A bit stuck, unfair terms??????

[c_allen]

Hi, i'm struggling with this one.

I have a friend who booked a couple of weeks at a "boot camp" to help him to lose weight, he spoke on the phone prior to booking to explain that he was already on a very minimal diet, as recommended by his doctor, and exercised as much as was healthy, so he was concerned that he would put the weight straight back on, they said that they can't guarantee that but if he followed the diet and execise program then he should have no problem.

So he booked 2 weeks for consecutive months.

When he arrived for the first one, he and several others complained that the facilities where not as promised, it turned out that the company had only just bought the place and it was not up to scratch, very little by way of indoor facilities. Now baring in mind this was Janurary this year this was a major problem, anyway he arrived on Friday and they were only exercising outdoors, then the snow came on the monday so no more exercise was possible outside, after much complaining the "camp" was cancelled on the wednesday, they were offered either a £500.00 refund or another "camp" at a reduced rate, he chose another "camp" but insisted it was at another site. He then was told that he would have to pay £150.00 to "upgrade" to a luxury "camp", not really fair but not the main issue.

He attended and lost loads of weight, well pleased, until the next week when he'd put ALL the weight back on, he'd stuck to the diet, to the letter, he also kept to the exercise program( who wouldn't after spending over £2000.00).

Obviously concerned about this he e-mailed them and they said he should see a doctor as it was impossible to gain that much weight in 1 week if he had followed instructions. He saw a doctor who said that there was no way that what they had told him could work as it was the same diet and exercise program he was already following before he went to camp.

OK the main point of this is he them tried to cancel the next camp he had paid for, only to be told that he wouldn't get a penny back so might as well go on the camp.

Here is the T&C's regarding refunds,,,,,,,,

 

6. Cancellation and refunds

Should the Client wish to cancel cancellation charges will be imposed. These are calculated from the date written notification is received by BC at their Head Office and shall be calculated as a percentage of the total price and shall be based on the following.

Cancellation Charges

Number of days before arrival date that the written notification of cancellation is received:-

Amount payable

6 weeks or less: Total fee is due no refund.

Less than 12 weeks: 75% of the full cost will be due to BC

Less than 18 weeks: 50% of the full cost will be due to BC

There is a 30% handling fee of the full activity/course price if we receive notice of cancellation or reschedule/ transfer more than 21 days in advance of the scheduled activity/course date.

If you cancel or want to reschedule/ transfer 14 days or less in advance for any reason there are no refunds. There are no exceptions.

Participants who don’t show up for activities forfeit the full cost.

I do hope this explains your points and obviously your place is open at present if you would like to attend but please verify if this is the case. It would be a pleasure to have you return XXXXXXXXX. If you do feel that you would like to cancel your place still then you may want to look at retrieving your payment through travel insurance as it is a personal medical issue.

 

These look unfair in the extreme to me, in fact i'd say they were penalties. Help please

[flyingdoc]

Your friend will have to decide not to go to camp and then try and get his money back through the courts. I would certainly argue that this might fall within the definition of an unfair term (4.5 months notice for this kind of thing seems excessive)

 

However - you are not cancelling over 4 months ahead - you are cancelling only a few weeks which is a different kettle of fish.

 

 

I am also suspicious of how he lost this LOADS OF WEIGHT (was he passing a lot of urine?)

 

One cheat to promote rapid weight loss is to lose water - this can be achieved with excercise and through certain foods (and even more dangerously with drugs).

 

Once the client stops eating the specific foods (or drugs) the body rectifies its fluid balance (provided not permanent damage has been done) and the weight goes back on.

 

This sounds like what may have happened here and that this "camp" is run by snake oil salesmen

 

I wouldnt go back to the camp as it may be hazardous to health and I would speak to the OFT and trading standards and even watchdog about it to see if there is anything else can be done.

[c_allen]

Hi Doc and thanx for your reply:D

The weightloss was from upto 8 hour of exercise per day as far as I know.

He's been e-mailing about getting his money back since jan, because that facilities weren't upto scratch on his first visit, he wanted to cancel but was told he couldn't as he'd lose all his money, so he went to the rescheduled week, since he gain all the weight back so fast he then questioned them and they have been delaying his formal request by offering advice and "internal discussions". But even so there T&C's stink, they are so one sided it's amazing they can get away with it, I mean they cancelled part way through the week and have to refund less than 50%, but for him to get 50% back he has to cancel 4.5 months in advance!

My feeling is that this in itself is an unfair term,,,,,

Amount payable

6 weeks or less: Total fee is due no refund.

Less than 12 weeks: 75% of the full cost will be due to BC

Less than 18 weeks: 50% of the full cost will be due to BC

 

I mean thats an enormous % to claim for those timescales, they look like penalties to me?

I'm trying to get a letter together for him and would like to know if i'm thinking along the right lines? Theres no way that those figures can be justified as costs, I could sort of understand if it was called a non refundable deposit (although I would still argue with that) but it's not, it says charges, just like bank charges, just because it say so in the T&C's doesn't make them lawful.

 

I guess what I'm asking is,,

1. Do these term fall foul of the UTTC's?

2. Do they count as penalties under common law?

Thanx

[flyingdoc]

That would be for a judge to decide.

 

I would certainly think that these terms satisfy the criteria to be deemed unfair - but until they are tested in court we will not know.

[c_allen]

Thanx Doc, thats what I needed to know.

If anyone else has any opinions or advice I'd been very greatful:D.

I'm drafting a letter and will post it up for opinions if you don't mind