HSBC CCA Non Compliance

[lee32uk]

Hi everyone

I requested a copy of my cca from HSBC on 30th jan.They have so far failed to supply me with a copy, giving the excuse that they want a copy of my signature first

 

I am not willing to supply this to them (Even though they probably wouldnt use it to recreate a document ).I wrote back to them stating that the consumer credit act does not require me to supply a copy of my signature and also that they have quite happily sent statements etc to my address without questioning my identity.

I have also tried sending a message through HSBC online banking but they are still giving me the brush off asking me to ring them if i need further assistance Dont want to get into a conversation with them so thats a no no.

 

So my question is what can i do ? Should i report them to the ICO for non compliance under the data protection act ? Or anyone have any other suggestions

 

thanks

 

lee

[clemma]

As they have not replied to your CCA request, send them the dispute letter. You can then with hold all payments until they do send you an enforceable CCA (if they do):

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[lee32uk]

Thanks Clemma.I thought i had already sent them a dispute letter, as they were in default on 19th Feb, but on checking my file it seems i didnt send one.

 

 

cheers

Lee

[lee32uk]

Received a letter from HSBC today.Part of the letter states the following:

 

"Following a thorough review of your account, I am writing to inform you that we are ending your credit card agreement.

You can no longer use your card and if you haven't already done so, please return it immediately, cut in two for security reasons.I have enclosed a prepaid envelope (Which they haven't ) for your use.

Can you please pay XXXX immediately."

 

 

Seeing as though they are yet to send me my cca what should i do ?

I sent them the letter below (kindly written by Johnnymitch) but as yet no responce:

 

 

"Reference your (latest letter ref )

As a courtesy to you , I have to advise you that any further prevarication on your part will be reported immediately to the Information Commissioner’s Office and the OFT. You have failed on (insert no . ) occasions to comply with my CCA request , once even to the point of ignoring my online secure message , which leaves no doubt that you are dealing with the correct person .

Any further refusal to comply with my request will not be tolerated . You have (insert no.) working days to produce the documents which I require , before this agreement is considered unenforceable .

Furthermore , I consider that this account is now firmly ‘In Dispute’ until this matter is resolved .

You should also be aware that I will pursue compliance through the Courts using CPR if necessary ."

 

 

Time to dust off the shredder me thinks...they can have the card back in little tiny bits, minus my signature

 

 

thanks

Lee

[johnnymitch]

Wait to see if you do get a satisfactory reply to the letter lee, - if you don't get one come back and we'll try to sort out further action . ...court if necessary .... right ?

 

You could also consider reporting them to Trading Standards as they're not supposed to close or otherwise interfere with an account that is in dispute .

[lee32uk]

Cheers johnny.I think i might report them...they are really starting to get on my nerves at the minute.

 

 

thanks

Lee

[lee32uk]

Just sent this to my local Trading Standards Office through the online website message system:

 

 

Dear sirs

I have recently requested a true copy of my consumer credit agreement from HSBC under S77/78 of the consumer credit act for a credit card account.

The bank have until now refused my request, even after two further follow up letters.

On the 20th march 2009 i received a letter stating that the bank is ending my credit card agreement, and that i can no longer use my card.

As the account in question is in dispute, surely this goes against the Banking Code of practice? I can provide correspondence between myself and HSBC if required.

I would be grateful for your views on this matter.

kind regards

 

 

 

 

Any comments welcome

 

 

Lee

[johnnymitch]

That'll do for starters lee,see what they come back with . Some TS 's are very good at giving chapter and verse on interpretation of the Banking Code - others are just plain rubbish ..... hope you've got a good 'un .... |LOL!

[lee32uk]

Cheers Johnny

 

Doesnt look like my letter (Post 4) has arrived at HSBC

Anyone know if there is a problem with royal mail tracking ? as it just says received at post office.It was posted it on 17th march so it should be there by now.

 

 

cheers

Lee

[lee32uk]

Well got no joy from Trading Standards Received the following message from them:

 

 

 

Dear Lee

Thank you for your enquiry. Such a dispute is dealt with by the financial ombudsman service. Financial providers should have a published complaints procedure that they need to adhere to. If that fails you need to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service. I have attached the link for the website which is:

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

 

Regards

 

Alistair Newton

 

Trading Standards Team Leader

 

 

 

 

Not really sure if its worth complaining to the FOS as they seem to be snowed under at present.Maybe the Information Commissioner would be a better idea

 

 

cheers

lee

[clemma]

Complain to them anyway - both FOS and Information Commissioner (also the OFT). They may be busy at the moment - but they will get round to seeing your complaint eventually!!

[johnnymitch]

You're more likely to have luck with ICO , lee..... FOS are working on a massive backlog of complaints and are reportedly using untrained students to filter and prioritise complaints ...........

[lee32uk]

Hi all

Just been looking through my credit file on experian and noticed that my hsbc account isnt on there anymore

I know they terminated the agreement, but surely it would still appear ? Or does it mean that that it could reappear under a DCA name ?

 

thanks

lee

[johnnymitch]

Hi lee, I would say if it's the same debt then it can only be reported once , otherwise the 6-year date for erasure would keep slipping - I don't suppose the time has expired on it ? It's certainly worth pursuing , I'd be interested to know the outcome .......

