting it set aside.

 

A statutory Demand is just sent to you in the post - why do you think that it is not properly served? This is not grounds for getting it set aside

 

CCA - in nov 2007 received unenforacble agreement from capital one - I've never CCA'D Capquest directly or told them capital one didn't comply is it too late to cca capquest?

 

You say here that it is unenforceable, but in your first post you said that they sent you an agreement following your s77/78 request that ws fine apart from hagin no signature - it doesn't have to have a signature. If this is the only reason why you feel the agreement is unenforceable then this is not grounds to get the SD set aside

 

Charges - there may or may not be illegal charges on the account, I don't know? too late to find out?

 

Unless the charges bring the amount owed to less than £750 then it doesn't matter and it wouldn't be grounds to get the SD set aside.

 

It appears that the only possibility you have to get is set aside is if the creditor named on the SD is capquest and then the grounds are that the notice of assignment was not sufficiently served on you (they never do serve it properly)

 

regards

 

Nicklea

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It depends what they're claiming for - they might not need a default notice and so this is not grounds for getting it set aside.

 

A statutory Demand is just sent to you in the post - why do you think that it is not properly served? This is not grounds for getting it set aside

 

OK, i think i'm getting muddled up with your last point!

 

 

 

You say here that it is unenforceable, but in your first post you said that they sent you an agreement following your s77/78 request that ws fine apart from hagin no signature - it doesn't have to have a signature. If this is the only reason why you feel the agreement is unenforceable then this is not grounds to get the SD set aside

 

cap one sent a generic credit agreement with my details at the top - they didn't omit my signature as there is no where for me to put it. also there is no date on it. the penalty charges are £12 on there and would have been £20 odd at the time I opened my account. From other threads my understanding is, If they can actually find the original one it will just be an application form and will be unenforcable. Can I ask to see the original executed ca at the hearing? then get it set aside when they can't produce or it won't comply?

 

Unless the charges bring the amount owed to less than £750 then it doesn't matter and it wouldn't be grounds to get the SD set aside.

 

This is a no goer then!

 

It appears that the only possibility you have to get is set aside is if the creditor named on the SD is capquest and then the grounds are that the notice of assignment was not sufficiently served on you (they never do serve it properly)

 

The creditor on it is capquest -can you explain this please or suggest further reading?

 

regards

 

Nicklea

 

Thanks for your help - its much appreciated.

 

Neil

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Thanks for the thread to read 42man - I'm not sure how it works in realtionship to mine though? (I may well just be being thick though! :roll:) I want to dispute that they can produce a valid ca signed by me and that either the notice of assignment or stat demand weren't served correctly (I think?) whilst the other thread is where there is no debt in the first place?

 

ty,

 

 

Neil

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nmj,

 

It can be difficult to give advice without knowing the full details of what has happened.

 

For example, does this relate to a loan or a credit card and if it is a loan has the original term of the loan expired? Next, just how are capquest wording the SD, are they making reference to arrears or not? In any correspondence you've had with the original creditor or with Capquest has there been any reference to the account having been terminated.

 

The answers to these questions will help to determine if they needed to have sent a DN.

 

Under s77/78 CCA the creditor does NOT have to supply you with a document with your signature on.

 

However, they do have to have that document if they intend to take you to court. If they have not shown that to you then one of your reasons for requesting the SD is set aside is that you deny that the creditor has an enforceable agreement. Have a look around for some examples of how set aside applications have been written where it is denied that there is an enforceable agreement in existence

 

The Notice of Assignment is one area that they have to do properly and never do. If you search for this (the search function is very useful) you will see some examples, eg:-

 

Assignment of the Alleged Debt

 

1) I submit that any alleged assignment of this debt to the Respondant, [put Capquest name in here spelled the same as it is on the claim form], is ineffective and so the Respondant has no standing before the court.

 

2) The Law of Property Act 1925 is the relevant act that deals with the assignment of debts. Section 136(1) requires that for the assignment of a debt to be effective, express notice in writing must have been given to the debtor:-

 

136. Legal assignments of things in action.

— (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice—

 

Section 196(4) prescribes the requirements for giving sufficient notice by post:-

 

196. Regulations respecting notices.

4) Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall also be sufficiently served, if it is sent by post in a registered letter addressed to the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, by name, at the aforesaid place of abode or business, office, or counting-house, and if that letter is not returned [by the postal operator (within the meaning of the Postal Services Act 2000) concerned] undelivered; and that service shall be deemed to be made at the time at which the registered letter would in the ordinary course be delivered.

