gary68 v Cap One - PPI

[GARY68]

Letter back from court,

 

"Defendant filed an acknowledgement of service,

The Defendant responded to claim and intends to defend all of the claim,

The defendant has 28 days from date of service of the claim form with particulars of claim,or of the particulars of claim,to file a defence."

 

waiting game now:)

[the_shadow]

If tru to form, about 1 week and you'll get a copy of their defence and they'll pay up + some interest either s69 or contractual... and invite you to withdraw the claim.

 

S.

[GARY68]

Still not heard back yet

 

28th on Monday

 

capone acknowledge 1st , if my calculations are correct they have upto 29th Tuesday? to submit their Defence,

 

still waiting then.

[GARY68]

still nothing,heard

no defence,no aq,no offer,

 

is this normal

 

maybe going to court with this one;)

[Mr lex]

Somehow I doubt it Gary,

 

'Drob' has just had his settled.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions-successes/212292-help-n1-claim-form.html

 

Lex

[the_shadow]

still nothing,heard

no defence,no aq,no offer,

 

is this normal

 

maybe going to court with this one;)

 

Have you contacted the court at all to see if its progressed... mine was late by about 3 days and it was a delay with the court and the fact crapone filed for more time.

 

Dont panic... cant see them going all the way to court

 

S.

[GARY68]

Hi Shadow/lex

 

no I havent contacted the courts yet but i will see if anything turns up in the post tommorrow and will ring up the court in the afternoon for progress.

[martinkeatings1]

marker

[GARY68]

Times up,

phone court today to see whats happening,

clerk said capital one are defending and will send out a AQ to me.

 

So here we go, looks like I will be paying out for that and I will need to submit a draft order with it.

[Mr lex]

Yep, and you will add that to your costs. I really can't see this going any further. I expect in about two weeks after you return your AQ, you will see them wanting to settle.

 

Lex

[GARY68]

thanks for that Mr Lex

 

thought they would go this way-surprised they took it uptil the last minute to put a defence in though.

[the_shadow]

Times up,

phone court today to see whats happening,

clerk said capital one are defending and will send out a AQ to me.

 

So here we go, looks like I will be paying out for that and I will need to submit a draft order with it.

 

Expect to receive their defence and then a couple of days after an offer to settle, defence will probably state they have offered to pay xx amount. I'm taking a guess that the offer will be the s69 interest one.. it'll then be a choice whether you want to settle, make a counter offer to them or go for the throat

 

This is if its consistent with usual CapitalOne MO.

 

S.

[Old Cogger]

Subbing

[GARY68]

Well today recieved their defence,

Aq and attached exibit A,B,C,D all application forms,terms and conditions and 1 sided agreement posted up earlier in this thread,

 

buy all accounts after their defence on the charges they have agreed to settle all the charges without admision and of course,

 

this includes my full contracual 26%, so part won.

 

However they have not admitted mis-selling the ppi, this is their basis for not mis-selling, because I ticked the box on the application form.

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp160/gary68/capitaloneagreementedited.jpg

 

Iwill be posting up there defence and could do with some help guys on making my case stand up stronger.

 

how does this work now do I counter every thing in their defence and put in seperate from the allocation AQ or should I include with a draft order and anyone got any links to simmilar cap one defences regarding ppi.

[GARY68]

This is a snippet from my poc,

A) Without sight of the original agreement, the claimant makes no admission whether or not he applied for ppi,

B) If the court decides that such a application was made,he contends that this insurance policy was mis-sold,its separate credit credit agreement was improperly executed and unenforceable due to s.127(3) and also unenforceable due to complete failure of consideration.

C) There was no statement under what circumstances that payment on any claim would be made and what exclusions would apply and in what circumstances.

D) The claimant did not receive a policy certificate or schedule and has requested such documentation under the data protection act,the defendant have failed to provide the certificate despite further request for the documentation.

E) No guidance was given as to whether other, better value insurance policies were available from other sources.

 

13 the claimant asserts that such a agreement would be a s.18 multiple agreement and as such, require separate terms for each part.The applicant informs the court that in a statuary request dated 12/01/2009 made under s.78(1) of the act for a copy of such an agreement,the defendant failed to supply any relevant document.

 

14 The claimant repeats that he makes no admission as to whether he agreed to the ppi,but asserts that in the event he did ,the ppi policy was mis-sold and the premiums and interest were leied thereon unlawfully, and respectfull asks the court to order redress,whereby the applicant is returned to the financial position he would be in today,if such mis-selling had not occurred.