[lee32uk]

hi Johnny

 

The card is/was a current one.The last time i made a payment was towards the end of Jan 09, and since they havent supplied me with the cca as yet, then i stopped paying them.

Seems odd that it would just dissapear from my record.I am still able to view the account through hsbc online banking.

 

Any suggestions on what i should do ? Or maybe its best to keep quiet for now

 

thanks

lee

[johnnymitch]

I'd be inclined to let it ride for the moment , lee...... but keep an eye on the experian reports in case it appears back effective from a later date than the original .......

[johnnymitch]

Just an afterthought lee - (as usual , lol!)

 

Maybe they have to remove it if the account is in dispute ? In case it's on there under false pretenses? I wouldn't credit them with the decency to do that unless they have to though... so maybe not ......

[lee32uk]

Ive just been thinking that maybe HSBC dont use Experian ? and maybe use one of the other credit reference agencies ? Reading the link below seems like it could be possible.Does anyone know if HSBC use experian or not?

 

 

Experian | Ask Max | Accounts "missing" from your credit report

 

Thanks

Lee

[johnnymitch]

Sorry ,lee , I thought you said it had disappeared from experian--

 

Just been looking through my credit file on experian and noticed that my hsbc account isn't on there anymore

 

However the final bits of max's spiel was what i was saying -

 

a. Maybe taken off because 'In Dispute' or

b. Because they're not sure just how much it is now and don't want to be forced to remove it ...........

 

In rare instances, a technical issue may prevent an account from being shown on your credit report, even if the lender is providing the information to Experian.

 

In some instances, the account is temporarily not shown, for instance when two companies are merging. The account may be removed from the credit report at the request of the business until it completes consolidation of its records. That helps ensure the account information is consolidated correctly so that the information is not shown incorrectly on your credit report.

 

In those instances, the account information will be restored automatically. So keep your eye out for it coming back !!

 

Most of the time, however, an account is “missing” because the business has chosen not to report your account to Experian. Because there is no business relationship between Experian and the business, Experian has no ability to add the account.

 

Thanks for asking.

 

[johnnymitch]

Must admit I'm not sure on this one though, lee - so if you find out different reasons , I'll be all agog !

 

Someone else may also come along with another explanation .....

[lee32uk]

Hi Johnny

Im 99% certain that it was on my report.I have just had a quick look on experian and looking at my earliest available credit report, which is feb 7th 2009 it isn't on there either

I cant check any further back than this, but surely if i sent a cca request on 30th jan then i cant see that they would remove my details a week later ?

I think i need some sleep...my head hurts

 

 

cheers

Lee

[lee32uk]

Hi everyone

 

Im just wondering what the legal stance is regarding HSBC terminating my credit card agreement whilst the account was in dispute, and also devoid of any default notice.

Does the CCA 1974 allow them to continue collections after they terminate the agreement of there own accord ??

 

(Had a letter today asking for payment )

 

Ive been reading some of the posts in the thread below (especially the ones by toymaker1) Post number 77 makes for interesting reading

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1627735.html

 

 

Anyone got any thoughts on the matter

 

cheers

Lee

[lee32uk]

Regarding my post above, i am going to send HSBC the following brief letter

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

RE: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx March 2009 Ref xxx/xx

 

I am quite surprised to see that HSBC has chosen to terminate the above account whilst it is in dispute and devoid of any default notice.

I would be grateful if the bank could clarify where in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it entitles you to take such actions.

I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Is there anything i should add/delete ??

 

many thanks

Lee

[johnnymitch]

Hi Lee ,

 

Did you get any direct replies to clemma's or my letters ?

 

If not, I 'm not sure that they'll respond to a short note with no threats of retaliation for non-compliance .......

 

You have threatened them with court via CPR - maybe it's time to follow through ...........

 

Also , did you report them to ICO ? You see my thinking is that you have to exhaust all channels of communication before taking it to court , or the court will probably want to know why you didn't ........

 

By all means respond to their demand for payment with a sharp reminder that the account is in dispute as a result of their failure to respond to your CCA ........and that until the dispute is settled no further payments will be made .

 

But you will be gathering evidence of their non-compliance and the non-replies to your letters, for if you have to take the court road - which you might have to ....... :-|

[lee32uk]

Hi Johnny

Ive not had any direct responses to any letters sent.The last one received was to tell me that they would be terminating my agreement, which i presume is in retaliation to me not paying them and putting the account in dispute.

 

I sent them the following letter (which you posted in a previous thread on here) :

 

"Reference your (latest letter ref )

As a courtesy to you , I have to advise you that any further prevarication on your part will be reported immediately to the Information Commissioner’s Office and the OFT. You have failed on (insert no . ) occasions to comply with my CCA request , once even to the point of ignoring my online secure message , which leaves no doubt that you are dealing with the correct person .

Any further refusal to comply with my request will not be tolerated . You have (insert no.) working days to produce the documents which I require , before this agreement is considered unenforceable .

Furthermore , I consider that this account is now firmly ‘In Dispute’ until this matter is resolved .

You should also be aware that I will pursue compliance through the Courts using CPR if necessary ."

I gave them 10 working days to respond which is up on 3rd April.If i dont get a reply then i will report them to the ICO and then also court action.

I will hold back with my letter for now

cheers

Lee