Statutory demand

[agent53]

I owe Am Ex credit card £6500. On my November statement it says in small print 'Account cancelled and with collection dept.' At same time I got calls to my mobile from RMA whilst working away. A letter was waiting when I returned.

 

Turns out they are asking for £7841. I rang Am Ex who say they can have nothing more to do with my account and I can't pay them directly from my bank account. RMA left very rude ignorant voicemails which I ignored.

 

I have recieved a Statutory Demand from Westminsters LLP who I believe are asociated with RMA. I know I should reply to this but are they entitled to the extra £1300 file fee, and if my Am Ex card is cancelled ( it's destroyed and hadn't been used since June 08) is interest still allowed to be added? The amount owing on Am Ex direct banking site is £6800 + although I can't make payments on it.

 

Also since the SD I have received a letter from another debt collector named Newman. Who say they act on behalf of Am Ex as previous attempts by another debt collection agency have been unsuccessful it has been passed to them.

 

The sum they want is £6932 which is less than RMA wanted, There is no file fee added. I have always made regular payments to Am Ex but have under paid I admit. Am slowly paying off my other debts but this doesn't help. Who do I deal with? I would be happy to make an arrangement with Newman as they don't seem to have added a file fee, but I have the SD from Westminsters LLP via RMA I think.

 

Any prompt advice gratefully accepted. All I want to do is pay off Am Ex at a rate I can afford.

Edited March 22, 2009 by citizenB
edited to make it easier to read

[harrassed senior]

Bumping this thread for urgent expert advice

[citizenB]

What date was the SD issued please.

[citizenB]

ALthough the company in the attached link is different, the situation remains the same. There is a letter in the first post of the link you might find useful.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/158682-capquest-dont-let-them.html

 

HTH.

[agent53]

Thanks for the replies. The SD was issued on 12th March, so I don't have much time. I don't think I can set this aside. Westminsters LLP is a PO box address. What puzzles me is the next letter from another collection agent Newman who say the debt has been passed to them but it has no referral fee so would be less to pay off. How bad would it be to ignore the Statutory demand? I would have complied to the SD if I hadn't got the second DCA letter dated 18th March. I can't pay off the full amount owing but can pay by installments soon.

[citizenB]

Hi, I really dont know too much about Statutory demands, so I will ask a more experienced site member to pop in and advise you.

[caro]

You may find this info useful. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/112326-dcas-statutory-demands-few.html#post1102399

 

You clearly don't owe the money to 2 companies, so they need to provide evidence that they are entitled to enforce the debt. I'd suggest you send CCAs to them. Have you had any Notices of Assignment?

[rory32]

I don't think I can set this aside.

Why do you say this? A statutory demand should only be issued when the amount stated as owing is not disputed. Clearly you will be disputing the amount. They are not entitled to any filing fee, never mind £1300. They are not entitled to any collection fees either.

 

Are you a homeowner?

 

When was this card taken out and have there been any charges added by Am Ex over the account history e.g. late payment fee, overlimit fee?

[pt2537]

(4) The court may grant the application if—

 

 

(a) the debtor appears to have a counterclaim, set-off or cross demand which equals or exceeds the amount of the debt or debts specified in the statutory demand; or

(b) the debt is disputed on grounds which appear to the court to be substantial; or

© it appears that the creditor holds some security in respect of the debt claimed by the demand, and either Rule 6.1(5) is not complied with in respect of it, or the court is satisfied that the value of the security equals or exceeds the full amount of the debt; or

(d) the court is satisfied, on other grounds, that the demand ought to be set aside.

 

 

 

 

 

the above quote is taken from the insolvency rules 1986 and sets out the situations where the court will grant an application to set aside a demand

 

i agree with rory that it would seem you have grounds to apply at least

[agent53]

I got the card in 2006. The last statement I got from AM EX was November 08, when they said the debt had been passed on. Is this a notice of assignment? I did get a letter from RMA in November whilst I was abroad and receiving voicemails from them not having a clue who they were. They have been adding interest I think as the debt is now £6900 as opposed to £6400 in November. I have probably had late payment/over limit charges of £12 each previously. The amount the second DCA has asked for is the same amount as on my AM EX digital banking site which I can log onto but not make payments. I made a payment of £100 in November from my digital bank account and rang am ex to make sure they got it, they did but don't know if it was taken off the balance. I am now working far away from home in my holidays to earn money to pay off my debts.I won't be able to get to my local county court which was mentioned on the SD. Am gradually paying but will take 3 years, what takes 5 years to build up doesn't dissappear over night. I am tempted to ignore the SD and make payments to Newmans, I will also email AM EX . I have read through the info but need to do so seriously. I ignored RMA as the voicemail messages they left were rude, arrogant and ignorant. I can't imagine what they would be like if I actually talked to them. Yes I am a home owner. I will try to understand the processes you have told me about. Thanks for your help

[heliosfa]

did Amex ever send you a Default Notice? if so, can you post up a copy please?