 

15 The defendant charges interest to the applicant,via the account,at its published purchase rate of 26% pa compound.

so starting with A)

A) Without sight of the original agreement, the claimant makes no admission whether or not he applied for ppi,

their defence for A)

(A) Of the particulars of claim is admitted in so far as the defendant charged the claimant monthly payment protection insurance premiums(ppi) at a cost of 79p for eery £100 outstanding.the claimant requested to have ppi when he made his credit card application dated xx/xx/xx. The claimant completed the application and submitted personal details at his own free will. A copy of the application form is attached as exibit”x” (application for attached showing a ticked box) The application form came from a insert in a magazine in jan 04.The claimant was not accepted on the product that he had originally applied for and will therefore have been sent a credit agreement to sign detailing the new product features and enclosing new terms and conditions,which would have to have signed and returned to for the account was opened. The original application was used and retained for purpose of processing his application in order to offer a different product. (this is crap no agreement has been signed for ppi except for a one sided credit agreement for the card-no docs relating to the ppi were ever received)

 

[the_shadow]

Well today recieved their defence,

Aq and attached exibit A,B,C,D all application forms,terms and conditions and 1 sided agreement posted up earlier in this thread,

 

buy all accounts after their defence on the charges they have agreed to settle all the charges without admision and of course,

 

this includes my full contracual 26%, so part won.

 

However they have not admitted mis-selling the ppi, this is their basis for not mis-selling, because I ticked the box on the application form.

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp160/gary68/capitaloneagreementedited.jpg

 

Iwill be posting up there defence and could do with some help guys on making my case stand up stronger.

 

how does this work now do I counter every thing in their defence and put in seperate from the allocation AQ or should I include with a draft order and anyone got any links to simmilar cap one defences regarding ppi.

 

That tick didnt come through on the scanned copy, is it clearer on the alleged form they sent you?

 

Which by the way holds no prescribed terms if you wanted to go down the unenforceable route ;-)

 

S.

[the_shadow]

their defence for A)

(A)Of the particulars of claim is admitted in so far as the defendant charged the claimant monthly payment protection insurance premiums(ppi) at a cost of 79p for eery £100 outstanding.the claimant requested to have ppi when he made his credit card application dated xx/xx/xx. The claimant completed the application and submitted personal details at his own free will. A copy of the application form is attached as exibit”x” (application for attached showing a ticked box) The application form came from a insert in a magazine in jan 04.The claimant was not accepted on the product that he had originally applied for and will therefore have been sent a credit agreement to sign detailing the new product features and enclosing new terms and conditions,which would have to have signed and returned to for the account was opened. The original application was used and retained for purpose of processing his application in order to offer a different product. (this is crap no agreement has been signed for ppi except for a one sided credit agreement for the card-no docs relating to the ppi were ever received)

 

 

Ok, well you would put them to strict proof that such an agreement exists and suggest they disclose said document if they are sure it exists.

 

You have a number of options I believe....

 

a) Just carry on, fill in AQ and see who blinks first.

b) Carry on, fill in AQ and ask for disclosure of this new PPI agreement they say exists

c) File a reply to defence and state you put them to strict proof that such an agreement exists and was signed.

d) Accept what they've paid and discontinue subject to removal of adverse data, no wasted costs order etc.

 

Just my opinion tho.

 

S.

[GARY68]

THANKS Shadow

the tick was clear on the box,just edited out,

the agreement they must be refering to has got to be the one below, which consist of a single page and they are trying to pass page 2 off as the reverse side.

 

SIDE2

 

 

also contained photo copys of leaflets for terms and conditions.

[GARY68]

In MY POC

13 The claimant asserts that such an agreement would be a s.18 muliple agreement and as such,require separate prescribed terms for each part. The applicant informs the court that in a statuary request dated xx/xx/xx made under s.78(1) of the act for a copy of such an agreement, the respondent failed to supply any relevant document.

THERE DEFENCE

13 As can be seen from the section on the application form entitled “insure your payments” the claimant completed the “yes” tick box to the statement “I would like to insure my card repayments anagainst redundancy,business failure,accident,sickness or death,for just 79p per £100 of my monthly outstanding balance,and I have read and understood the enclosed the enclosed payment protection insurance leaflet”.

The claimant will have had access to the details as refered to within the additional imformation section explaining the terms of the cover which would have been in the format of the “summary of cover” document attatched at exibit “c”( photo copy of a leaflet which they say I received) this clearly sets out the summary of cover and includes,eligibility,cover and principal exclusions. Ppi was a separate contract and cover.further,the claimant will have received a copy of terms and conditions upon receipt of the credit card.exibit “D”(5 pages of photo copy t+cs which I claim I have never received) .the claimant then had a 30 day period in which to cancel the policy,without charge,if he felt it was not appropriate for his needs.this notice was given to the claimant prior to him taking out the ppi and is included in the summary of cover document which the claimant had access to prior to agreeing to take out the ppi cover.(which of course I maintain they have never sent me.)

[the_shadow]

THANKS Shadow

the tick was clear on the box,just edited out,

the agreement they must be refering to has got to be the one below, which consist of a single page and they are trying to pass page 2 off as the reverse side.

 

Hmm ok so back this up a little as I'm getting a little confused...

