Help – Bipolar Sufferer signs unregulated credit agreement!!!

[joemay]

My husband suffered a breakdown and was being treated for depression. He went out one day and purchased an expensive car with an Unregulated HP credit agreement, which was totally out of character as he had always been careful with money and hadn’t had anything on HP before.

 

A few things happened, which resulted in his GP referring him to local Mental Health Team. After many appointments with Psychiatrist and numerous different medications, he was finally diagnosed with Bipolar Affect Disorder. Psychiatrist had informed us that his uncharacteristic spending , was unfortunately, one of the many symptoms of Bipolar, and the medication he was taking for depression, had in fact, assisted/added to it. Our debt situation in more detail: HELP...Are there guidline for DCA's deailing with Mental Health Patients

After 6 months of having the car, HP company took it back, sold it at auction (for £20k less than the credit agreement amount), and are now looking for the shortfall. I spoke with the HP Co before repossession and asked if we could sell it privately in order to try and recover as much money as possible to pay to them, but was given a flat refusal. Just to add, I had contacted the HP company informing them that he could not afford the repayments.

 

It is fair to say, that my Husband was not in the right state of mind, and that he properly had no regard (or even read) the terms and conditions, and did not understand the consequences, as he was at an elated stage of Bipolar.

 

I’m sure, that if I asked the HP company to consider writing off the shortfall, taking all the above into consideration, that they will refuse, but as we are unable to pay, it would have to remain on £1 token payments, (as explained in original thread). I am of the assumption that they would go for a CCJ.

 

What I need advise on is :

What is the likelihood that the court would take his mental condition, at the time of purchase, into consideration?? Is it possible that they would agree he wasn’t fully responsible for his action because of his condition??

If the court issues the CCJ would the court costs be added to the shortfall balance??

Any help, advice or guidance would be much appreciated. Do you know of anyone else who has been in this position before? My husband has suffered enough, the consequences are cruel, his burden of guilt for the debt he has incurred, is overwhelming.

 

Thank you.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Joemay,

So sorry to hear of your circumstances. I'm pretty new here myself but one of the experts will no doubt be along soon to answer some of your questions.

In the meantime, have you sent a Subject Access Request to the Hire Company yet? I would be wanting some proof of how much they got for the car.

Armed with full details of the account, including the original agreement, post it up on here and you'll get help on the best way forward.

All the best,

Elsa x

[cerberusalert]

I think you should get in touch with your local Law Centre About Law Centres and arrange a free appointment so you can discuss if there is any way you can get this agreement overturned on the grounds of his medical condition at the time it was entered into.

[joemay]

Hi Joemay,

So sorry to hear of your circumstances. I'm pretty new here myself but one of the experts will no doubt be along soon to answer some of your questions.

In the meantime, have you sent a Subject Access Request to the Hire Company yet? I would be wanting some proof of how much they got for the car.

Armed with full details of the account, including the original agreement, post it up on here and you'll get help on the best way forward.

All the best,

Elsa x

 

Hi Nuse-Elsa, Thanks for responding.

 

They sent a letter stating car sold for, £12,837, shortfall is £20600. Have a copy of HP Agreement, but appears to have page 2 of 4 missing, strange as they are stapled together. Quite shocked at the figures on agreement, haven't really studied them in detail til now, all with what been going on, even husband can't believe he went for it. Car cost £25,038, they added £11,211.60 charges, plus £149 acceptance fee, plus £85 credit facility fee, total balance £36,483.60.

 

No doubt, the car was bought in auction by a large secondhand car dealer (prob, same who husb bought from), who would mark up price, then arrange HP with same HP company, who would then add on £11k charges, + acceptance fee+ etc.,).

 

Do you think I should still SAR them considering I have letter and agreement (bar page 2)? Not sure if the agreement can be challenged as its unregulated.

 

Thanks:)

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Joemay,

I'm not qualified to comment on the interest charges etc...what do you think about them Cerberusalert?

All I can say is if it were me I'd definitely SAR them and insist they provide proof of sale price, ie a copy of receipt/ bill of sale..not just a letter from them..they could make anything up.

You could then take the full documentation to the Law Centre as Cerberusalert suggests.

Also any chance of getting a letter from your OH's specialist confirming diagnosis and symptoms ie tendency to spend in manic phase without understanding consequences etc?

There are some top notch people on here so stick at it they'll help you through it.

Take care,

Elsa x

[joemay]

Thanks Elsa,

 

Spoke with OHs care worker, they would be able happy to provide statement. The debt has been passed to DCA and they are currently accepting token payment of £1 should I maybe just wait until they start getting heavy before I request SAR?

 

Would be grateful for input from others or if anyone else has had to deal with this kind of situation.

 

Thanks

Joemay

[Undercover-Elsa]

Bumping up for the morning shift!

I personally would still send for the SAR..you having a copy of the agreement and them having a full, legible copy are 2 different matters, plus theres still the sale amount to query. They'll undoubtedly come back at you for more money at some stage..it's up to you whether you SAR them now or later .

I'd take your OH's care worker up on that, get a "To whoever it may concern" letter then it's ready to copy and send when needed.

Well done, you're on your way to taking control.

Elsa x

 

PS...Expert comments on the (exorbitant!!??) interest and this type of agreement would be appreciated

[joemay]

Bumping up for the morning shift!

I personally would still send for the SAR..you having a copy of the agreement and them having a full, legible copy are 2 different matters, plus theres still the sale amount to query. They'll undoubtedly come back at you for more money at some stage..it's up to you whether you SAR them now or later .

