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Amex Credit Card - timescales??


macmiddle
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Hi everyone

 

Firstly may i say what a fantastic forum this is,it has helped reduce my stress no end since i found it

 

I was made redundant 4 months ago and have not been able to pay amex the minimum payment in dec/jan/feb. It is a 10 year old credit card with a bal of 10k

 

I have rang several times to explain this to them however, they would not accept anythin less than the minimum payment each month.

 

Last week i got my statement which is demanding the full amount - 10k and says it is with collections

 

Im gonna send off a cca tomorrow, however, what are the approx time scales till this gets to the point of going to court, weeks, months etc

 

Ill update this thread with my reply to the cca when i get it

 

cheers everyone:)

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firstly, stay off the phone!

 

never talk to any OC or DCA by that method, always insist it is in writing.

 

can't see the point of a CCA really, surely you are not denying you own the debt?

 

anyhow, you can make it so that they will never take it to court.

 

Write to them & TELL them, you will only be paying £XX for XX months, then DO IT, without forgetting to pay each month & regardless to whatever they may say in any letters to you. [use online banking - great tool!].

 

that way, they will never send it to court, 'cause if they do, the judge will laugh it out the door, you have clearly stated your position & the judge would no doubt order a lesser sum.

 

dx

  • Haha 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello Macmiddle!

 

Firstly, as DX100 says, do not waste time speaking to them on the Telephone. Cease all contact with them other than in writing, as Amex are not to be trusted on the Telephone, all they will want is a Payment of some sort.

 

Amex are flat out trying to close Accounts down across the Globe, even good ones with no other problems, as any search on the Web will confirm.

 

So, they won't waste any time on an Account that is giving them problems. Amex have financial problems enough of their own at the moment, and recently had to change their status over in the USA to obtain bailout funding.

 

You say they have demanded the full Payment, and that you were in Arrears by then? It would be good to know a little more background about the events that got you here in terms of what Amex have done thus far.

 

Envelopes

 

Keep all of them, i.e. the Envelopes that Amex use to send you things. They are important as they can show vital details such as Postal Marks that may prove when Amex sent anything to you. The Date of Posting determines the Date of Service, which can be vital in some cases.

 

The usual pattern is they will bother you on the Telephone to demand Payments, plus they will also send you various Letters to chase up the Payment(s).

 

If you were already in Arrears and in default of the Terms they will say apply, then before asking you for the Full Balance, they should also have sent you a Default Notice under s87(1) of The Consumer Protection Act 1974. To read all about the Act, follow this link where you can click on any section to see what it says:

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Check all of your Paperwork, and try to find that Default Notice, as it could well be very important. Likewise, gather up every scrap of information Amex have ever sent you, and get it all into A4 Lever Arch Folders ASAP. See if you kept a copy of the original Application Form, and any documents sent either with it, or that were sent since.

 

s78(1) Request

 

Next step is indeed to send them a s78(1) Request to receive a true copy of your properly executed Regulated Credit Card Agreement. What they send back in response to that is important too. That will cost you £1, use a Postal Order, keep a copy of that, as well as the receipt when buying it.

 

Do not sign the Letter...just state your name in type. Send the Letter via Special Delivery, as it must be tracked with signed delivery. Send the Letter to The Company Secretary at the Registered Office for the Company concerned...to find that, check the Company Number on their Letterheads, and find the Registered Office via the Companies House Web Site here:

 

Companies House

 

I note you said they demanded full payment. Have Amex sent you a Letter telling you the Account has been Terminated? If so, hang on to that as well. Did any of your Card Statements state that the Account had been Cancelled? If so, hang on to that too.

 

Subject Access Request

 

This is important, and I would plan on sending them more than one, because you can sometimes get to see what they are up to behind the scenes as things move along towards Court. You can't send them one a week, but can send them one every Month I think. Not certain of the timescale, but there is a period during which you must not send them another one if one has recently been sent. So, do check that, but there is nothing to say you cannot send them more than one provided you do so at the correct intervals. They are well worth £10!

 

Again, send this S.A.R. Request to the same Company Registered Office as above, again send to The Company Secretary, and send them £10 for the SAR. That too must also go via Special Delivery, and keep a copy of the Postal Order and receipt.

