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    • scan up the agreement to PDF  read upload carefully please   easy peasy if you have that   dx  
    • Understood. Maybe as a first step it would be a good idea to write to Amazon and tell them that I would have selected the prepaid hermes drop-off option, like I always do, but I wasn't able to as that option wasn't available for the laptop. Additionally, after Hermes not collecting the item on two consecutive times with the Hermes home pick-up option, I was advised by a customer service assistant to organize the return myself as there is no point in choosing the home pick-up service for the third time. Following his advice and returning the laptop myself being the only available option to send it back to Amazon, I have decided to organize the return myself. I was told that I can use any of the shipping services. To quote I was told: "I could only find the pickup option. So you could arrange your own return using parcel monkey: www.parcelmonkey.com or any similar service. Keep the receipt and send it to: ...url... And we will refund you the postage fees". I didn't get any other instructions and I did what I was told by the assistant to the letter.  What else should I add? Should I mention anything else?   I understand that. I am not afraid of that, I do think that nothing protects them from having to compensate a consumer where they have failed to take reasonable care in performing the contracted service. They have a general duty of care, and they have also failed to provide the service paid for. I really hope that the judge sees it that way too. But maybe Amazon realize the mistake they made and I won't have to sue Hermes. To be honest I think it is disgusting what they do... There is no way to lose a package of 70X40X15. It is way too big. And what are the chances that they lose another package of mine that I send with the laptop at the same time? Obviously someone stole them. What else could have happened? How can they not find the driver who was responsible for the package at the time of moving it from the ParcelShop to the sorting warehouse? And if something happened to the car/driver, it must be logged somewhere. And I would like to see that log (I actually asked them to provide that in my last letter). The whole thing is just unbeliavable.
    • if other details match and this is as a result of say a marriage then yes. CCJ's are not against an address.    
    • Thanks DX and BN.   He did keep saying he’s done loads of parking cases in the past, over the 10 years he’d been doing it, so as you say he’s bound to have come across VCS stuff before isn’t he.   hopefully that’s the case then he just wants to go through it in a bit more detail. Either way you have given me a lot more confidence again now thanks.
    • From Alasdair Macleod , 40 years in stockbroking and financial  analysis  The Eurozone is bust. The deterioration of TARGET2 imbalances have been hardly noticed, but in recent months it has been alarming. Despite official denials over the years that it is a matter of concern, it is increasingly obvious that the national banks of Italy, Spain and other nations with increasing bad debts are hiding them within the TARGET2 system. The first wave of Covid-19, which is leading to bankruptcies throughout the Eurozone, is now being followed by a second wave, which will almost certainly take out a number of important banks, in which case the cross-border euro system will implode.   https://www.goldmoney.com/research/goldmoney-insights/the-destruction-of-the-euro
  • Our picks

    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
      • 49 replies
    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Once again thank you for your invaluable support.

I assume the court said no expert witnesses because [problem] hadn't requested any in their AQ. I wonder if this is because less is required in small claims and they know the court.........:eek:

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Once again thank you for your invaluable support.

I assume the court said no expert witnesses because [problem] hadn't requested any in their AQ. I wonder if this is because less is required in small claims and they know the court.........:eek:

 

Disclosure rules do appear to be limited in small claims, but your DJ appears to be on the ball and seems to have instructed **** to provide the documents you have requested. :)

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Civil Evidence Act, not a long thread, but full of valuable information.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/162535-documents-court-civil-evidence.html

 

HTH

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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Post 222 Says 'Original Documents must be provided on the day'

 

I like that bit !!:D

 

 

Absolutely :)

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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[problem] have replied,

'The claimant has now received full clarification of the claim and has not as mentiond in para 4 of defence filed an amended fully particularised defence'.

Have we made a mistake here as we have only received an illegible application form which they are calling a credit agreement. it does say app noXXXX and acc noXXX.

They have also sent t & cs which are obviously not from the back of the form as they run into 7 pages.

No DN which is mentioned in AQ

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The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations,

• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended and proof of service,

• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon.

 

This was part of Draft Order for Directions on AQ. [problem] have only sent the same illegible application form which is a copy of a microfiche.

Have they complied with the DJs directions?

[problem] also state we should have amended our defence after they sent this in August.

Any suggestions very gratefully received!

Edited by cymruambyth
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Hmmm, it looks to me as though they are going to rely on the original form they sent you if they have sent the same one. I imagine that you will need to put in a defence to the best of your ability with the inforamation you have.

 

I will try and get some further comment for you.

