Today sent my first letter to HSBC - Despite being a newbie!

[richardsimkiss]

Masters in Industrial product design

 

I know i'm posting a lot, but just wanna be 100% sure i'm doing everything spot on.

 

I promise my next claim thread won't involve quite so many posts

[picklejar]

I wrote to HSBC on 30th Jan and had the same standard reply as you Richard Simkiss, I'm not sure what to do now, becasue the template I used from here said 7 days for a refund of charges or 40 days for them to hand over statements. I can't start any court action until I have the statements to work out how much they owe me.

Is there anything I should do to reply to the letter they've sent or should I wait the 40 days?

Thaks for all the help available on here.

[BankFodder]

I wrote to HSBC on 30th Jan and had the same standard reply as you Richard Simkiss, I'm not sure what to do now, becasue the template I used from here said 7 days for a refund of charges or 40 days for them to hand over statements. I can't start any court action until I have the statements to work out how much they owe me.

Is there anything I should do to reply to the letter they've sent or should I wait the 40 days?

Thaks for all the help available on here.

 

Please will you start a new thread for your case. We cannot follow or support long intertwined threads.

Sorry but I shall be deleting this post from this thread in the next few hours.

[richardsimkiss]

Right, today is the end of the 7 days before action, a claim is to be put through tomorrow So i'm spending all my time today reading as much of the forum as I can.

 

I've previoudly noticed in the FAQs:

Q. I get charged a £5 (£10,£15) fee every month for an overdraft on my current account. Can I get these back too?

A. No, there is nothing illegal about charging for a service provided. If there was, our hosting for this site would be free.

 

I have lots of charges on my account listed as "TOTAL CHARGES" with the only description being (as an example) "TO 18MAR2002" these have been applied to my account at the same time each month, though some months have no charge applied, with seemingly no relation to the account balance at the time (virtually always in an overdraft, often exceeding the agreed limit).

 

These charges started have varied massively being amounts of £14 (x1), £27.50(x6), £18(x4), £36(x2), £54(x3), £36(x1), £18(x1) £10(x1), £30(x1). That is the order in with they have fluctuated/dropped. Now due to the lack of description I'm unsure as to whether these are service charges or penalty charges? Obviously if they are service charges I might ruin my chances of a successful claim by trying to claim charges which they are entitled to charge. (i'm confusing myself now! lol).

 

Is anybody able to clarify the nature of these charges and whether I could claim them back or need to re-calculate the total owed to me?

 

Will start looking for their current Terms and Conditions to see if it says anything, I can't honestly say I read mine when i opened the account.

 

 

EDIT: Just found this:

http://www.ukpersonal.hsbc.co.uk/public/ukpersonal/personal_banking/useful_information/en/any_tariffs_pers.jhtml

Which states all the penalty charges but doesn't say anything about monthly service charges for having an overdraft?

[richardsimkiss]

Right, today is the end of the 7 days before action, a claim is to be put through tomorrow So i'm spending all my time today reading as much of the forum as I can.

 

I've previoudly noticed in the FAQs:

Q. I get charged a £5 (£10,£15) fee every month for an overdraft on my current account. Can I get these back too?

A. No, there is nothing illegal about charging for a service provided. If there was, our hosting for this site would be free.

 

I have lots of charges on my account listed as "TOTAL CHARGES" with the only description being (as an example) "TO 18MAR2002" these have been applied to my account at the same time each month, though some months have no charge applied, with seemingly no relation to the account balance at the time (virtually always in an overdraft, often exceeding the agreed limit).

 

These charges started have varied massively being amounts of £14 (x1), £27.50(x6), £18(x4), £36(x2), £54(x3), £36(x1), £18(x1) £10(x1), £30(x1). That is the order in with they have fluctuated/dropped. Now due to the lack of description I'm unsure as to whether these are service charges or penalty charges? Obviously if they are service charges I might ruin my chances of a successful claim by trying to claim charges which they are entitled to charge. (i'm confusing myself now! lol).

 

Is anybody able to clarify the nature of these charges and whether I could claim them back or need to re-calculate the total owed to me?

 

Will start looking for their current Terms and Conditions to see if it says anything, I can't honestly say I read mine when i opened the account.