 

Ask them for everything they have on you, there are many S.A.R. Template Letters around CAG, so any of them will do. If in doubt, say you want the lot, tell them to leave no stone unturned.

 

When that comes back, compare the copy of the Agreement that will be included in that with the s78(1) Copy, and also make sure they include copies of things like the Default Notice and Termination Letter etc.

 

This should also give you all of your Statements, so that you can start to work out what, if anything, you really do owe. If you have kept your own Statements, see if they all match the ones Amex send in the S.A.R.

 

If you have had the nasty Amex Credit Card for over 10 Years, then if you are like many, you may find that you have re-paid more than you ever spent, so the issue boils down to if the Amex Charges and Interest are valid. To be valid, they need an Agreement. To Terminate whilst you are in a default situation, and then demand full Payment of a future sum not otherwise due, then they also need a valid Default Notice that you must fail to remedy if they are to take the next step, i.e. Court action or demanding any future sum. If that is defective, and they then Terminated, they could have a problem, as they cannot now go back and issue a fresh valid Default Notice on a closed Account.

 

Clearly, if you were in Arrears, Amex said you were in Arrears, and if they issued a s87(1) Default Notice, Terminate and say they will register a Default with the Credit Reference Agencies, then this is clearly a default situation and they must follow s87 and s88 of the Act. To do that, they need a valid Default Notice. You may now see why the Notice could prove pivital to their case against you.

 

Don't tell Amex any of this for now, just gather the evidence via s78(1), S.A.R. and by searching your home for past paperwork.

 

Charges and PPI

 

Next task is to check all of your Statements, and add up any Penalty Charges and PPI. If there was PPI, was it mis-sold to you perhaps? The charges can be reclaimed but, for now, hold fire doing so. That's because Amex will never give you those back in real Cash anyway, all they will do is reduce the alleged Balance. So, as you can't get the Cash from them, I'd say hold them back ready to Counter-Claim against Amex when they start Court action against you...which they will, after first giving you a hard time via their usual crowd of low-life Debt Collectors.

 

Any charges will also have an affect upon the accuracy of any default sum they have stated in the s87(1) Default Notice, i.e. if they say you owe them £250, and yet at the time they owe you £500 in unlawful charges, then the default sum is inaccurate. This alone could render a Default Notice defective.

 

Court Action

 

Amex will usually get to this stage, but it is hard to say how long they will take. One issue you must be ready for, is them sending the Court Claim to the wrong address. That is a very favourite trick of theirs, as you may see from reading any of the Amex Threads. They will either use an old Address, or will somehow mess up your current Address to try and mis-Serve the Claim Form. The reason for that is to try and get a Judment in Default, i.e. if you fail to respond to the Claim within 14 Days from the Date of Service, then the Court will hand them victory on a plate.

 

Summary

 

At the moment, you are in the same position as many, and reasonably early in the events. So, start gathering the details you will need to defend yourself against them as they work through their various Threats and Harassment issues.

 

Be aware that Amex want to close Accounts, so non-Payment is just music to their ears, because it saves them having to work out if you are one of the Accounts they want to get rid of. Now that you have popped up on their scope, your Account is toast, so there will be no going back. Being nice to them is pointless, as they will not be nice to you. They just want money, plus anything else they can add-on while getting at money.

 

When writing to Amex, just keep the Letters short and clinical, and do not start telling them anything. Let them make all the moves. But do keep it polite, and keep Copies of everything from now on. Get a cheap Scanner if you do not already have one, as it can be useful to Scan all key documents to, say, PDF Format, and give them a Date so that they all line up in the right order, for example:

 

2000-01 01-01-2000 Application Form - Copy of my Copy

2009-02 01-02-2009 Default Notice - Copy of my Original

2009-03 15-03-2009 Termination Letter - Copy of my Original

 

OK, that should get you started, but do get organised, and get organised ASAP, don't leave it until later, or else Amex will be all over you like the nasty banking rash they are.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

  • Haha 2
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Hi Banker

 

I ve started today to compile all the info i have on them and sent of a request for my original agreement

 

I ll scan most of my correspondance to this site asap

 

Many Many thanks for your comprehensive ( and very professional ) reply, it is really appreciated

:):):)

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Ok here is a timeline of events, for info

10 year card, faultless payment history for 10 years

 

UNTIL - ( due to redundancy )

 