 

It is noted that by the Recorded Delivery Service Act 1962 a recorded delivery letter is equivalent to a registered letter and that under the Postal Services Act 2000 Schedule 8 any reference to registered post is to be construed as meaning a registered postal service (eg Royal Mail recorded delivery or special delivery).

 

3) For the assignment of a debt to be effective and so giving the Respondant a right of action a valid Notice of Assignment must have been sufficiently served on me using a registered postal service pursuant to s196(4) before court action is commenced. It is denied that any notice of assignment was sufficiently served on me and so the Claimant has no right of action.

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The particulars of debt are:

 

"The debt relates to the unpaid balance of sums due under Credit agreement dated made between Mr ***** and capital one bank limited in respect of credit card number *********** the agreement terminated upon the failure of Mr ***** to comply with the terms of the agreement and/or a statutory notice of default served by capital one bank ltd.

 

The rights and duties of capital one bank ltd passed to the Creditor pursuant to an assignment dated 06 Nov 08

 

The total amount due as at the date is £5000 which includes intrest of 0.00 which has accrued since the assignment of the debt."

 

"under Credit agreement dated made" suggests they haven't got the credit agreement to me - I'll have a good search re other setasides because of this. They definatley haven't sent the assigment of debt by registered post, so thats a good start!

 

ty

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plan of action I've come up with:

 

CCA capquest first thing tomorrow - I'm confident either they won't have any credit agreement or if they do it wont be enforcable - will be four days before my set a side needs to go in when their 12 is up. so just time to get sorted.

 

Use the defence re incorrectly follwing procedures for assigning debt as well.

 

 

 

Right course of action anybody?

 

ty

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You need to dispute the debt substantially.....

 

so for example....

 

The alleged creditor has not supplied a signed/dated/valid agreement that contains the prescribed terms as per Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The alleged creditor has failed to supply statements for the duration of the agreement, it not being uncommon that some debts are made up entirely of excessive and unlawful penalty charges.

 

The alleged creditor has failed to provde a valid default notice in the prescribed format as laid down in the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The alleged creditor has failed to provide any notice/s of assignment.

 

And if you need the relevant case laws have a look here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/185462-bankruptcy-petition-recieved-help.html

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi can someone have a look at what i'm intending to put in the affadavit please? only got a day or so to get it in! :eek:

 

 

ty,

 

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

 

I dispute the alleged debt. The alleged creditor has not supplied a valid agreement that contains the prescribed terms as per Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act, A formal written request for any true copies of signed consumer credit agreements was sent to CapQuest. via recorded delivery on the 07/04/09 (see attached document 1) to date they have not sent any copies of any Consumer Credit Agreements. A previous request was sent to Capital one bank 29/11/07 and no true copy of a signed agreement was provided to me.

 

I believe there are no properly executed signed Consumer Credit Agreements, If they had been able to supply these agreements then they would have done already to avoid going into default under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act

 

SECTION 78 (1) CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and..

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

The Consumer Credit Act in section 78(6) States that

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

 

 

 

It must also be noted that the agreement must contain the prescribed terms.

 

Consumer Credit Act

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

(N.B - For the avoidance of doubt the 2006 Consumer Credit Act does not change the above legislation……

 

The Consumer Credit Act 2006 (Commencement No. 2 and Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2007 (No. 123 (C. 6))

Citation

1. This Order may be cited as the Consumer Credit Act 2006 (Commencement No.2 and Transitional Provisions) Order 2007.

Interpretation

2. In this Order “the 2006 Act” means the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

Commencement

3. — (1) The provisions of the 2006 Act specified in Schedule 1 shall come into force on 31st January 2007.

(2) The provisions of the 2006 Act specified in Schedule 2 shall come into force on 6th April 2007.

Transitional Provisions

4. Subject to article 5, section 1 of the 2006 Act shall have no effect for the purposes of the 1974 Act, in relation to agreements made before 6th April 2007. (cont)

5. Section 1 of the 2006 Act shall have effect for the purposes of the definitions of “debtor” and “hirer” in section 189(1) of the 1974 Act wherever those expressions are used in—

a)

sections 77A, 78(4A), 86A, 86B, 86C, 86D, 86E, 86F, 129(1)(ba) 129A, 130A and 187A of the 1974 Act;

(b)

section 143(b) of the 1974 Act in respect of an application under section 129(1)(ba) of that Act; and

©

section 185(2) to (2C) of the 1974 Act insofar as it relates to a dispensing notice from a debtor authorising a creditor not to comply in the debtor's case with section 77A of that Act,

in relation to agreements made before 6 April 2007)

Edited by nmj73
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I would also pick out a few from here too...