 

 

EDIT: Just found this:

http://www.ukpersonal.hsbc.co.uk/public/ukpersonal/personal_banking/useful_information/en/any_tariffs_pers.jhtml

Which states all the penalty charges but doesn't say anything about monthly service charges for having an overdraft?

[BankFodder]

I hope that you will excuse me if I say that this is not the time to be understanding these kinds of things.

FAQs and the forum material have to be read at the outset and you should know exactly what you are claiming before you start threatening action.

 

It is for you to discover what the charges refer to and to build your case.

 

I am going to suggest that you stop.

Abandon your present claim and sit down and get to know what you are doing and what you are claiming. Then restart.

It will be less humiliating than going in half-prepared and losing after having put everyone to a lot of trouble.

 

It is reasonably straightforward but it is not a game.

 

You have to assume that they will go into court with you and that you will have to explain it all and justify it all to a real judge - with real lawyers sitting opposite you

[BankFodder]

I hope that you will excuse me if I say that this is not the time to be understanding these kinds of things.

FAQs and the forum material have to be read at the outset and you should know exactly what you are claiming before you start threatening action.

 

It is for you to discover what the charges refer to and to build your case.

 

I am going to suggest that you stop.

Abandon your present claim and sit down and get to know what you are doing and what you are claiming. Then restart.

It will be less humiliating than going in half-prepared and losing after having put everyone to a lot of trouble.

 

It is reasonably straightforward but it is not a game.

 

You have to assume that they will go into court with you and that you will have to explain it all and justify it all to a real judge - with real lawyers sitting opposite you

[richardsimkiss]

Bankfodder,

 

I appreciate your constructive criticism in that it is true to say i'm not 100% on what i'm doing, i'm merely taking each stage as it comes, seeking advice along the way. Despite my deadline to the banks stating I will submit a claim tomorrow, I don't intend to submit a claim to the courts until I am happy with what I know and be confident in what/how I am claiming.

 

I gladly admit that your knowledge of the law and this sort of procedure is far superior to mine, though I feel I am generally well educated and a quick learner. I have read the majority of the forum and all of the FAQ's though I haven't kept up to date in the past few days.

 

Generally the questions I ask, to the best of my knowledge, have not been answered in any other posts or the FAQ section, in particular my most recent question regarding 'TOTAL CHARGES' I have researched myself and whilst it would appear to me they are not service charges (they are not outlined in the list of charges on the HSBC website), advice/opinions from other forum users is always appreciated as reassurance. Short of phoning the bank and asking "Is this a service charge or one I can sue you for?" or paying for professional advice, asking on here is my only real option for learning.

 

I joined the Bank Action Group in hope of recieving encouragement to claim my money back, in addition to benefitting from the advice of those more knowledgeable. Whilst I appreciate your comments, and will take them on board by holding back until I am sure of what I am doing, I would also greatly appreciate the use of your knowledge in trying to answer my questions if you feel you can.

 

Richard.

[richardsimkiss]

Bankfodder,

 

I appreciate your constructive criticism in that it is true to say i'm not 100% on what i'm doing, i'm merely taking each stage as it comes, seeking advice along the way. Despite my deadline to the banks stating I will submit a claim tomorrow, I don't intend to submit a claim to the courts until I am happy with what I know and be confident in what/how I am claiming.

 

I gladly admit that your knowledge of the law and this sort of procedure is far superior to mine, though I feel I am generally well educated and a quick learner. I have read the majority of the forum and all of the FAQ's though I haven't kept up to date in the past few days.

 

Generally the questions I ask, to the best of my knowledge, have not been answered in any other posts or the FAQ section, in particular my most recent question regarding 'TOTAL CHARGES' I have researched myself and whilst it would appear to me they are not service charges (they are not outlined in the list of charges on the HSBC website), advice/opinions from other forum users is always appreciated as reassurance. Short of phoning the bank and asking "Is this a service charge or one I can sue you for?" or paying for professional advice, asking on here is my only real option for learning.

 

I joined the Bank Action Group in hope of recieving encouragement to claim my money back, in addition to benefitting from the advice of those more knowledgeable. Whilst I appreciate your comments, and will take them on board by holding back until I am sure of what I am doing, I would also greatly appreciate the use of your knowledge in trying to answer my questions if you feel you can.

 

Richard.

[richardsimkiss]

I'm posting this for the benefit of those who may find this information useful in the future.