1st Jan - Missed Payment

1st Feb - Missed Payment, rang to arrange ower payments - refused

7 March - recieved a letter explaining if i didnt pay within 7 days my account will be cancelled

15 March - Recieved a statement quoting, account with collections please pay the full amount by the 1st april

Today - recieved a letter from westminster solicitors ( acting for rma apparently, even tho ive never had a letter from rma! it was post marked the 24th ). The letter was actually dated the 17th!!!!, saying i have 7 days to pay the full balance ( now over 12k ) or they commence court proceedings. well that leaves me no days to respond to this threat as they backdated it a week.:x

 

They have also included a £2200 charge as well as the balance is now over 12k instead of 10k.

 

Today I wrote to them ( amex and rma ) requesting a copy of my original agreement - cca, a explanation for the unethical charges applied to the account and offered once again lower payments. I also asked for an explanation why they were backdating letters.

 

Anyone had experience with westminster, they seem like a bunch of muppets to me!!!! Backdating letters - not really ethical for a firm of solicitors so dont know what they will try next

 

If it actually went to court, i would have thought they would get a lot less than the £50 per month i offered originally so i cant really see what their motive is. I have a joint mortgauge with my partner, house value 115 - 120K, mort is 119k, so a charging order cant be the motive.

 

PS apologies in advanced for spelling mistakes, i had a few glasses of wine while i was watchin the apprentice lol:p:p

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std crap

basically ignore it.

 

do as in post #2

 

be happy, you control your finances not them!

 

they can basically do nothing to you

 

lastly, dont worry about any of the threats.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi

 

OK so im still waiting on my cca however today i recieved a statutory demand from westminster solicitors and im pretty worried now

 

How do i deal with this??

 

Should i write to the solicitors and tel them that i have not recieved my cca as it will be 16 days when the posts starts again ( tues)

 

Also do i have to write to the court as well with my reasons to set aside???

 

Reasons being - I havent recieved my cca within the required timescales

I havent had a explanation of the charges applied to the account ( 2200 pounds a few weeks ago )

 

Should i put i am still willing to pay reduced payments ??

 

 

Thanks everyone and have a good easter weekend:)

Edited by macmiddle
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Hello Macmiddle!

 

A Statutory Demand (SD) is a particularly nasty little Threat that Amex is fond of using via their various Lawyers.

 

I regret you must act on this, but don't worry unduly. 1st Credit (DCA) have recently been hauled over the coals by the OFT for using SDs as a form of Consumer Credit Debt Collection Threat.

 

This is frowned upon so, as well everything else, complain to the OFT about both Amex and Westminster Solicitors, as both should know a lot better.

 

Next step is to get reading on CAG, as there are several excellent Threads on how to have an SD set aside...plus how to go for maximum costs when doing so...yes, you can get money out of them for doing this, so get reading!

 

Some SDs are not even genuine, in that they have not been stamped by a Court. However, I doubt a Lawyer would do that, but you never know, as they will do anything for money. The 2nd oldest profession.

 

There are very tight timescales to get the SD set aside, but how you go about that will take a little reading. I'm no expert on SDs, but know the information you need is right here on CAG, try this for a start:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/162131-statutory-demands-service-post.html#post1738221

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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thanks for the reply banker

 

gonna go and grab somethin to eat then spend the evening researching. I cant believe how low Amex will go!! They havent even replied to my cca

 

cheers for the link mate:)

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Ok ive done some reading

 

Im going to apply to have the SD set aside because

 

1. No response to CCA, therefore the account is in dispute

2. No explanation of the £2000 charges applied to the account given - i requested this along with the cca

 

I also have a reply from RMA in response to a harassment desist letter i sent them. It states " We have noted your request for a CCA and have placed your account on hold until this has been completed" This was sent to me on the 1st of this month and i have still not recieved my cca

 

Is all this enough???? And do i need to notify westminster of anything or should i just file 6.4 and 6.5 to the courts

 

I also noticed the SD letter was sent from RMAs postcode ( on the post stamp) not WESTMINSTERS!!

 

I presume this means there the same company or there a a bit thick over at RMA lol

 

Anyway thanks for the help so far, however i sense im gonna need some more before this nightmare is over

 

Special thanks to bankers rhymes with *****. Youve been really helpful mate and obviously know your stuff - A big thankyou!

