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I have written to my lender regarding my loan requesting the CCA - only to be told that they are not obliged to send me a copy as I should have kept the first one I "was given" at the time of the loan acceptence.

 

Naturally, I know that they have either lost it or they think Im daft, so I replied stating the full rules that they need to comply with, and again Ive heard nothing back. The first letter was sent just after christmas and on beoth occassions they have failed to acknowledge and/or send my the required documents.

 

Question: How do I proceed from here? and...

What happned if they suddenly produce my CCA say ina few months from now?

 

Im guessing that I now (at the current moment in time) can consider this agreement legally unenforceable - but can this situation be reversed if they come up with the paperwork at some time in the future..?

 

Thought please chaps.. thanks,

 

SP

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Yes if they come up with the required paperwork in it's correct format then it becomes enforceable again unfortunately! Thats what i'm led to believe anyway, i'm sure someone else will come and confirm this!!

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Hi,

I'm in the same situation with my bank. I asked them in October for my signed credit agreement. As far as I'm concerned I've never had a copy. They've finally admitted in February 09 that they don't have it, but I'm still liable to pay my loan.

 

Furthermore, when I originally took the loan out, I required it over 4 years, but they insisted I did it over 7 years, which I wasn't happy about, but didn't have a choice at the time. To add to the confusion,they did provide an agreement, but it was for the 4 year one which was superceded. Even that hadn't been signed by a Manager and dated.

 

They ignored all my previous letters asking for the original agreement, it was only when I didn't pay, they've finally taken notice. Can they take me to court without a signed credit agreement? Any advice would be helpful, before I write my next letter to them

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Hi,

I'm in the same situation with my bank. I asked them in October for my signed credit agreement. As far as I'm concerned I've never had a copy. They've finally admitted in February 09 that they don't have it, but I'm still liable to pay my loan.

 

Furthermore, when I originally took the loan out, I required it over 4 years, but they insisted I did it over 7 years, which I wasn't happy about, but didn't have a choice at the time. To add to the confusion,they did provide an agreement, but it was for the 4 year one which was superceded. Even that hadn't been signed by a Manager and dated.

 

They ignored all my previous letters asking for the original agreement, it was only when I didn't pay, they've finally taken notice. Can they take me to court without a signed credit agreement? Any advice would be helpful, before I write my next letter to them

 

Hi mate, well as far as I know, if they dont produce the agreement within the correct time frame (12 days of asking) then it becomes defaulted and you are not bliged to make payments towards it and they are annot forced payments from you. They are not allowed to do anything with it!

 

BUT, yes as supasta1 says, if they DO find it and send it on (so long as it all 100% good) then you then are liable to continue with the payments..

 

 

 

What I dont get is, at what point (if the lender has admitted that they dont have it in their records) do they officially "give in" as such and acknowledge it and then write it off..?

 

SP

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I have written to my lender regarding my loan requesting the CCA - only to be told that they are not obliged to send me a copy as I should have kept the first one I "was given" at the time of the loan acceptence.

 

Naturally, I know that they have either lost it or they think Im daft, so I replied stating the full rules that they need to comply with, and again Ive heard nothing back. The first letter was sent just after christmas and on beoth occassions they have failed to acknowledge and/or send my the required documents.

 

Question: How do I proceed from here? and...

What happned if they suddenly produce my CCA say ina few months from now?

 

Im guessing that I now (at the current moment in time) can consider this agreement legally unenforceable - but can this situation be reversed if they come up with the paperwork at some time in the future..?

 

Thought please chaps.. thanks,

 

SP

 

Hi

 

Did you make a formal request under s77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and send them £1 and by recorded delivery?

 

If they have not complied then they are in default and cannot enforce the agreement until they have.

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Hi

 

Did you make a formal request under s77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and send them £1 and by recorded delivery?

 

If they have not complied then they are in default and cannot enforce the agreement until they have.

 

I did that previously yeh, and now the first BarcCard - are telling me that they do not have my "application" in the their records - they took 2 months to write and the second one HLFX, told me that they are not keobliged to send me a copy as I should have kept myown one at time I took the loan out!! This again was 2 months ago - SO

 

I wrote to them both today and told them they were in default as they flauted the rules and did not comply. However, where do I go from here and what exactly does it mean for me - I know they are "unenforceable" but what if the bank ignores all this and carries on as usual?

 

I requested for them to reimburse me of my payments I'd made to them over the years...!! We'll see what happens but Im not sure Im in such a strong position with it just being unenforceable due to them not sending it to me - do I need to get them to "recognise" the fact too that this is the case?

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I did that previously yeh, and now the first BarcCard - are telling me that they do not have my "application" in the their records - they took 2 months to write and the second one HLFX, told me that they are not keobliged to send me a copy as I should have kept myown one at time I took the loan out!! This again was 2 months ago - SO

 

I wrote to them both today and told them they were in default as they flauted the rules and did not comply. However, where do I go from here and what exactly does it mean for me - I know they are "unenforceable" but what if the bank ignores all this and carries on as usual?