I'd take your OH's care worker up on that, get a "To whoever it may concern" letter then it's ready to copy and send when needed.

Well done, you're on your way to taking control.

Elsa x

 

PS...Expert comments on the (exorbitant!!??) interest and this type of agreement would be appreciated

 

Thanks Elsa:)

 

Anyone other advise would be grately appreciated.

 

Joemay

[Undercover-Elsa]

Bumping for help:)

[cerberusalert]

You need to scan the documents, remove identifying details & post them back up here so we can determine whether the agreement is enforceable. Sometimes they do make mistakes when they draw them up, but it would need someone with the know how to cast an eye over them....although their are a few people here capable.

 

Unregulated loans are a pain in the proverbial for a lot of reasons so it would need someone with experience of them to form an opinion. That's why I suggested earlier about getting professional advice through the Law Centre, also they can address the issue of your husbands health problem with respect to the enforceability of the agreement.

 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I have very little knowledge of these types of agreements & the last thing I want to do is give bad advice or raise false hopes.

[abbacus]

CSA Guidelines advise their members (DCAs) not to take Court action where mentally ill debtors are involved as it could be used as a defence.

[joemay]

You need to scan the documents, remove identifying details & post them back up here so we can determine whether the agreement is enforceable. Sometimes they do make mistakes when they draw them up, but it would need someone with the know how to cast an eye over them....although their are a few people here capable.

 

Unregulated loans are a pain in the proverbial for a lot of reasons so it would need someone with experience of them to form an opinion. That's why I suggested earlier about getting professional advice through the Law Centre, also they can address the issue of your husbands health problem with respect to the enforceability of the agreement.

 

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I have very little knowledge of these types of agreements & the last thing I want to do is give bad advice or raise false hopes.

 

I totally understand what you say, not wanting to give advice, if you have little knowledge in this area. Was just hoping that someone may have had some dealings with a situation like this.

 

I will get intouch with the Law Centre and see what they can advise. I'll update the thread, just incase anyone out there in future has a similar situation.

 

Again thanks:D

[joemay]

CSA Guidelines advise their members (DCAs) not to take Court action where mentally ill debtors are involved as it could be used as a defence.

 

Thats interesting! I was of the impression that they make take advantage of the fact that there is a health issue, push forward for CCJ, hoping defendant wouldn't respond.

 

Thank you for that:D

[stardust_john]

I'm keeping an eye on this thread as I am mentally ill and was that fact was previously exploited to the extent dca's told me I would lose my kids if I didnt pay. I stopped payment due to no cca response years later and they started up again with threats recently, they said you have been happily paying for years, why stop and I said I was pressured into to it and they said is that why you are needing a cca and I said yes. STILL NO CCA so will consider taking them to court for distress etc if they dont treat me with respect:-x

 

I lost a soul mate also and went downhill and hardly leave the house for fear of being followed. Another creditor has ignored letters and are threatening court action and my attitude is now dont let it make me worse court action would probably be in my best interest as it would stop dca's contacting me.

[harrassed senior]

Hi, This was done to my sister who had very bad heart problems and was clinically depressed, having been told of this (with valid proof provided), they entered a ccj knowing she was in hospital and would not defend.

 

As a family we did try and have this set aside but in the end the DCA 'accepted' that no payments could be made.

 

That was 2006, has been in the hands of several DCAs all threatening to take to Court, none realising that a CCJ had already been obtained. The last one was told and we have yet to hear back from them.

 

The moral of this is to keep a very close eye on all mail sent to OH.

[abbacus]

Don't forget that in their dealings with mentally ill people banks/DCAs must also make reasonable adjustments under the Disability Discrimination Act 2005.

[joemay]

I'm keeping an eye on this thread as I am mentally ill and was that fact was previously exploited to the extent dca's told me I would lose my kids if I didnt pay. I stopped payment due to no cca response years later and they started up again with threats recently, they said you have been happily paying for years, why stop and I said I was pressured into to it and they said is that why you are needing a cca and I said yes. STILL NO CCA so will consider taking them to court for distress etc if they dont treat me with respect:-x

 

I lost a soul mate also and went downhill and hardly leave the house for fear of being followed. Another creditor has ignored letters and are threatening court action and my attitude is now dont let it make me worse court action would probably be in my best interest as it would stop dca's contacting me.

 

Have you requested the CCA with a letter or over the phone? If it was over the phone then send them the CCA request letter with £1 postal order.

 

If you have requested by letter and it has passed the 42 + 2 days then send the "default under CCA" letter. They may sit up and take notice and treat you with the respect you deserve.

[lunar jim]

Have you requested the CCA with a letter or over the phone? If it was over the phone then send them the CCA request letter with £1 postal order.

 

If you have requested by letter and it has passed the 42 + 2 days then send the "default under CCA" letter. They may sit up and take notice and treat you with the respect you deserve.

 

12+2 days

[joemay]

12+2 days

 

Sorry does the 30 day after the 12+2 not apply anymore:)

[harrassed senior]

Sorry does the 30 day after the 12+2 not apply anymore:)

 

That part was deleted from the Act in 2008, although many DCAs have still to catch up with their reading!!

[joemay]

Thank you:)

[42man]

I'm not sure if you had seen this but if not this should be very useful... - Money Advice Trust - Debt and Mental Health Resources

[caro]

Thanks to 42man for this link which may offer some help. Money Advice Trust - Debt and Mental Health Resources

[joemay]

Yes thank you

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Joe_May,

How's it going..are you OK?

Early bird like me!

Elsa x