 

The NoA should say who it was assigned to, when and the type of assignment.

 

Thanks,

H

[ScarletPimpernel]

I don't think this debt has been assigned; I've never heard of Amex selling debts, but they do pursue to the bitter end.

 

The way in which RMA are involved followed rapidly by Newmans sounds familiar; it'll be AIC next. Amex seem to give their DCAs a very short time to collect before passing it on.

 

If Westminsters have issued the SD, who is named as the client? Who is the named contact on the SD?

[agent53]

basically Am Ex just put a note on my credit card statement in November. I don't recall a default notice being sent separetly. They didn't say who it was assignerd to, just passed to 'collections'

On the SD, American Expresss Services Europe Ltd. The named contact is Tony Sutton at Westminsters LLP. The letter that accompanied it was signed by Tim Steer, litigation supervisor. They are claiming I owe £7841.51 which is the Am Ex £6600 plus and £1200 plus file fee for RMI. Other CAGs have said they are not entilted to a file fee.

The Newman of £6932 is the same as shows on my internet banking Am Ex site but I can't make payments.via the site I don't want to phone Newmans to make an arrangement but may send a letter meanwhile the RMA SD is oustanding, is it valid? I bought 2 £1 postal orders this evening, do I send them to RMA and Newmans? All I want to do is pay off Am Ex over about a year.

 

I want to pay this debt. On Sunday I weakened and sent an e-mail to Newmans at the address marked enquiries@. That was on Sunday, I have had no reply. Do I ring them and make an arrangement, I admit I owe Am Ex money. Cheers for the advice

[heliosfa]

basically Am Ex just put a note on my credit card statement in November. I don't recall a default notice being sent separetly. They didn't say who it was assignerd to, just passed to 'collections'

On the SD, American Expresss Services Europe Ltd. The named contact is Tony Sutton at Westminsters LLP. The letter that accompanied it was signed by Tim Steer, litigation supervisor. They are claiming I owe £7841.51 which is the Am Ex £6600 plus and £1200 plus file fee for RMI. Other CAGs have said they are not entilted to a file fee.

The Newman of £6932 is the same as shows on my internet banking Am Ex site but I can't make payments.via the site I don't want to phone Newmans to make an arrangement but may send a letter meanwhile the RMA SD is oustanding, is it valid? I bought 2 £1 postal orders this evening, do I send them to RMA and Newmans? All I want to do is pay off Am Ex over about a year.

 

I want to pay this debt. On Sunday I weakened and sent an e-mail to Newmans at the address marked enquiries@. That was on Sunday, I have had no reply. Do I ring them and make an arrangement, I admit I owe Am Ex money. Cheers for the advice

 

OK, a note on your statement is not a default notice...

 

Does anyone more learned know if CPR 31.16 could be used here to get a copy of the Default? (given that a bankruptcy is court action, and set-asside would be court action).

 

I have seen it suggested elsewhere by a member of the site team that you should try and make contact with the person listed on the SD specifically. IF they are un-obtainable or don't exist, then it could make the SD invalid.

[agent53]

I have printed the CCA letter, should I snd it to RMA and Westminsters solicitors. I don't understand how Westminsters via RMA send the SD then another company Newmans DCA send a letter 6 days later saying because the first DCA was unsuccessful the debt has been passed to them. If I started to pay off the debt by installments to Newmans could the SD be applied. It sounds crazy to me. I believe they were all working on behalf of Am Ex but the problem arose because RMA added huge file fees on the original debt. At the time I didn't know the rules just felt it unfair and RMA were obnoxious. Is it correct that the DCA should not add additional fees? Must be as Newmand are asking for the correct amount as I see it.

[RW Fugitive]

From my experience AMEX are very aggresive in getting debts paid back .. they got a charging order on my old house through a CCJ and when I sold they got every penny I owed and then some

 

Nasty company all over from my experience, terrible customer service, rude... deffo stay away from them in the future.

 

Just my thoughts... sorry

[Crapstone]

Was the SD signed for or just sent through the post? Did it even have have court named on it?

 

Statutory Demands are scare tactics and anyone can download the form but that doesn't mean it's official. It has to be served properly with an afferdavit sworn and they can be costly to the lender to follow through without guarantee that they will get a penny from the pecking order.

 

I've had 4, all sent through the post without any effort made to have them served. I've ignored them as I know how they should be served and what they should contain. None of them have been correct and it's a debt collectors dream to have you panic and pay up. It's a scare tactic and I know this because I am a licenced debt collector.

