Change of keeper V5 etc.

[Big Bill]

While looking up the Vehicle Excise Duty regulations I came across the minutes of a meeting of a committe that is introducing new measures to combat "Vehicle Crime". This will be used to deny the claim that the offence happened after I sold it.

When you quite correctly send off the V5C to the DVLA telling them the name and address of the new keeper. you as the previous keeper are responsible for all Parking Charges, Fines and penalties until the new Keeper completes the rest of V5 and submits it to the DVLA even if the intermediate keeper is a trader because they are exempt from changing the vehicles keepership to themselves.

I supose that means that if 10 red light cameras and 20 Gatso's are triggered you get banned for life and if the car is dumped on private property you incurr enormous clamping charges.

So look forward to being sent penalty notices by the dozen and having DCA's call for parking charges that you will be required to pay by statute. It effectively means that you cannot sell a car privately that is SORN'd because the moment it leaves your driveway the debts start acruing.

[flyingdoc]

can you publish the source of this?

[Guest wino]

Surely the DVLA should be looking at easier, quicker and more securer ways of us notifiying them of change of keeper etc rather than trusting the postal system (where forms enter the twighlight zone).

 

My Dad many years ago sold his Bedford Minibus. He posted off the slip but many months later the Police came to arrest him as the minibus had been involved in an armed robbery! The DVLA said they never recieved the notification of change of ownership. There where also loads of outstanding parking tickets.

 

So if the comittee you mention in your post have their way my Dad would owe thousands in fines and possibly be still serving time in prison for armed robbery!

[crem]

While looking up the Vehicle Excise Duty regulations I came across the minutes of a meeting of a committe that is introducing new measures to combat "Vehicle Crime". This will be used to deny the claim that the offence happened after I sold it.

When you quite correctly send off the V5C to the DVLA telling them the name and address of the new keeper. you as the previous keeper are responsible for all Parking Charges, Fines and penalties until the new Keeper completes the rest of V5 and submits it to the DVLA even if the intermediate keeper is a trader because they are exempt from changing the vehicles keepership to themselves.

 

The new keeper NEVER submits the rest of teh V5 to the DVLA, so they will be waiting a long time for that to happen!!

[patdavies]

You cease to be the registered keeper from the date that you both sign and the 'old' RK sends off the V5C. If you pass the vehicle to a dealer, then the 'old' RK completes the yellow section, both sign and this is sent by the 'old' RK to DVLA.

[Big Bill]

Have not been online for some time sorry for the delay. The confusion is mine I have never really looked at the new V5, the last car that I sold, you tore off the little Green bit filled in the new keeper's details and sent that to the DVLA. The new owner then kept the major bit of the V5. I see now that you send the new V5 more or less in total to the DVLA.

However, it is then obvious that the Registered Keeper is responsible for all fines parking charges and penalties until the DVLA Change the details of the registered keeper from the V5.

The private individual has no "Period of Grace" whereas the trader has a "three month period of grace" which has since been vaived according to the ammendment that I read and this applies to SORN as well. So the cutting down on vehcle crime reason for continuous registration does not apply to the cars on traders forecourts.

 

I am still battling with the DVLA its benn ongoing for 7 months now and I have just taken it up to the SoS for appeal will let you know all about it when I win.

[Big Bill]

Something else appeared whilst trawling:-

Her Majesties Court Service accept that two days after posting by first class post is "evidence of serving". try that on the SORN lost letters

[patdavies]

Something else appeared whilst trawling:-

Her Majesties Court Service accept that two days after posting by first class post is "evidence of serving". try that on the SORN lost letters

 

Not quite. Not "evidence of", but "presumption of"; you will still need to provide evidence of posting.

 

HMCS abide by the Interpretation Act 1978 s.7

 

7 References to service by post

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

"delivered in the ordinary course of post" is deemed elsewhere as 2 business days for first class post and 5 business days for second class.

[soup]

Lets mention the vehicle you are driving, registered with the “Department for Transport” also trading as the “DVLA” (see DNB web site)

So, registered with, means you have handed over legal title of the vehicle to the DVLA (voluntarily) and in return they kindly grant you the “Keepers V5”, note: not the owners V5, but the keepers!

So the DVLA, extremely kind as it is, grants you the privilege of using THEIR recently acquired property, nice of them eh?

[gwc1000]

soup, I fear John Harris' lectures have influenced you too much. At no point do DVLA claim that they own your car. In fact DVLA point out on their website that the RK and legal owner are the same person in most cases. If DVLA truly owned my car, they could come and take it at any point from me without using the untaxed excuse. Also, how come you are able to export a car to another country? Surely in that case you would be depriving DVLA of their property permanently? i.e. theft.

The Dunn and Bradstreet issue is a red herring. Harris makes great play on this, claiming because your MP, local Council, local police etc is listed, that they are in fact a Corporation. But, D&B is just a credit reference company. It isn't Companies House. Your local council is a trading entity, but not a profit making Corporation with shareholders. The same with your police, they all have to purchase supplies.

Perhaps you should continue with your Freeman on the Land arguments back on the David Icke site, because I fear you will get little support here.

[patdavies]

However, it is then obvious that the Registered Keeper is responsible for all fines parking charges and penalties until the DVLA Change the details of the registered keeper from the V5.

 

 

Overstating the case a little there I feel.

 

For decriminalised parking (PCNs), you respond to the NtO with proof to the effect that you disposed of the vehicle on x date prior to the contravention and thus at the time of the contravention, although DVLA may still have shown you to be the RK, you were not the owner

 

For other legal notices, you supply the name & address of the new keeper in response to RTA s.172 or RTOA s.112.

 

For SORN, if it becomes an issue (ie LLP) that you simply swear an affidavit/statutory declaration at your local Court that you disposed of the vehicle on X date and infiormed DVLA of that fact.

[Big Bill]

Sorry I cannot find the original page. I cannot find the list of names and email addresses at the DfT that I found and used the same day but fortunately I copied them down.

I am still pursuing the DVLA over another matter involving my MUstang and will let you know the result when it is all over.

The practice in the states is that your Certificate of Origin (or Open Title which certifies your ownership of the vehicle) is handed in on first registration and replaced by a Certificate of Title. In doing so the State retains an interest in the vehicle, much to the annoyance of everyone. The Certificate of Title shows the "Owner" on the rear and any outstanding loans on the front. Why couldn't we have that here?

The Registration Document here only shows the keeper. Ostensibly this is done so that the person actually looking after the vehicle is the one named on the Log Book but really it must be so that the rental, fleet hire, lease hire and other companies can disguise their ownership of the car. My Bora was ex lease hire and I wonder how many other venicle had the same lady keeper as it had. I have never heard of a car coming into auction with AVIS as the keeper.

[gwc1000]

 

I have never heard of a car coming into auction with AVIS as the keeper.

 

They can do. It does happen.

[Big Bill]

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

This bit to my mind says that unless the person being served can prove to the contrary sticking it in the post is sufficient. If it works one way why not the other?