 

According to their defence:

 

The application form [app1] (one page, moisten in the middle part) which has the tickbox allegedly ticked by you was from a magazine. According to their "defence" this "Ppi was a separate contract and cover.further,the claimant will have received a copy of terms and conditions upon receipt of the credit card" T&C after the event was no good in regards s18.

 

Hmm they are really trying to get around the s18 part as they know that t&c should be supplied for both the normal credit card AND the PPI.

 

They further know that the other application doesnt have anywhere on it to put about PPI, so they basically are saying your signature on app1 which has the PPI bit on it doesnt cover your CC but covers just your PPI and that your signature on app2 covers your CC but not the PPI on that account.... poppycock!!!

 

The signature on application 1 refers to the complete product offer of that application. The CCA is not a Woolies pick and mix, you signing that doc was for the whole financial product not parts of it, they may offer you a substitute financial offer as I believe it usually states that but they need to offer a whole new package not refer to bits from one and another.

 

Oh and as to application number 2[app2] (forget the 2nd page as they only scan in the front page of applications )[Admitted in defence to me]

 

S.

[GARY68]

 

According to their defence:

 

The application form [app1] (one page, moisten in the middle part) which has the tickbox allegedly ticked by you was from a magazine. According to their "defence" this "Ppi was a separate contract and cover.further,the claimant will have received a copy of terms and conditions upon receipt of the credit card" T&C after the event was no good in regards s18.

 

Hmm they are really trying to get around the s18 part as they know that t&c should be supplied for both the normal credit card AND the PPI.

 

They further know that the other application doesnt have anywhere on it to put about PPI, so they basically are saying your signature on app1 which has the PPI bit on it doesnt cover your CC but covers just your PPI and that your signature on app2 covers your CC but not the PPI on that account.... poppycock!!!

 

The signature on application 1 refers to the complete product offer of that application. The CCA is not a Woolies pick and mix, you signing that doc was for the whole financial product not parts of it, they may offer you a substitute financial offer as I believe it usually states that but they need to offer a whole new package not refer to bits from one and another.

 

Oh and as to application number 2[app2] (forget the 2nd page as they only scan in the front page of applications )[Admitted in defence to me]

 

S.

 

"EXACTLY" many thanks S for your input and confidence boost.

 

My claim for mis-selling is based on a ticked box (from a magazine)

then as you know the second single page agreement (via post),

secondly, it is based on them not sending me any certificate or details of the insurance when first taken out, this they claim they have sent me out when it was taken out, when I argued that they havent and asked for strict proof of this, there answer..our computers never lie, so I included the paragraph about the fos investigation and there findings which included the fine for mis-selling and about the policys not being sent out,years ago.

After this they offered £300 to settle,before court,now Im in court they are defending.

 

They are in my opinion trying to drag this out,

I havent signed any seperate documents for ppi,so in my opinion they havent got a clear cut case,although mine dosent seem that strong I would like to bump up my defence, but Im not sure on how to approach this,

Should I file a aq and send off a new defence or do I include in a draft with amended paragraphs ,not to sure how this works.

 

I think this needs to go on the legal thread now.

[the_shadow]

"EXACTLY" many thanks S for your input and confidence boost.

 

My claim for mis-selling is based on a ticked box (from a magazine)

then as you know the second single page agreement (via post),

secondly, it is based on them not sending me any certificate or details of the insurance when first taken out, this they claim they have sent me out when it was taken out, when I argued that they havent and asked for strict proof of this, there answer..our computers never lie, so I included the paragraph about the fos investigation and there findings which included the fine for mis-selling and about the policys not being sent out,years ago.

After this they offered £300 to settle,before court,now Im in court they are defending.

 

They are in my opinion trying to drag this out,

I havent signed any seperate documents for ppi,so in my opinion they havent got a clear cut case,although mine dosent seem that strong I would like to bump up my defence, but Im not sure on how to approach this,

Should I file a aq and send off a new defence or do I include in a draft with amended paragraphs ,not to sure how this works.

 

I think this needs to go on the legal thread now.

 

I dont think capitalone will want this in court and think they will make another offer to settle BUT it would require you to continue and file your AQ.

 

Of course you could throw another spanner in the works and on your AQ request more disclosure...

 

One question that jumps out at me is ok if all the documentation is above board, what does capital one get out of this relationship with an outside insurance firm, did they receive a commission on this sale and was this disclosed by capital one prior to the signing of these documents, strict proof required please

 

Click on the red triangle on the left and request it gets moved to the legal forum.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Should I file a aq and send off a new defence or do I include in a draft with amended paragraphs ,not to sure how this works.

 

I think this needs to go on the legal thread now.

 

I believe you would file a reply to the defence and complete your AQ, the reply would then get sent to the defendant along with their AQ.

 

S.

[ngj78]

subbing

[citizenB]

moved to legal issues as requested. I have also amended the title to show you have a PPI issue here as well.