 

I requested for them to reimburse me of my payments I'd made to them over the years...!! We'll see what happens but Im not sure Im in such a strong position with it just being unenforceable due to them not sending it to me - do I need to get them to "recognise" the fact too that this is the case?

 

A few questions on this one........

 

When was the loan taken out?

 

Why do you think they have flouted the rules?

 

What rules are you referring to?

 

The debt still exists but may or may not be enforcable and this is usually decided by the court.

 

BC will have probably sent you a template agreement and set of T&C's which will satisfy the provisions of the CCA 1974. Mercers will have a go and then the debt will probably be sold on. It may take a few years before they give up or litigate.

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HI -thanks for getting back.

 

OK - BC 2001 took the card out. Missed 1 payment - not being chased as such. Requested agreement in Dec - heard back in Feb saying the they "dont hold a copy of my application in their records" and that was it - nothing else. So I sent a letter today claiming that the account was now in dispute as they have not provided me with an agreement or in fact anything within 12 days - it was 2 months before I even go that respsone letter !!

 

I took out a HLF loan in Nov 2007 which was a top up from a loan with them from Feb 2007 - they told me after writing back after about 5 weeks, that they are "not obliged to send me any agreement as i had one to start with and should have kept it".

 

I told them as they have failed to comply with the Act where requesting agreements is concerned, they are now in default.

 

I've probably overstepped the mark somewhat but I'll wait and see what the replies are..

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  • 1 month later...

Well the bank have finally admitted in writing that they don't have it and that they can't pursue me for the money, under the CCA I wrote them a letter based on templates from here (thanks everyone - most helpful).

 

The latest letter I've sent is to ask them to remove the default from the credit ref agencies. Surely if they don't have my signed credit agreement, they don't have permission to use my data with the credit ref agencies?

 

They've also started to phone and hassle me, but I told them I'm not speaking to them verbally, they have all my letters (which have all been sent recorded delivery and have all been replied to) and to refer to them.

 

I'm hoping this nightmare will end soon, it's been going on since last October

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Spoke to soon Monty, I have today received a default notice and that they will take action to recover the debt. They ignored my last letter completely. To make matters worse, how can they try and take payments from my bank account which I closed with them last year? They are fully aware of this because I was paying them from my new bank account. Anyway charges have now mounted up, they've also sent a default notice to recover the amount of charges they have decided in their wisdom to apply to my "closed" bank account. Are they allowed to do this?

 

I think it's getting serious now, is it worth contacting a solicitor or just keep persevering with letters etc?

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

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I would have thought that the solution if they can't or won't produce the CCA - do a CPR 31.16 letter - then when they don't comply make an application for an Order and if they still can't find it bring proceedings for a declaration of unenforceability under s142 of the consumer credit act. Assuming that they don't find a valid cca before you get the declaration then they are stuffed.

 

I think the approach to adopt is to accept that there is an agreement BUT argue that it was never reduced into writing or if it was that it does not contain the prescribed terms - certainly for cases under the old S127 (3) unless they can produce a signed agreement containing all of the prescribed terms they're stuffed - unfortunately the newer agreements aren't that clear cut

Edited by I've got no money

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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I took out a HLF loan in Nov 2007 which was a top up from a loan with them from Feb 2007 - they told me after writing back after about 5 weeks, that they are "not obliged to send me any agreement as i had one to start with and should have kept it".

 

That is so funny! At first I didn't believe they had said that, but, it must be true - you couldn't make up stuff like this.

 

But, the thing to remember is, following the introduction of the 2006 CCA a lot of these defences concerning unenforceability for loans taken out more recently have disappeared.

 

I would suggest that it is very likely that they do have a signed agreement in existence. In order to check I would suggest you send them a sar and specifically request to see it.

 

Of course, what I've got no money says above is always worth doing as well.

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Spoke to soon Monty, I have today received a default notice and that they will take action to recover the debt. They ignored my last letter completely. To make matters worse, how can they try and take payments from my bank account which I closed with them last year? They are fully aware of this because I was paying them from my new bank account. Anyway charges have now mounted up, they've also sent a default notice to recover the amount of charges they have decided in their wisdom to apply to my "closed" bank account. Are they allowed to do this?

 

I think it's getting serious now, is it worth contacting a solicitor or just keep persevering with letters etc?

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Do you have a final statement from the bank, showing "account closed", you should have, if so, they are stuffed on this one!

Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Unfortunately, I had "paperless" statements, but they are fully aware that I closed the bank account. I rang them a few times to check, I've had several run in's with this bank. The way I've been treated is appalling. And, now they have the nerve to take bank payments from an account that they can clearly see is zero and then charge me for the priviledge. This can't be right. Will the Financial Ombudsman help?

 

I'm writing another letter regarding the Credit Agreement, they've admitted they can't enforce it, but are continuing to to deafult me with the CR Agencies, which they can't, because they've never had my signature to allow them to do this. Going to stick to my guns and persevere.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No, because I don't know how to start one

 

Also my bank have admitted that they don't have the agreement and will not enforce it, because there's no proof of the loan in the first place.

 

However, they are continuing to place a default against me, can they do that without an agreement?

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