 

I have contacted HSBC and spoken to a customer services representitive who was actually very useful. I spoke to "Swaglt Patnaik" (he kindly spelt out his name for me), who confirmed the charges stated as "TOTAL CHARGES" are not service charges but charges for exceeding the overdraft limit over a period of time.

 

As i thought, there is no service charge for having an overdraft facility and the only charge for using the facility is interest on the amount by which the account is overdrawn, this is charged seperately to the "TOTAL CHARGES" and therefore I would class them as penalty charges which can be claimed back.

[richardsimkiss]

I'm posting this for the benefit of those who may find this information useful in the future.

 

I have contacted HSBC and spoken to a customer services representitive who was actually very useful. I spoke to "Swaglt Patnaik" (he kindly spelt out his name for me), who confirmed the charges stated as "TOTAL CHARGES" are not service charges but charges for exceeding the overdraft limit over a period of time.

 

As i thought, there is no service charge for having an overdraft facility and the only charge for using the facility is interest on the amount by which the account is overdrawn, this is charged seperately to the "TOTAL CHARGES" and therefore I would class them as penalty charges which can be claimed back.

[richardsimkiss]

Firstly a HUGE thanks to bankfodder in regards to his "Case Guidance Notes" in the FAQ section, it has added to my knowledge and more importantly given me a good idea of what I may expect from the defending bank if the situation goes that far. I'm sure it will be of significant use to many many others using the forum.

 

Now i'm drafting my 'Particulars of Claim' having seen the example on bankchargeshell I have edited it to the following:

 

The claimant has held current account number: ******** with the defendant since before 07/12/200 to present date.

 

Between 09/04/2002 and 10/07/2004, the defendant made various deductions from the account in respect of: ‘excess overdraft fees’ (levied monthly when the account debit balance exceeded the specified overdraft limit), ‘recall S/O-DD’ (levied if standing order or direct debit payment was returned unpaid because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded) and ‘card misuse’ (levied if the card was used to guarantee a cheque when the account debit balance exceeded the specified overdraft limit).

 

If the defendant is able to establish that the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend that they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims from the defendant a sum equivalent to the total amount unlawfully debited to the claimant’s account during the above mentioned period, being £1579.00.

 

The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, being the sum of £316.43. The claimant further claims the court fee of £120.00.

 

As a second opinion, can anyone see any details i may have missed out? or if anything has been worded incorrectly?

 

Annoyingly it currently stands at 1280 characters, 200 more than the limit allowed on the moneyclaim site. Having stared at it for ages, i'm fresh out of ideas to cut out the 200 character excess having already chopped out a further 200 odd. So if anyone has any ideas on that front, that would also be appreciated.

[richardsimkiss]

Firstly a HUGE thanks to bankfodder in regards to his "Case Guidance Notes" in the FAQ section, it has added to my knowledge and more importantly given me a good idea of what I may expect from the defending bank if the situation goes that far. I'm sure it will be of significant use to many many others using the forum.

 

Now i'm drafting my 'Particulars of Claim' having seen the example on bankchargeshell I have edited it to the following:

 

The claimant has held current account number: ******** with the defendant since before 07/12/200 to present date.

 

Between 09/04/2002 and 10/07/2004, the defendant made various deductions from the account in respect of: ‘excess overdraft fees’ (levied monthly when the account debit balance exceeded the specified overdraft limit), ‘recall S/O-DD’ (levied if standing order or direct debit payment was returned unpaid because the specified overdraft limit had been exceeded) and ‘card misuse’ (levied if the card was used to guarantee a cheque when the account debit balance exceeded the specified overdraft limit).

 

If the defendant is able to establish that the contract between the claimant and the defendant did contain terms purporting to entitle the defendant to levy these charges, the claimant will contend that they are unenforceable at common law, being penalty clauses rather than liquidated damages clauses.

 

The claimant claims from the defendant a sum equivalent to the total amount unlawfully debited to the claimant’s account during the above mentioned period, being £1579.00.

 

The claimant further claims interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, being the sum of £316.43. The claimant further claims the court fee of £120.00.

 

As a second opinion, can anyone see any details i may have missed out? or if anything has been worded incorrectly?

 

Annoyingly it currently stands at 1280 characters, 200 more than the limit allowed on the moneyclaim site. Having stared at it for ages, i'm fresh out of ideas to cut out the 200 character excess having already chopped out a further 200 odd. So if anyone has any ideas on that front, that would also be appreciated.

