2 defaults Egg and Vodaphone - Default hell!!

[Tinkerbelle]

mmmmm....I hope so! If they are still updating the CRA then they should still have it!

 

I have a similar problem in that I had 2 orange accounts. Both now terminated BY ME and both fully paid up. One has a default recorded on the first account and the second they threatened to put one on - even though it was a cock-up at their end. I checked my file and there is no default on the second account.

 

Unfortunately I don't have the account number for the first account - but I think I may have the telephone number somewhere. I did notice on the CRA file that both accounts had a reference number like xxxx 9999. I will be using that reference number - so would suggest that you do the same.

 

They should be able to trace the account with your address details and half a reference number. They are the ones after all who are supplying the data to CRA's

 

I will be asking Orange to cease sending automatic updates to the CRA, as a way of getting this information removed from my file.

 

Good luck with yours!

[markyparky]

Just received letter from MBNA that default registered on my account will be removed and no longer liable for the disputed amount !!

 

And all down to the help found on this site..

 

Thx to all of you:)

[Tinkerbelle]

Just received letter from MBNA that default registered on my account will be removed and no longer liable for the disputed amount !!

 

And all down to the help found on this site..

 

Thx to all of you:)

 

Well done!!

[Tinkerbelle]

 

I used this against Orange and it worked straight away:

 

“

 

Statutory Notice pursuant to Sections 10 and 12 of

 

The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

 

Re: account nos. [include account/reference no]

 

Account holder: [your title and name]

 

Address: [your address]

 

Whereas I have been customer of Vodafone since [insert date that account was opened] and whereas I consented in my contract with you to the disclosure by you of certain data to third parties, at no time did I consent and neither was it within the contemplation of the parties to the contract that I did consent to the processing by you of that data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Therefore, take notice that I require that you cease from processing within seven days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party. Take notice that you must also remove my subject data from all automated processes with immediate effect, as per my rights under Section 12 (1).

 

This Notice is served on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which has been caused to date. And that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

Signed,

[sign it]

 

[Title and full name]

 

Dated this [e.g. first, second, twenty-first, etc] day of [month], in the year two thousand and six.”

 

Should this not say second, third, fourth and fifth

[powerful_rogue]

 

I am interested to know though, if you were to effectively take yourself out of the automated searches, theoretically you could be penalised by the searching company, as they would assume that you have something to hide - or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Thats also something I am very interested in.

[ANNALH]

I would really like to know this too. I sent the letters off to the credit reference agencies on monday telling them to remove me from automated searches etc as i have 2 defaults (for which i never received a default notice-but thats a seperate issue) both defaults are in dispute but i dont know if i can get them removed so just did this procedure instead. Havent heard anything from them yet.

I am hoping to get a mortgage in a couple of months so really need to know how this will affect me.

[Leo1]

If a bank defaulted you and then sold the debt on to a DCA, could you attempt to have the default removed using SurlyBonds method (as the contract has ended with the bank (debt now owned by DCA))?

[andrew1]

I would really like to know this too. I sent the letters off to the credit reference agencies on monday telling them to remove me from automated searches etc as i have 2 defaults (for which i never received a default notice-but thats a seperate issue) both defaults are in dispute but i dont know if i can get them removed so just did this procedure instead. Havent heard anything from them yet.

I am hoping to get a mortgage in a couple of months so really need to know how this will affect me.

 

 

 

If it's any help, my lad (30 !) just applied as a first time buyer to Nationwide and he had a default from hutchinson 3G for a debt he refused to pay originally for a duff phone service - he's paid it in full now ( Apr 2005) but Nationwide turned him down just last week because of it. His finances otherwise are squeeky clean. He applied to HSBC - rate slightly higher and was accepted when he took a copy of the Statutory Demand we issued to Hutchinson to have it removed with him to the meeting with the bank. I'm not too sure if the default had been removed ( it was literally a few days - perhaps a week apart from the Nationwide application) but we had sent the Stat Notice anyway using SurlyBonds template. HSBC seemed to accept it, but I'm going to try and claim the £1150 difference in the mortgage rate over 3 yrs back from Hutchinson - should be interesting!

[Number6]

I am interested to know though, if you were to effectively take yourself out of the automated searches, theoretically you could be penalised by the searching company, as they would assume that you have something to hide - or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

I too am interested in this. I should be able to come back with some information shortly as I am about to test it. Yesterday I sent letters to the CRA's telling them to remove me from the automated processes. Once I have confirmation from all three that this has been done I'll apply for a bank account, or a phone account or similar and see what happens.

