Advice needed - Final Demand

[jimjamer]

I have already had one lot of really good advice from people on this site so here goes again.

 

As already stated in my previous post my husband has two overdrawn accounts with these people, both with pending bank charges claims on. One account they have passed to MCS/DG solicitors which I am dealing with thanks to this site.

 

They have taken other tactics on the other account. Haven't heard a thing since January and they now send a Final Demand giving my husband 7 days to pay £3,700. They have also enclosed a budget planner asking him to make an offer of monthly payment. We already pay £5 per month.

 

We already did a budget planner on the phone with HSBC and they said we were not eligble for hardship case (we weren't even trying to get it) because they don't take into account loans, hp agreements and other credit cards but they ask for all of this on the budget planner. They never offered any other assistance - apart from the bloke actually asking how we do manage.

 

They funniest question on their budget planner - "Does anyone owe you any money?" - I thought I would answer "yes you do!"

 

My question : do we send the budget planner back? or do I write saying we have already done this over the phone?

[lexis200]

I have already had one lot of really good advice from people on this site so here goes again.

 

As already stated in my previous post my husband has two overdrawn accounts with these people, both with pending bank charges claims on. One account they have passed to MCS/DG solicitors which I am dealing with thanks to this site.

 

They have taken other tactics on the other account. Haven't heard a thing since January and they now send a Final Demand giving my husband 7 days to pay £3,700. They have also enclosed a budget planner asking him to make an offer of monthly payment. We already pay £5 per month. Was this agreed by them or are you simply paying it anyway?

 

We already did a budget planner on the phone with HSBC and they said we were not eligble for hardship case (we weren't even trying to get it) because they don't take into account loans, hp agreements and other credit cards This is rubbish - your finanaces are outgoings versus income, regardless of what the outgoings are. but they ask for all of this on the budget planner. They never offered any other assistance - apart from the bloke actually asking how we do manage.

 

They funniest question on their budget planner - "Does anyone owe you any money?" - I thought I would answer "yes you do!"

 

My question : do we send the budget planner back? or do I write saying we have already done this over the phone? Kind of depends on whether the £5 was agreed I would think. If it was, I'd be more inclined to ask why they need to know again, as you are already on a plan and your finances haven't changed. If you are just paying because you couldn't afford more (which we are doing with MBNA - they don't like it:)), then I would probably, just for ease, fill in the form. Remember if you do that though, make sure you put all your outgoings - don't miss off other cards/loans etc just because they 'don't take them into account'. That's complete toot.

 

Also, if they have asked you for proof of income (statments, bills etc), do not send them. They are not entitled to see them, and an Income/Expenditure sheet is classed as a true statement of your affairs. They do not need and can not ask for more. If they quibble this, you just need to say this was confirmed by National Debtline. The banks tend not to like writing that they are entitled to see more when they know you have done a bit of research. At least that's what's happened with us.

 

Lexis:)

[jimjamer]

They never agreed the £5 per month we just pay it as a token gesture really. They wanted more like £100 per month on each account, but this was asked for verbally so nothing in writing.

 

They have also dealt with both accounts entirely differently no consistency whatsoever. One account gone straight to MCS/DG and this one which is the higher one of the two asking for our finances.

 

When they said they didn't take into account loans/hp agreements etc they also said because the HP agreement was on a car we didn't need a car(?)........

 

The planner they have sent us also asks for the value of our house and the value of our mortgage which I am very lothed to give them don't see that its any of their business - they owe my husband money.......

 

They haven't asked for proof of income yet and I wouldn't send it anyway.

 

Are you saying don't send the budget planner?

[johnnymitch]

Hello again jimjamer ... you only need to use one thread when you come back for more advice , makes it easier to appraise the situation and give complete advice...... but not to worry , we're here now......

 

As I see it you have claims stayed in court and they are not in a position to demand anything from you at the moment ..... tell them that you have already given them enough information on the phone and that you are not prepared to divulge anything further 'at this stage'....

 

You could point out that there are claims waiting in court .... and that as such these accounts are 'In Dispute ' and cannot be pursued until the dispute is resolved i.e. the Test Case is completed .... they've used this one often enough -time to hit them back with it ......

 

Or, if you sent them pete's letter from the other thread - just ignore them and let them get on with it ! They know they can't pursue debts that are 'In Dispute' .

[jimjamer]

Hi, I started a new thread as it is for another account (with HSBC) ad being handled entirely differently - sorry.

 

Haven't heard anything back from MCS on the other account yet.

 

I have just read the letter again and they want to know the ins and outs of a ducks bottom.

 

Who the mortgage is with, how much the house is worth etc

Employer details of us both and its not even my debt!