 

REFERENCE TO CASE LAW

  • As the creditor has not provided the credit agreement Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40 states that:
    ‘….the effect of the failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 was that the entire agreement ………….. was unenforceable. The statutory bar on its enforcement extended to First County Trusts's right to recover the total sum payable on redemption, which included the principal as well as interest.’

SUMMARY OF WILSON v FIRST COUNTY TRUST LTD (2003) UKHL 40

 

THE WILSON CASE MADE IT CLEAR THAT IN THE EVENT OF NO ACCEPTABLE CONSUMER CREDIT AGREEMENT THEN THE CREDITOR COULD NOT RECOVER MONIES OWED UNDER ORDINARY CONTRACT LAW REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY COULD PROVE THE DEBT EXISTED OR NOT – THIS WAS THE DECISION OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND SHOULD THEREFORE BE BINDING IN THIS COURT

 

The law states that without a prescribed agreement the courts may not enforce under 127(3) and

 

1.In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said , at page 1131:-

 

“Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.”

 

2.Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor in Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633 said at para 26 that in the case of an unenforceable agreement:-

 

“The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;”

 

I refer to LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD in the House of Lords Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) paragraph 29

” The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order.”

 

If the agreements are, as I expect, unenforceable by law or if no written agreement exists, then the respondent was in error when it stated that a liquidated and legally enforceable sum was due to the respondent at the time the demand was issued.

 

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

 

 

The Need for a Default notice

  • Notwithstanding the above, it is also drawn to the courts attention that no default notice required by s87 (1) Consumer Credit act 1974 has been attached to the petition.

  • It is denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

  • Notwithstanding the above points, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

  • Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants demand falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

  • Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

The Defendant denies that he is liable to the Claimant as alleged in the demand. It is averred that the alleged ORIGINAL CREDITOR has served a valid notice of assignment in accordance with section 136(1), of the Law of Property Act 1925, in respect of the alleged debt. The amount detailed in the Claimant’s claim, which is likely to include penalty charges, which are unlawful at Common Law, Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Company Ltd v New Garage and Motor Company Ltd [1915], under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Accordingly, the inclusion of penalty charges in the purported Notice of Assignment renders it entirely legally unenforceable.

 

W.F.Harrison and Co Ltd v Burke [1956].

The defendant requires sight of the notice of assignment of the debt. In addition the defendant requires proof of service of the Notice of Assignment in accordance with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which is required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action in their own name since it appears this is an assigned debt. the reason the defendant requests this information is inter alia to clarify the dates are correctly stated on all documents , the defendant notes that if there are errors in the assignment it may be rendered in effectual in law per W F Harrison and Co Ltd v Burke and another - [1956] 2 All ER 169

 

Law Of Property - s136 Legal assignments of things in action

(1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice-

(a) the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b) all legal and other remedies for the same; and

© the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

 

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice-

(a) that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b) of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;

he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the Trustee Act, 1925

 

 

Rights and Duties

CCA74 s189(1)

“ creditor “ means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

 

CCA74 189 (1)

“ debtor “ means the individual receiving credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement includes the prospective debtor

 

 

Abuse of Process

 

A statutory demand must show a named person or persons from the Creditor or their agent/solicitor whom you can contact directly. This is Rule 6.2 of The insolvency Rules 1986.

This means that if the statutory demand doesn't give the name of a person you can speak to then it is not valid. If you try to contact the named person and they won’t put you through then it is also invalid

 

I have on 3 separate occasions attempted to speak to the named contact but on each occasion I have been denied the chance to speak to that person.

 

(log the times and dates here)

 

I refer to:

 

Judge Boggis QC - RE AWAN - [2000] BPIR 241

 

'In my judgment, bankruptcy is one of the most serious forms of execution that can be brought against a debtor. In any bankruptcy proceedings it is, in my view, absolutely clear that the provisions as to service must be followed exactly. - JUDGE BOGGIS QC - SITTING AS A JUDGE OF THE HIGH COURT

 

On the above information I request that the demand is set aside and I kindly ask the the judge award my costs in this matter as a LITIGANT IN PERSON.

