CCA received - enforceable? First one - help please!

[exchange]

Letter & App.pdf

 

T&C Current.pdf

 

T&C Original.pdf

 

Hi all

 

I have sent 5 CCA requests and received the first today within the time scale of 12+2 days. Letter, application, T&C's from the time and current T&C's attached. They sent a statement as well which I have not attached.

 

This card was applied for by my wife but an additional card was requested for me, she signed the attached application but I did not.

 

T&C's supposedly from the time show £15 as penalty charges. Does anybody know if this was correct for M&S in 2005?

 

There is no credit limit stated anywhere.

 

I thought the prescribed terms should be in the 4 corners of the agreement or on a linked document. The application refers to sections 8 and 16 of the Terms and Conditions so is this a sufficient 'link' to satisfy the CCAct.

 

All views and any help appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[exchange]

bump

[cerberusalert]

All they have sent are the T&Cs, I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[exchange]

Thanks cerberusalert.

 

Does the application form constitute an excuse for them to say it is an enforceable agreement? In your opinion of course!

[cerberusalert]

Without the prescribed terms an application form is useless & they know it, although they may try to say otherwise But if they do it can be dealt with.

[exchange]

Thanks again.

 

I will send the letter and post the response when I get it.

[exchange]

Bumping but only because I am new to all this and would appreciate anyone elses comments. No disrespect to cerberusalert who has taken the trouble to reply but I am concerned that M&S will claim they have sent what is necessary and will cause us hassle. I guess I am looking for reassurance that I am OK to challenge what they sent. Should I ask the Site Team and if so how do I contact them? I need to reply quickly as the next payment to them is due soon and the money is not there to pay them. Thanks to all in advance.

[lilly white]

Bumping but only because I am new to all this and would appreciate anyone else's comments. No disrespect to cerberusalert who has taken the trouble to reply but I am concerned that M&S will claim they have sent what is necessary and will cause us hassle. I guess I am looking for reassurance that I am OK to challenge what they sent. Should I ask the Site Team and if so how do I contact them? I need to reply quickly as the next payment to them is due soon and the money is not there to pay them. Thanks to all in advance.

 

 

Good afternoon

 

you are not challenging them you have ask for your legal right

Is your signature on this document are the prescribe in the document

cag are self help group

 

only you can make this judgement however do not rush it is a long game

 

best regards Lilly

[lilly white]

Good afternoon

 

you are not challenging them you have ask for your legal right

Is your signature on this document are the prescribed terms in the document

cag are self help group

 

only you can make this judgement however do not rush it is a long game

 

best regards Lilly

 

oops forget to put in terms lilly

[exchange]

Good afternoon Lilly and thanks for replying

 

The application has my wife's signature but not mine although I am named as a second card holder.

 

The credit limit is not specified anywhere that I can see, only referred to in the T&C's but not an amount. The T&C's also specify the APR but this is not on the application and the T&C's are a separate document with no 'link' obvious. Should these prescribed terms be in the four corners of the agreement, (it is an application they have sent), and not on a separate document without a specific credit limit?

[lilly white]

Good afternoon Lilly and thanks for replying

 

The application has my wife's signature but not mine although I am named as a second card holder.

 

The credit limit is not specified anywhere that I can see, only referred to in the T&C's but not an amount. The T&C's also specify the APR but this is not on the application and the T&C's are a separate document with no 'link' obvious. Should these prescribed terms be in the four corners of the agreement, (it is an application they have sent), and not on a separate document without a specific credit limit?

 

IMHO THEY ARE SEPARATE IT IS A APPLICATION FORM IF YOU READ THE APPLICATION IT STATES THAT YOU WILL BE INFORM BY POST OF YOUR CANCELLATION RIGHTS SO THEY WHERE SENT AFTERWARDS NOT IN THE BODY THAT YOU SIGNED PLEASE CHECK THIS AND MAKE A JUDGEMENT

 

 

MAY I ASKED WHEN WAS THE CC TAKEN OUT

 

LILLY WHITE

[fuzzybobble]

The pescribed terms have to be on the signature document. Or proven to be printed on the reverse.

Having them in a seperate document won't do.

 

Also on the T&C's there is no mention of a date, so therefore nothing to prove that they were the correct ones for the date of your agreement. The text, etc is different style to that of the application form, so there's nothing to tie the two documents as being one agreement.

They can't even use the excuse that the T&C's were on the back of the application form, as there's more than one page.

 

In answer to your question about there being no mention of a credit limit. They state that your credit limit will be decided once your sign and return the document. This is ok for them to do, and most credit card agreements are done this way.

[exchange]

Thanks for the replies.

 

To answer Lilly's question the card was applied for in 2005.

 

Seems I can dispute what they have sent.

[lilly white]

As it seems that you have made a judgement i would refer you back to

 

cerberusalert post and letter

 

 

enjoy its sunday

[exchange]

M&S Letter 0309.pdf

 

I have been reading threads, trying to learn and having done my homework I would like opinions on the letter I have composed. I wanted to send a letter relevant to the situation and not send something completely standard from these forums as I would then be as bad as the organisations who churn out standard letters by the million!

 

Any opinions, corrections or additions welcome please.

 

Thanks in advance.

[exchange]

bump

[exchange]

Letter now sent, will post next response.

[lilly white]

well game on

 

next moved could well be to consider a sar ,get ducks in a row, research

 

sar first.It does cost £10 WHO SHOULD GET ALL INFO THAT THEY HAVE.

 

Charges etc possible ppi.

 

lilly

[exchange]

M&S Reply.pdf

 

Having sent the 'In dispute' letter to M&S I have just received this with a FOS booklet. What should my next move be? Thanks in advance.

[cerberusalert]

They are just trying it on, you can either send them this or send a SAR which will cost you £10 & they would have 40 days to comply. Letter #9 The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

Print name do not sign

[exchange]

bump

[exchange]

Apologies cerberusalert, I bumped at the same time you posted a reply!

[exchange]

Cerberusalert, should I mention in your suggested letter that the application form provided is not enough and that is why I am asking for a copy of the agreement? They will say that what they have sent is the agreement, won't they?

[cerberusalert]

Yes you can add that into it if you want.

[exchange]

Thanks for your help again. I will send the letter on Monday.