 

Pete

[bongobaz]

I too am interested in this. I should be able to come back with some information shortly as I am about to test it. Yesterday I sent letters to the CRA's telling them to remove me from the automated processes. Once I have confirmation from all three that this has been done I'll apply for a bank account, or a phone account or similar and see what happens.

 

Pete

 

i am one step ahead of you here!

i sent all 3 cra the letters and the deadline for all three was today and i had heard nothing!

so sent another reminder letter giving them a further 7 days or further action will be taken!

once i hear will keep you all up to date as i am going to apply for some form of credit and see what happens!

[Number6]

I'll be very interested in the result bongobaz.

 

On the CRA's - you've heard absolutely nothing at all?

 

Pete

[bongobaz]

I'll be very interested in the result bongobaz.

 

On the CRA's - you've heard absolutely nothing at all?

 

Pete

 

yeah heard nothing!!

sent a letter giving 7 days to reply or will contact information comissioners and demand they enforce it!

[Black Rat]

Excellent thread.........

One question from me though (and perhaps I am overlooking the obvious) where in law does it say that a CRA has any right to hold, process or supply information on any data subject without that persons consent to the holding of or processing of that data?

:?

[Number6]

Excellent thread.........

One question from me though (and perhaps I am overlooking the obvious) where in law does it say that a CRA has any right to hold, process or supply information on any data subject without that persons consent to the holding of or processing of that data?

:?

 

In my understanding they have no legal right but they do have a lawful right to hold the information provided that you have given your permission to the lender to distribute the said information.

 

I think that's right...??

 

Pete

[Number6]

Bongobaz - did you send the letters by recorded delivery?

 

Pete

[Black Rat]

In my understanding they have no legal right but they do have a lawful right to hold the information provided that you have given your permission to the lender to distribute the said information.

 

I think that's right...??

 

Pete

 

Ok so I give the lender permission to submit data to CRA but where do they (the CRA) get the lawful authority to hold and collate that data and reveal it to others who may or more to the point may not have my consent with or without my knowledge?

Sorry if I am being thick!!!!

[pford]

SurlyBonds sumed it up in his post here

all credit for this to Surly

 

I have taken the matter up with the Credit Reference Agencies, and they had claimed that they had a 'quote' “legal right” to maintain this type of adverse entry for up to six years. When I challenged them to quote me the exact Statute that includes this so-called “legal right”, they remained remarkably quiet. Only after my continued insistence of disclosure did they eventually concede that, whilst they have no statutory right, it is 'quote' “standard industry practice” but they added that they are “allowed to by Law”. After further challenges, they finally admitted that unless this was a County Court issue, their term actually referred to contractual Law, but continued to emphasise that it was “standard industry practice to record default entries for six years.”

 

As a highly-educated company secretary for a major PLC, may I respectfully presume that you likewise recognise that “standard industry practice” does not correlate with “legal right”?

 

Further investigation has also led me to conclude that the only six-year data ‘retention rule’, to which they may adhere to, is in relation to information in the public domain, e.g. Bankruptcy Orders/Discharges, IVAs, CCJs, etc. These are kept in the public domain for six years. But, these are sealed orders issued by a judge through the Courts who oversee the ultimate jurisdiction in all matters relating to Law, be it the criminal code or the Common Law. It is not up to Credit Reference Agencies, or lenders, to decide legal issues.

 

[ppauls150]

Pford regarding the issue you just pointed out and likewise what surelybonds must of enquired about i to spoke to the CRA Experian the yesterday and also pointed out to the person on the phone if she could please inform me on what part of the law covers the part about the 6 year rule of defaults staying on your credit file? i said i know that when a judge signs off a CCJ, that it stays on your credit file for 6 years and that is under law but what about the default.? she said oh erm oh erm can you hold the line for a second she came back to me and pointed out that there is nowhere within the facts of law that state it is 6 years but it is where a group of financial bodies got together and decided that in the interests of the industy that the CRAs should keep it on files for 6 years. So i said what your telling me then is that there it is not written down anywhere within Law that states this fact and that if it was challenged in a court of Law you couldnt show it written down that it is 6 years? oh erm well erm NO. LOL Oh ok then thankyou very much for that information i didnt think that there was

[pford]

you have that phone call recorded? Will be another nice piece of evidence if you have

[dayglo]

Here is a brief overview of some of the conversations I’ve had on the telephone today.

