CCA received - enforceable? First one - help please!

[exchange]

Having sent CPR request giving 21 days to respond which was up on the 27 April I have received a letter dated the 22 April saying they 'hope to send a full response within the next 10 working days'. I take it I have to be seen to be reasonable and allow them more time?

[cerberusalert]

To be honest you don't have to do anything further. If they had an enforceable agreement it is pointless them messing about as they are, besides if they were stupid enough to attempt to apply for a CCJ on the evidence they have provided they would lose, there's no two ways about that.

 

You have disputed the a/c twice now & until they resolve the matter there isn't a great deal they can do about it. Even if they passed it on to another DCA they would more than likely drop it like the hot potato it is.

 

Personally I would just wait it out and see what their next move is going to be. I'ts pointless getting involved in a game of postal ping-pong with them.

 

If you are determined to pursue it until they do provide an enforceable agreement, or admit that they don't have one have a read of http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[exchange]

As I am not in the UK a CCJ would be difficult for them and they would have to risk going through the new EU European Order for Payment which is for 'uncontested payments' (which this is not!), which I understand would not be cheap for them and would involve using courts where English is not the first language. I don't intend responding yet as they will write again it seems to my last request under CPR 31.16. Just have to wait and see what's next. Thanks for the swift response Cerberusalert once again.

[cerberusalert]

M&S would sell the debt on rather than tarnishing their corporate image by trying to take enforcement through the EU EoP & as stupid as the majority of DCAs are I think it extremely unlikely that they would try either, particularly if they relied on the documentation supplied so far. They would much rather make a fast buck than have the expense & trouble of pursuing through foreign courts using relatively untried & tested leglislation.

[squidward]

subbing

[exchange]

Response 070509.pdf

 

Response to CPR 31.16 attached without any reference to CPR 31.16. They are sticking to the same answer which is that the application form they sent a copy of is a valid agreement.

As there are no prescribed terms within the four corners of the application and the T&C's from the time are 4 pages long and could not therefore have been on the reverse of the application am I right in thinking that this is now stalemate and I need to wait for there next move again?

[cerberusalert]

Yes just wait until they get back in touch again othertwise you'll just end up playing postal ping-pong.

[exchange]

Thanks for the quick response once again cerberusalert.

 

I will post the next letter sent to me, which I suspect may be from a DCA?

[exchange]

Received a letter today 19 May 2009 dated 6 May 2009 saying that if I don't pay arrears on the account within 10 days they will issue a Default Notice. Difficult to pay within 10 days if their letter takes 13 days to get to me!

I guess I just wait for the default notice now.

[cerberusalert]

No doubt their DN will be as defective as they are.

[diddydicky]

you might also have noted on teh T & C@ss that you posted up that the penalty charges of 12 pounds only came into force in 2006 so if your agreement was prior to this they cannot be the original ones nwhen you took out the (alleged) agreement

[diddydicky]

wow there's a thought- what if we all "moved" to lithuania and invited them to take us to court!

 

those of you with relatives in foreign countries could have a right larf

[exchange]

Thanks for making me smile diddydicky.

They sent two sets of T&Cs. The supposed original ones say penalties are charged at £15.

[diddydicky]

solly wot u say? no speeky engrish

[exchange]

default notice.pdf

 

Attached default notice received today 30 May 2009 dated 14 May 2009 giving me 14 days to remedy!

 

As I am not in the UK I do not know if any difference in timescale should be allowed by the CCC.

 

It is the third default notice I have now received from different CCC's.

 

All of them state remedy within a set period of days but do not specify what the actual date is by which the default must be remedied.

 

All the advice on here states that the default notice would be invalid unless a date is specified but this is now spooking me a bit.

 

I cannot understand how all the CCC's I am dealing with (so far) can make the same mistake with default notices.

 

Some reassurance that this really is a problem for them would be appreciated. Can they really all make the same mistake?

[Reader]

Subbing with interest..

[cerberusalert]

Yep....I was right, the DN is as defective as they are. They cannot stipulate that the default has to be remedied within 14 days of the notice, it has to stipulate a specific date which must give a clear 14 days from service of the DN.

[exchange]

Thans cerberusalert. As the DN took 14 days to get to me it's a joke to expect it to be paid in 14 days. All other CCC letters take 3-5 days to arrive, yet those from M&S always take longer. Does anyone know if it takes them a few days from the letter date to actually post it as there is never a postmark on them?

[cerberusalert]

In the UK first class service is seen as three days (not including weekends), second class is four, but I doubt if service abroad was even taken into account. Mind you this is all prior to eventually obtaining a CCJ which they can't acquire against a non UK resident anyway so it's all academic.

[exchange]

Whoever posts them may not have noticed that the address is not in the UK as the envelopes just have a prepaid 1st Class sticker on them with no airmail or sign that they are paying for overseas postage so I think I may have just answered my own question why letters from them take so long!

[exchange]

Getting the odd call on the home number now from M&S but ignoring.

[diddydicky]

In the UK first class service is seen as three days (not including weekends), second class is four, but I doubt if service abroad was even taken into account. Mind you this is all prior to eventually obtaining a CCJ which they can't acquire against a non UK resident anyway so it's all academic.

 

first class is TWO working days and start counting from day three

[diddydicky]

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

"7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

 

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

 

"With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

 

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

[exchange]

Thanks diddydicky. What if I am not in the UK?

[diddydicky]

to be honest?

 

F****ed if i know!!