 

I also request the judge order the alleged claimant to remove any adverse data on my credit files.

 

I also request the judge consider making an indemnity award in light of the upset and inconvenience that this has caused me and my family.

 

I also make the request that the judge orders a bankruptcy restraining order against the alleged creditor

 

In support of this request, I would also like to refer the court’s attention to the authority of the High Court in the case of:-

 

Hammonds (a firm) v Pro-Fit USA Ltd [2007] EWHC 1998 (Ch)

 

In this case, Mr Justice Warren confirmed that it was usual for an indemnity award to be made:-

 

27 So far as disputed debts are concerned, the practice of the court is not to allow the insolvency regime to be used as a method of debt collection where there is a bona fide and substantial dispute as to the debt

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ty - I've added a bit to it re case law etc. I went to the court earlier to pick up the forms. there doesn't seem to be anywhere near enough room to handwrite it all in. the files i've found online are pdfs and won't let me paste into them? is there anyway around this please? plus I dont have a printer so need to save it and email it to a friend to print off.

 

Neil

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have now got a court date of 20th may and a response from capquest to the court:

 

"We do not accept that the debt is not due, but in view of time considrations and use of the court's time we ask that the application be granted but with no order as to costs. If, as we anticipate we subsequently obtain information which enables us to prove that the debt is due, we will proceed by issuing a claim in the county court which will allow the applicant the oppurtunity to defend the claim"

 

seems good news to me! :-D a couple of questions though:

 

do I still attend court?

 

Shall I still put in my costs - if so what's a reasonable amount and how should it all be set out?

 

A big thanks to everyone who's helped me with this!

 

Neil

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Do you still attend court ? YES.....

 

Costs ? YES.....

 

If they attempt to give you a statutory demand (without having a full portfolio of paperwork - agreement, default notice etc etc) then they should face the consequences of the defendant setting it aside...in general the courts do NOT like the insolvency service being used as a tool for debt collection purposes...Capquest just hope and pray that people like you aren't going to defend !!

 

You can use this form here - but you'll need to change the title to LITIGANT IN PERSON costs (you need to submit your costs to the court 24 hours beforehand) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/156641-capquest-statutory-demand-help-4.html

 

Claim back £6 per letter written

Postage

Parking

£9.25 per hour for your research (for example 25 hours research into Consumer Credit Law / Insolvency Law)

Add 40p per mile (or if you sit in traffic for 2 hours claim back £9.25 per hour as travelling time)

You can also ask for time taken off work too to attend....

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How long does it take for them to send a SD? Have had a letter from Capquest about Capital One Visa card (debt £1138.96) saying they had 'investigated my current financial position' (Im on benefits including Disability - have been for about 8 years), and that the SD will be completed on or around 8th May. So how long will it be before they serve it? And how can they investigate my financial position? Can I ask them?

Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum

 

The great thing is to know when to speak and when to keep quiet.

 

(Seneca the Younger (attributed), Proverbs, 74)

 

 

Speech is given to many; intelligence to few - but if its well said, I said it!

:p

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Have had a letter ... about Capital One Visa card (debt £1138.96) saying they had 'investigated my current financial position' ... and that the SD will be completed on or around 8th May. So how long will it be before they serve it? And how can they investigate my financial position? Can I ask them?

 

 

No need to bother with this one peeps, I've handed the case over to Drummond & Co (Lawyers) t/a Sh** Stirres of Wessex as I cant deal with the amount of things I have to look into. Dont have the strength of mind or body.

 

Sorry if it seems like a copout :(

Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum

 

The great thing is to know when to speak and when to keep quiet.

 

(Seneca the Younger (attributed), Proverbs, 74)

 

 

Speech is given to many; intelligence to few - but if its well said, I said it!

:p

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Went court today - Capquest never turned up so Judge immedialty set aside :D !!!!

 

I asked him about costs - he awarded me £60 as he said my claim was excessive :eek: i'd put 17hrs for work on docs + 1/2 hr for hearing and an hour waiting/travelling. He said although I was a litigant in person, he would only award me 5 hrs on documents as thats what a lawyer would have taken on it! on the way back I thought I should have said Lawyers cost's would have been £60 ph so I was still cheaper but didn't think/ have the balls to say it at time!!

 

A really big thank you to everyone at CAG for helping me with this :)

 

whats the next step? wait and see capquests next move? I thought about offering them the £60 as full and final serttlement if they remove the data from my credit files? any chance they'd go for that do u think?

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