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sorry one more Q

 

If i write to Westminster saying that the account is in dispute and i enclose the letter from rma confirming this i suspect they will set it aside.

 

I know i am prob getting ahead of myself a bit, but, if this happens do i still need to file a defense to the court to have it set aside

 

The reason i ask is i read on a few threads that the creditor does not have to send these thru courts to issue them and seem to fire them out as a attempt to get you to pay some money. Therefore how will the court know about the SD.

 

cheers everyone and happy easter weekend

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Hi

 

Yes, i had this set aside. Reason - no valid cca. The court set a date and sent westminister a copy of my set aside notice.

 

Westminister then sent a letter to the court agreeing the set aside and the file was sealed by the court. I didnt have to go.

 

They seem to have passed it to another DCA now, i wrote to them last week explaining i will not be paying anything until they provide a legally binding agreement. - They still havent!!!!!

 

Thanks for the help everyone

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Time will tell,

 

if anyone needs any help or wording for set asides due to no cca then drop me a pm, its a relatively simple process and to be honest ive learned a lot from the experience ( im no expert but ive been thru the process )

 

Stat Demands are pretty scary things when you first get them, but its important to understand that they can be dealt with quiet easily.

 

Interestingly, once i filled my set aside it took the court 3 weeks to reply with a court date, then the court date was then a further 6 weeks from the date of the letter. -- I get the impression that set aside hearings are "bottom of the list on priorities" for courts due to the amount of time wasted with them!!

 

One thing i didnt do is apply for any costs, maybe next time lol

 

Cheers everyone

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Time will tell,

 

if anyone needs any help or wording for set asides due to no cca then drop me a pm, its a relatively simple process and to be honest ive learned a lot from the experience ( im no expert but ive been thru the process )

 

Stat Demands are pretty scary things when you first get them, but its important to understand that they can be dealt with quiet easily.

 

Interestingly, once i filled my set aside it took the court 3 weeks to reply with a court date, then the court date was then a further 6 weeks from the date of the letter. -- I get the impression that set aside hearings are "bottom of the list on priorities" for courts due to the amount of time wasted with them!!

 

One thing i didnt do is apply for any costs, maybe next time lol

 

Cheers everyone

 

Yep this is the only way the DCA/OC gets Punished... if they have to cover your costs which can be approx £250-£300 justifiably then it'll make them think twice before hitting you with one again.

 

S.

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Hi

Just found this thread.

 

Am really pleased you got it set aside macmiddle :D

 

We are in a very similar situation, however i've just checked & noticed the SD we've just been served with, hasn't been stamped by the Courts. Scare tactic??

 

Can anyone advise please?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/formal-solutions-bankruptcy-administration/208515-advice-please-threatened-creditor.html

 

Thanks & sorry for hijacking your thread

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  • 1 year later...

Just thought id update this thread

 

This debt was written off by amex 6 months ago, They Sent me confirmation in writing after i refused to go away lol, took 5 letters demanding it be removed from my credit report after the STAT DEMAND Fiasco before they did tho!!!!!!. Never heard anything since, and its now gone from my credit report.

 

However, its worth noting, AMEX were, BY FAR, the most aggressive company i dealt with throughout sorting my finances out. Completely unreasonable and seem happy issuing STAT demands without even checking if they have a CCA first. Also seem completely inflexible on reduced payments where my other cards were happy to discuss things.

 

Also Westminister Solicitors are the most unprofessional company i have ever dealt with, scrap that, Incompetent company. PO box London, Actual address see below

 

Westminster and RMA are the same company if anyones wondering, RMA 2nd FLoor, Westminster Solicitors 3 rd Floor. Both Preston, just different departments. RMA would like you to think that they have passed your debt on to a hot shot legal firm in london when you get the west letters. In fact, they just passed it up to the 1 tired/knackered solicitor that they employ on the floor above, who, in actual fact is probably dealing with hundreds of these letters every day, and has not intention of following up any threats he/she makes, cos they have no time!!!!

 

Hope this helps, anyone needs any help with set asides etc then pm me and ill try my best

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Hi Site Team,

 

Is this a winner? Some useful info in here especially from banker...

 

Regards,

 

Bosun.

Please note: I have no formal qualifications in this area and any advice offered is given in good faith. :)

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