Morgan Stanley/Lewis Group

[roscodog18]

I have an outstanding cc debt to Morgan Stanley, it was sold to The Lewis Group and I have been paying £50 per month to it by standing order for the last 6 months or so (s/o now cancelled!)........

 

I sent a CCA request with a £1 postal order on 06/03/09 and have had no response.......including no request for the missed payment.

 

How should I proceed?

Any advice would be gratefully recieved.

 

Roscodog

[Pinky69]

Wait until they get in touch with you and if there is still no sign of the copy of your agreement by that time you can them put the account in dispute. There is no need to chase them - they have your request and know what they need to do. Did you send the CCA request by Recorded Delivery and have proof it was delivered?

[roscodog18]

Still no response from the Lewis Group............I have cancelled my standing order and 3 payments have now been missed.........clearly the CCA does not exist any more or cannot be located........what should I do now?

If Morgan Stanley do not have a CCA can I go after them?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Roscodog

[Blondmusic]

Just wait until they reply. There is nothing you can do in the meantime.

[harrassed senior]

What do you mean 'go after them' do mean a claim for excess charges etc.?

 

Personally I would follow the advice already given. I am a 'let sleeping dogs lie' kind of person, all for 'the quiet life'.

[roscodog18]

Sorry......I have already claimed back the penalty charges.......actually got a judgement against them because they 'forgot' to submit a defense and their systems did not pick this up.

 

If there is no CCA then surley all payments made to Lewis Group/ Morgan Stanley and the interest charged can be claimed back?

 

Is is worth sending a CCA request direct to Morgan Stanley?

 

Roscodog

[cerberusalert]

If there is no CCA then surley all payments made to Lewis Group/ Morgan Stanley and the interest charged can be claimed back?

 

It's a two-way street I'm afraid, just as a creditor cannot enforce payment in the absence of an enforceable agreement, as quoted below; any monies paid by a creditor is deemed as a gift, likewise a courts view would be the same for a debtor paying the creditor. The thing that must be remembered is that the debt does exist it's just unenforceable.

 

 

Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 633, Sir Andrew Morritt, Vice Chancellor said:

The creditor must…be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid

In the case of Dimond v Lovell [2000] UKHL 27, Lord Hoffmann said:

Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.

 

I wouldn't bother sending another CCA request, the onus is on the Lewis Group to comply with your original request.

[clemma]

If there is no CCA then surley all payments made to Lewis Group/ Morgan Stanley and the interest charged can be claimed back?

 

No - you cannot claim back any payments you have already made as this would be classed as unjust enrichment.

 

Is is worth sending a CCA request direct to Morgan Stanley?

 

Roscodog

 

I really would let sleeping dogs lie with this one. The Lewis Group are in default of your request, and they are obviously aware of this as they have not made any further contact with you. I would wait until you hear from them before taking any further steps.

[clemma]

You beat me to it cerberusalert

[roscodog18]

Thanks for your advice........very much appreciated.

 

If I hear anything back I will let you all know.......

 

Roscodog

[zander]

Morgan Stanley/Goldfish taken over by Barclaycard. "They cannae find a thing captain" in the venacular of Star Trek.

[roscodog18]

Lewis have just sent me a letter asking for full payment..no mention of the CCA which they have not complied with........should I reply inform them that they are in default and that the account should be regarded as in despute?

 

Any advice would be gratefully recieved.

 

Roscodog18

[cerberusalert]

Send them this;

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested, any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Print name do not sign

[roscodog18]

Greatly appreciated..I'll post this today..

 

Roscodog

[roscodog18]

Nearly 8 weeks and I still have had no reply to that letter..........

 

Roscodog

[Pinky69]

I wouldn't worry about it - let them worry about it if they cannot find an agreement.

[manc1976]

I have been waiting for over a year for Lewis Group to provide me with a response to my CCA request. I am just sat waiting until they admit they dont have one.

[littlefatbudha]

Hi all, i have just received letter from the Lewis Group, just doing a quick check up on these idiots , through posts on the forum.

Have just printed out CCA letter and will be posting this morning.

Of all the Threads that i have added for DCAs , i have not received one CCA back, strange that.

Oh well got plenty of Account in Dispute letters to post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[noomill060]

Were you paying for PPI?

[roscodog18]

I wasn't paying for PPI.........

 

Should I let this be or request that in the absence of CCA the alleged debt be written off?

 

Roscodog

[noomill060]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/185292-monkey_uk-hsbc-cca-g-4.html#post2259204

 

Post 80

Edited August 3, 2009 by noomill060