 

I have yet to meet anyone that has had an SD enforced against them when sent through the post and you are wasting your time and money setting it aside when they won't even register it.

[Crapstone]

Unless you have been given a default notice then your contract remains with the original company. A small note on your statement isn't a default notice. Ask them for copies but also send them a request asking for the interest to be suspended. Send a statement of affairs showing what money you have spare as an offer of payment but don't offer more than you can afford over at least the next 12 months. After that it can be reviewed and you may be in a position to offer more or less depending on your future situation.

 

Statutory Demands don't measure up to much as it's free for the company to send them. If they were serious they would be going for a CCJ and some security if you didn't respond. With an SD they will be doing any other creditors you have a favour at their own expense and yourself if you are on the verge of declaring bankruptcy.

[agent53]

Thanks Fugitive, I toally agree with you about Amex. That's why I want this debt paid and all my others, but the other creditors are being reasonable. Egg gave me a reduced interest loan to pay off my Egg card but that was before the credit crunch when I had already started my own credit crunch. LOL.

Crapstone, thanks for your info. SD was sent and signed for by my postie. Don't ask, It's an arrangement we have. The court stated was my home city court.

I got an email from Newmans the 2nd DCA today, who were asking for the correct amount with no file fee. I offered £500 per month, their offer was a bit tough £740+ x 4 monthly installments then the balance remaining paid after that. I can just make the 4 payments as I am expecting a tax refund but that will leave a balance of £3500+, I can't see me being able to get that. Any advice? I have Newmans Bank details so can make direct payments as I said I had to deal with them via post or email.

I haven't written to Amex. I rang them in November and they said they couldn't have anything to do with the account but gave me an address to complain about RMA. I haven't as yet.

I agree about the SD. How can they make me bankrupt if I am already paying off the debt to another DCA.

What do I need to ask Newmans for eg Monthly statement etc. All I have from them is a letter saying Amex pased the collection to them as the other DCA were unsuccessful. It stated the amount I owe which was what was on my Amex internet bank account so I am Ok with that figure no File fees like RMAs £1300+

Newmans say the first payment should be in their account by 31st March, which I can do but I need to negotiate what happens after the first 4 payments or should I cross that bridge when I come to it?

Many thanks to all who have helped and still will

I am thankful I am in work and able to work in my holidays to earn extra money, some poor souls have no jobs, they must be terrified when they get the lkes of RMA etc bullying them. I owe the money and will pay it back. This has been an education. It could have been far worse for me and no doubt is for many others.

[Crapstone]

A DCA can't add on any fees under a CCA.

 

Ask them for everything they have on you under a Subject Access Request and any assignment authority.

 

All you can do is give them an income/expenditure form and offer what you can on a long term basis. Get in first and make an offer you can manage, not what they request. As long as you are paying then you are putting yourself in a good position rather than making promises you might not be able to keep in future. It really is crunch time and you have to be reserved in what you offer as nothing is quite as secure as it seems.

 

Send your CCA request to the companies that are asking for payment and I'm sure you aware that if they can't provide them then you only be under a moral obligation to make payments and not a legal one that can be enforced through the courts, although they may say otherwise.

[RW Fugitive]

Good luck Agent53 and you are right to want to get rid of them as quickly as possible!

[42man]

Agent please have a read through this forum too... - DCA Legal Successes - The Consumer Forums

[nicklea]

I have recieved a Statutory Demand from Westminsters LLP who I believe are asociated with RMA.

 

Hi agent53,

 

This is an important question. Exactly who is named on the first page of the SD as the creditor in the bit that says:-

 

"This demand is served on you by the creditor:"

 

As the answer to this will help people to know how to advise you

[agent53]

Hi all, the creditor name on the SD is Amex services Europe ltd. I am ignoring it as I have now made an arrangement with newmans via email. Their original request was too much but I am now in a fortunate position of earning more money in my time off. I have made an offer which they have accepted and will be reviewed in 3 months. Whatever they want it will take 11 months to pay off, so they have to take it or leave it, didn't say that to them though. As has been said Amex want their money. I do feel morally obliged to pay, Catholic upbringing Lol. They are definately working with and for AMEX. I am not sure if it is worth sending any CCA or SAR requests? I just want rid. I am gradualy paying off everyone else. Learned a huge lesson, will only ever have one credit card from now on! Have managed to retain two not defaulted and am now in a position of not having to use them, that's an achievement, sad I know. Most of my salary goes on paying off debt but it will improve. I am lucky to have a secure job and the ability to earn extra with a bit of effort. Thanks everyone