Car details - make reg model

Other bank account details

Who our loans are with etc etc.

 

I assume I don't have to give them any of this information?

 

They also ask us to make an offer of a monthly payment(?) we already pay what we can afford.

[Castlebest]

If you have outstanding stayed claims in the county court for both accounts I would just write back to them thanking them for their letter and pointing out that both accounts are in dispute, quote the county court claim numbers and as Johnny says tell them they you will resolve these matters when the stays are lifted from your claims.

 

Oh and confirm as the accounts are the subject of ongoing court proceedings that their solicitors have stopped due to the test case you will be stopping the payment of any money until the Court matters are resolved.

 

pete

[jimjamer]

Just a quick question?

 

Once you have refused to pay anything until OFT decision is it HSBC's tact then to get their mortgage department (?) to start calling you? My husband has had two calls from them today - he told them to write to him.

[johnnymitch]

Haven't heard of this one Jimjamer ...... but they're capable of trying anything to scare you ....

 

However, I think you can take it that it's nothing to do with your other claims. The Mortgage is not affected by them , as long as you are keeping up the payments.

 

It was a good idea to ask them to write - if they're up to shenanigans they're less likely to do it in writing - I'd wait and see what they have to say, and come back if you're concerned about anything ......

[jimjamer]

Was just wondering as we haven't had a mortgage with them for 6 years. I'll wait and see. thanks

[johnnymitch]

Hee -hee.......no worries there then!

[Castlebest]

Was just wondering as we haven't had a mortgage with them for 6 years. I'll wait and see. thanks

 

What did they say on the phone if you don't have a mortgage with them ?

 

pete

[jimjamer]

Sorry Castlebest didn't realise I had this message from you - wasn't being rude.

 

They just asked if it was convenient to talk - my husband said "no" as he was driving and also gets very frustrated talking to them so they said they would write.

 

We have now received a letter stating basically they are very sorry (lol) but they can do what they want. Again a very inconsistent contradictory letter.

 

On 11.3.09 they wrote giving us 28 days to contact them, within 13 days 24.3.09 they sent a Final Demand because we hadn't contacted them (?). They then say the letter of 24.3.09 gives us 28 days to pay up - it actually gives us 7 days.

 

To quote from their letter:

 

"When we wrote to you regarding the legal challenge against the bank we advised you that it would have no affect or withhold any action on your account. Whilst I appreciate the court case between the OFT and the banks is still ongoing, this will not affect any action we may take."

 

They then go on to say they hope things are now resolved but if not I can write to their Service Quality Team but if not resolved they are obliged to refer the case to the FOS.

 

"However if we do not hear from you within the next 8 weeks we will consider matters resolved." (?)

 

This matter is still only a letter to HSBC asking for my charges back - are we now at the stage of passing it to the Court or do I just keep laughing at their incompetence and assume in 8 weeks it will be dropped

[Castlebest]

They wont drop it but as long as you have disputed your charges your accounts are in dispute. My own opinion is you should continue with your claim to county court stage where it will be stayed, this puts your dispute on rock solid ground, your claim and therefore your disputed accounts are the subject of ongoing court proceedings and they shouldn't be able to touch you.

(note they will still try with meaningless (unlawful) threats and bullying but will have to reverse anything they actually do).

 

The other advantage of this is the addition of the 8% county courts act section 69 interest to your account value.

 

pete

[jimjamer]

Help required again.

 

We now have one of these accounts in court and have heard nothing on the other one since we told the solicitors to get lost.

 

We have a car on Personal Car Plan and have just gone to swoop it for a bigger car (not a problem, value of car pays off finance). When they've applied for the new finance (with same company) on new car it has been declined (and then declined by another company).

 

We have done a credit check ourselves to find that HSBC have put bad debt markers on our credit history and this is the reason for being declined. We have asked Experian to put a note on file as to the situation and going to speak to the finance company in the morning.

 

Our mortgage is due for renewal soon so I guess its going to be affected.

 

My husband is now walking round with a very long face....

 

 

What can we do?

[johnnymitch]

Hi jimjamer

 

First , let's see what they come back with from your dialogue with the Finance Company ..........

 

If they put these markers on your credit history whilst the account was officially 'In Dispute ' then you can report them to the FOS to try to get them to order them removed ........ but it's a long process .

 

Hopefully the Finance Company may do it's own investigation to find your 'misdemeanour' was minor enough to ignore as a credit risk .

 

But come back and ask if you have any further queries ..... hopefully we can put a back on your husband's face .... lol

 

Whatever happens , if you can keep us updated your feedback will help others ........