 

When was the draft order issued ?

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hmmm, your defence suggests you will put in an amended defence on receipt of the signed and legible agreement.. you asked for directions

 

Small claims track.

Claimant must clarify the case by filing at court and serving on all other parties a full written reply to the defence (embarrassed) and copies of documents referred to by next week

 

Did LTSB do this ??

 

By early December claimant must send to court and all other parties a undle which must contain all documents you wish court to consider at hearing

Defendant etc must by xxDecember send claimant and court a bundle with docs etc

Defendants bundle to include contracts, letters, invoices, receipts etc; in date order and numbered and own witness statement

DJ will review file after **** have submitted documents and consider whether complied and if further directions

Original documents must be brought to court on day of trial

If yoyu do not comply trial may not proceed

No expert witness evidence permitted

 

The above is the order from the court it doesnt say anything about you putting in an amended defence.. I guess you will cover anything you need to in your Witness statement/amended defence which needs to be with the court and claimant in December.

 

And here are your directions. You do say at the bottom that you will file the amended defence, but only on receipt of the paperwork requested.

 

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

 

Section G - other information

 

1. It is requested the court give consideration to using its case management powers pursuant to part 3.4 of the Civil Procedure Rules to strike out the claimants claim for failing to comply with the requirements of inter alia part 16.2(1) (d) and fails to comply with the requirements of practice Direction 16 in so far that it fails to comply with point 7.3 which states

 

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing,

 

The claimant failings to supply this documentation has placed me at a serious disadvantage, especially when it is considered that the credit agreement must comply with the Consumer Credit act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Agreement) regulations made under the act. The consequences of the document failing to comply with the regulations and the Act can render the agreement unenforceable even by the honourable court.

 

If the court does not consider it appropriate to strike out the claimants case as suggested above, I respectfully request that the court considers the request set out below in point 2

 

 

 

2. If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

 

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations

• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,

• Document, contract or deed of assignment

• Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

• An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order

 

 

 

Fortunately the order from the Judge has not suggested if you DO NOT put in an amended or fully particularised defence that there will be a strike out !!. :D

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks citb. So, I don't need to panic (yet) and need to start prepaing a ws which can try to be an amended defence. As I do not consider that they have complied I do not need to ask for permission to change my defence.

They state roughly:

'the defendant refers to receiving a copy of the CCA in a letter, though he calls it a pre-contractural application form. In response to cpr 31.14 sent CCA (same illeg applicn form etc) & clear copy of t&c which wre on the back of CCA. Agreement was properly executed, contained all the prescribed terms and was signed by Defendant & Claimant.'

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Thanks citb. So, I don't need to panic (yet) and need to start prepaing a ws which can try to be an amended defence. As I do not consider that they have complied I do not need to ask for permission to change my defence.

They state roughly:

'the defendant refers to receiving a copy of the CCA in a letter, though he calls it a pre-contractural application form. In response to cpr 31.14 sent CCA (same illeg applicn form etc) & clear copy of t&c which wre on the back of CCA. Agreement was properly executed, contained all the prescribed terms and was signed by Defendant & Claimant.'

 

That is my understanding of the above.

 

 

Obviously 7 pages of T&Cs cannot possibly have been on the back of an A4 sheet of paper, not unless a spider wrote them on ?

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Think a flanker is being pulled ........

DJ has varied 'all original documents must be brought to court on the day of the trial '

to

'where such documents are in the possession or control of the party relying on them'

Advice please on how to deal with this as order states that 'any party affected by this order may apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of service'

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Have hit the panic button for you. LTSB are requesting these variation orders quite a lot in order to avoid producing agreements and default notices. I think there is something very dodgy going on.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I agree, and I rather suspect that there is little can be done. But still looking for you.

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I miay be wrong but i think this can play into your hands

 

 

 

if they produce a microfiche/not original agreement at court and don't produce witnesses (ie the real person that produced that copy document) that can vouch for when where how they were produced it can work in your favour as whoever submits the document is likely to be a third party to it

 

search through x20's threads as there are a list of searching questions that you can ask the person claiming to submit the microfiche copy as evidence

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Think a flanker is being pulled ........

 

DJ has varied 'all original documents must be brought to court on the day of the trial '

to

'where such documents are in the possession or control of the party relying on them'

 

Advice please on how to deal with this as order states that 'any party affected by this order may apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of service'

 

In addition to what dd has said..I have just had a thought.. that statement I have highlighted. If they do not bring them as they are no longer in possession or control.. then surely they will not be able to RELY on them.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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