(Background: I have four settled defaults listed on my credit file. Vodafone/Natwest/Moorcroft (DCA)/London Scottish (DCA) – this weekend sent stat. Notice under S10 & S12 registered post and fax to them all)

I wanted to just test the arguments a little on the phone. I’ve spoken to Vodafone, Equifax and the Information Commissioner’s office this morning.

Vodafone

 

Me: please stop processing my data because we don’t have a contract between us. It ended when you issued the default and I settled the bill

Them: That was a long time ago (dec 04) We passed your account to an agency you should talk to them.

Me: But vodafone are processing my data, not the agency. I want you to stop processing my data and remove the default as you are causing harm and distress to me and my family

Them: but it’s the law – we have to register a default on your file because you didn’t pay your bill on time and we have a duty to inform other people what sort of customer you are…!!!!!

Me: Could you tell me which law please?

Them: what? You know, the England Law, the main one, The Law of England, THE Law.

Me: Oh that one. (smile) Sorry to bother you, my mistake – I’ll send a letter to you instead ok?

Them: There’s no point really, it’s the LAW.

Me: Ok thank you good bye!!

I then call Equifax

 

Me: could you tell me why you are processing data that is linked to accounts that I have had with other companies for which the contract has ended?

Them: We process data for six years after the account or contract has ended. We have to.

Me: Which law allows you to do that?

Them: I’m just a telephone operator – I’ll go and get a manager.

10 minutes later…

Them: I’m sorry no manager is available to talk to you, but I’ve spoken to my supervisor and she said “we have to keep processing your data for six years after the account has ended”

Me: I disagree. What would happen if I sent you a statutory notice under section 10 and 12 of the Data Protection Act to stop processing my data automatically?

Them: You can’t really do that because, under the law we have to process the data for six years etc…..

Me: which Law?

Them: I don’t know, you would need to speak to a manager

Me: Ok then – I’d like to speak to a manager

Them: I’m sorry there is no-one available at the moment, you must speak to the information commissioners office if you wish to complain, but we ARE allowed to process your data for six years after the contract or account has ended

Me: Ok – I’ll send you a letter instead. Thank you

Then onto the information commissioner’s office

 

Me: can credit reference agencies and companies process my data after the contract that allowed them to do so has ended?

Them: Yes. They can process data for up to six years after the account has been closed or contract ended.

Me: But that doesn’t make sense, once my contract, with for example Vodafone, has ended, surely the clause that allowed them to process my data also ends?

Them: not necessarily, the CRAs don’t need your permission to ‘continue’ to process your data, just your permission for them to start. Having said that, they must manage your data inline with the principles of the data protection act.

Me: So if by processing my data they cause me and my family harm, under section 10, I can ask them to stop?

them: Yes you can, but they will probably argue that 6 years is allowed and that the the Information Commissioner’s office will agree with them.

Me: would you agree with them?

Them: probably, yes. If you wish to complain you should put it in writing to ourselves.

Me: Ok then I will. Thank you.

[MARTIN3030]

A non productive start to your day then ?

[SurlyBonds]

Then maybe the ICO needs to be served with a notice - I'd like to know under what statutory right he/she thinks that they can arbitrarily decide what is a reasonable time limit.

 

The DPA has a whole section on the ICO's responsibilities and it contains nothing about being able to determine a statutory time limit for non-Court executed orders.

 

I might write a letter in to them, and go above their heads, if necessary.

[Neo]

Surly bonds, just came to this post yesterday after been on in it's early days.

 

Thank you for your intuitive posts.

 

Please let me know which "Copy of Law book from Amazon…£19.95" - I would like to buy it. I would also be willing to help/fund/take part in any action/campaign against the CRA's if you decide to take that step. I hope we can organise something soon.

[dayglo]

yep Martin, I've had better mornings!!

I'm typing this whilst on hold with Carphone warehouse.

I noticed on my file that they have marked a 'delinquent' for £156 which was paid the day i found about it.

I'm trying to get it removed with little success.

what actually is a 'delinquent' it doesn't sound very nice and i dont particularly like being associated with the word !

 

also, i understand the argument regarding, if a contract has ended then permission to process data also ends. But, in this case the account has just been 'upgraded' with a 'verbal' contract - "we don't tend to use paper contracts anymore, they are all verbal!!" said o2/carphone warehouse.

 

anyway, they've just asked me to FAX them a copy of my credit file with a covering letter explaining my situation and they will look at amending the file. chances of success? not sure.

[MARTIN3030]

Deliquent account

 

is one that has been;

 

3 months payments behind for two months in a row over the past year ,or,

 

more than 3 payments behind over the past year.

 

 

 

Courtesy of the little book supplied byExperian.