[jimjamer]

Thanks for the response. My husband has been toing and froing with the Credit reference peops today who have been very helpful and are trying to fast track everything for us.

 

Just been going through the papers again looking for Default Notices, and all we have on only one account is a Final Demand with a para at the end stating they may list the debt with Credit Reference Agencies. Does this count as a Default Notice?

[johnnymitch]

Absolutely not a Default Notice , jimjamer .....

 

if you read this link you will see that a Default Notice has to be a formal notice which must comply with many conditions to be legal .

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/179944-default-notice-period-7-a.html#post1940698

 

All they said to you was that they 'may list the debt ' .... so if you haven't had a formal notice they have no right to Default you .

 

btw ,that's good news about the Credit agency taking notice ..... they should put everything on hold if you can prove the bank did not comply with the format for reporting ....

[jimjamer]

Hi, just a little update, The credit reference agency are contacting HSBC to ask them to take the defaults off, and within the next 7 days will put a marker on our history to say the defaults are disputed.

 

I have also just spoken to my own bank who say they should have given us 28 days notice before sending us a default notice.

 

I am guessing we will have to put something in writing ourselves.

[johnnymitch]

Hey , that's progress jimjamer ..... you've got them on the back foot - pity you can't get that admission in writing .... .

 

I'm not sure if you need to put anything in writing at this stage, let the Credit Agency and the bank sort it out between them . Has you O/H spoken to the Finance Company again ..... they'll obviously have to know that the markers are likely to be removed , so you can go ahead ...

 

Keep us informed of how it goes , please , it'll help others in the same position .

Edited August 18, 2009 by johnnymitch

[jimjamer]

Just an update the credit agency wrote back saying they couldn't remove the markers as the bank say they are in the right - there's a surprise!

 

We have since written to the bank asking them to send copies of their letters and the default notices. Surprisingly they responded within 14 days.

 

Apparently their letter which states they may send our details to CRAs is a Demand Notice (?). They also say that in the Demand Letter they say it will be passed to MCS if we do not repay (they also admit MCS being a subsidiary). I'm sure it had already been passed to MCS.

 

They also say the CCA does not have any jurisdiction over bank accounts.

 

What do we do next?

[lexis200]

jimjamer - have a read of this thread about credit ref agencies. It's very interesting and may be of use to you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/222663-cras-ocs-credit-ref.html

[jimjamer]

Thanks for that, I have browsed it and it confused me a bit - think I will leave that to one side for now as I am more bothered about HSBC and what to do next.

 

Please any advice on my next shot at them appreciated.

[Castlebest]

hiya jimjammer, have a look at my HSBC default removal thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/164871-castlebests-default-removal.html

 

its a bit brief but just shout if you have any questions

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

Just an update the credit agency wrote back saying they couldn't remove the markers as the bank say they are in the right - there's a surprise!

Ah ! so the bank say they're right - and that's end of story for the CRAs - I don't think so jimjamer ............ the CRA are obliged to investigate not just take the bank's word for it ... and at the least the CRA should put a marker (for 'in dispute') on your file .........

We have since written to the bank asking them to send copies of their letters and the default notices. Surprisingly they responded within 14 days.

 

Apparently their letter which states they may send our details to CRAs is a Demand Notice (?). They also say that in the Demand Letter they say it will be passed to MCS if we do not repay (they also admit MCS being a subsidiary). I'm sure it had already been passed to MCS.

 

A Demand Letter is not a Default Notice Letter ....... pete's thread should give you clarity on that one ..... the Default Notice Letter has to be precise and conform to the rules .......... a Demand Letter is just what it says ...... they're asking you for money .... with veiled threats incorporated, just to scare you ... don't be taken in by that .......

 

They also say the CCA does not have any jurisdiction over bank accounts.

Well, they had to get something right LOL but that's a separate issue anyway .....

 

What do we do next?

 

btw jimjamer ......How did your OH get on with the Finance Company .... are they aware that the Credit Rating is 'In Dispute'? I would say your next step is to follow pete's advice ....and make sure the CRA know there is a dispute ....

[jimjamer]

Hi thank you for the response.

 

The CRA are aware of the dispute and did put a marker on the OHs file to say it is in dispute. As for the finance company(s) two were tried, we were advised if we had one more failed attempt it would be 3 months before we could apply again so fortunately I was able to go to the bank of Mum & Dad who took a loan for us. That's funny too, we bank at the same branch who wouldn't give me a loan but allow me to pay the loan my Mum took lol

 

So back to responding to HSBC I have read Castlebest's post and am still a bit confused. I'm guessing I need to write back asking for the Default Notices again throwing some of the legalities in that are used in Castlebest's letter?