[BankFodder]

Have you looked at the Guide notes for completing Moneyclaim form in the library? It might help. Yours exceeds the word limit but is rather too wordy anyway

[BankFodder]

Have you looked at the Guide notes for completing Moneyclaim form in the library? It might help. Yours exceeds the word limit but is rather too wordy anyway

[richardsimkiss]

thanks bankfodder, hadn't spotted that, i'm going through it now being a bit more direct with what i'm saying.

[richardsimkiss]

thanks bankfodder, hadn't spotted that, i'm going through it now being a bit more direct with what i'm saying.

[richardsimkiss]

Right, after a bit of time off and time spent studying what's what, I feel I would be able to correctly express and elaborate on (if needed) my points should the matter make it to the court room.

 

I've completed my Particulars of claim and I'm happy with it's contents. My last question before submitting the claim is regarding the "Amount Claimed" bit, in the Particulars of claim I have stated the sum of the charges that I wish to claim, and that I wish to claim 8% APR interest which I have stated currently stands at £318.87 (as of 03/03/06)

 

Underneath the particulars of claim section I need to enter the "amount claimed", am I correct to enter this as the sum of the charges AND the interest (£318.87)? Or is the interest calculated and added at the date of the hearing?

 

Thought asking you guys on here would be easier than calling the helpdesk as you're familiar with my situation... Thanks!

 

EDIT: For future reference, the "Amount Claimed" is the sum of charges AND any interest calculated/outlined in the Particulars of Claim

[richardsimkiss]

Just waiting for the clock to tick past midnight to allow an extra bit of interest on my 'Particulars of Claim'

 

How exciting! :twisted:

 

EDIT:

And the deed is now done!! :twisted:

Dave you have PM 8)

[BankFodder]

Sorry that no one cam back to you about your interest calculation.

 

You put doewn total of the charges you are claiming plus 8% at the date of the issue date of the claim plus interest at a daily rate of say, .90pence per day .

 

Assuing you win or they settle, you would have to calculated the no. of days untl the moment they pay you, multiplied by the daily rate and add that to the total of charges and interest which are contined in your claim.

 

have we got your litigation details for our litigation section?

[richardsimkiss]

No problem bankfodder, i should really have just not been so lazy and contacted the helpdesk in the first place

 

I've PM'd Dave with the details for the litigation section.

 

I think i should be able to caculate the extra interest (from date of claim submission to date of payment) relatively easy by using the excel spreadsheet. If I change all the "Date Incurred" dates to 04/03/2006 (date of submission) then it *should* calculate interest up to the time of payment I think that's right anyway :? lol

[richardsimkiss]

On the same day of receiving confirmation through post that my claim has been issued, I've recieved another letter from HSBC:

2 March 2006

 

Dear Mr Simkiss

 

I refer to my lettre dated 15 February 2006 and apologise for not yet having fully completed my investigations.

 

I will contact you again by 16 March 2006 and expect to be able to provide you with a full response at this time. In the meantime, thank you for your continued patience.

 

Yours sincerely,

Alan Pretty

Senior Service Qulaity Officer

I'm expecting his response on the 16th to be that the charges were applied correctly according to the T&C's and that they're inline with those of other banks... why it's taking him a month to type that i don't know!

 

Maybe he'll have noticed the claim that's i've issued and the letter will contain a lovely cheque for just over £2k... don't think i'll hold my breath though

[richardsimkiss]

Well the clock is ticking...

 

It's been 34 days so far since they recieved my initial request for the refund of charges and DPA request... wonder i'f they've forgotten about my DPA request

 

Thursday is the 16th March, the deadline which they have set themselves to give me a full response regarding my initial letter (which contained the DPA request) Will be interesting to hear what they say having been investigating for 34 days!

 

And lastly, they have until 25th March to respond to my claim, My claim was issued on the 6th March, I was informed it would be deemed as served on 11th March (though atm, MCOL still has my claim status as 'issued' and not 'served', though not somethg i'm too worried about, lol)

 

I wish i could just hurry it up a little though... i feel like i'm just sat here twiddling my thumbs! :?

[richardc]

Patience!Patience! It will happen soon enough.

[BankFodder]

They don't have a "claim served" status.