Mint - what a load of rubbish they've sent !

[Abby25]

Hi all,

 

CCA'd Mint, and recd a reply today, couple of days after 12&2 timing.

 

This was originally an RBS Advanta card, which was changed by RBS to Mint, during their rebranding.

 

As you will see from their covering letter, they have said that they have provided generic credit agreement terms, from the time my card was taken out, interestingly it quotes 2002 in it, but my RBS was before this !! They also say that they don't have to provide an actual signed copy of my agreement. (which I know is true on a basic CCA request).

 

They have also included a copy letter, not dated, and I have no copy of this in my records either, which is discussing the issuing of replacement Mint card, also has T&Cs attached, which appear current, but I have no idea really as nothings dated!!

 

Interestingly the credit limit quoted in this letter, which has had to be be blanked out, is my current limit ... I haven't had a recent card, so really have no idea what going on here either...!

 

Finally, copy of most recent statement, which seems ok ... phew !!

 

Guys, have a look at the docs, any comments on what they've sent??

 

Also, is my next best move to SAR them? Will they have to give me a copy of my signed/executed agreeement on a SAR request, or will they try and wriggle out ... as I don't think they have anything, from looking at what they have sent me!

 

Thanks all ... !!!

Mint cover letter.pdf

Mint generic CCA provided.pdf

Mint supplementary letter and t&cs.pdf

[clemma]

You can either send the dispute letter, or try and get a copy of a signed agreement using the following letter:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)

 

obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

 

Regards

[Abby25]

Could anyone advise if the above letter is better to use than a SAR request?

 

Which one is more likely for a result, or then admiting no signed docs held?

 

Thanks all ...

[cerberusalert]

The letter above is better also £10 cheaper + they have to respond within 21 days rather than 40.

[Abby25]

Right you are .... thanks for the headsup on this, and also to Clemma who kindly posted the letter for me.

 

Will post off today to the little blighters ... and give an update as soon as I have one .....

 

Thanks again x

[Abby25]

Ooh .. quick q ... is it 21 calender or working days ?

[cerberusalert]

Calender

[spartathisis]

I too have recvd reply back from Minr/RBS this week. I sent a SAR January rcvd 6 yrs worth of monthly payment slips!!, a copy of my application form and a copy of latest t & c`s. Sent dispute letter and recvd same again and letter stating they have complied with data requirements.

 

I wonder if Mr Brown et al know that a government owned bank is not complying with its own and previous governments legislation?

[Abby25]

Even better, I was just working out 21 working ... many thanks again for your help Cerb. !!

 

Update as soon as I have one ...

[Abby25]

Well Spart, as far as I'm, aware an application isn't (by nature) a agreement ... so would be a good idea, if you need any help, to post up the application form, so the fab experts can have look and give you advice ...

[Abby25]

Have sent off above CPR today, so they have until 5 April to respond. Quick Q - can they still refuse to supply the signed agreement even after my CPR letter?

 

Just want to get a bit ahead of the game really.

 

Thanks guys .. !

[clemma]

Have sent off above CPR today, so they have until 5 April to respond. Quick Q - can they still refuse to supply the signed agreement even after my CPR letter?

 

Just want to get a bit ahead of the game really.

 

Thanks guys .. !

 

The only reason they would refuse to supply it is if they did not have it

 

If they had a copy, and they want you to pay, then they would send it to you.

[Abby25]

Thanks Clemma, thanks again for the letter ... big hug xox

 

I know I'm jumping the gun, but if that happened would I just send them the normal dispute letter, saying that it's in dispute as they have refused to comply with my CPR request? And then see where that takes me....

 

Thanks again xx

[clemma]

Oh, ermmm, I would presume so. I haven't had to find out for anyone yet. It would probably just be a case of jiggling the letter to suit. Will look into it

 

SCRAP that - have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Your next letter would be:

 

FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

CPR part 31.16

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

On XXXXX i wrote to your organisation requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. My request extended to the full agreement which bore my signature. Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker {ONLY USE IF RELEVENT AND INCLUDED IN THE FIRST LETTER}

 

I enclose a copy of the letter which was sent should for your information.

 

I note that to date i have not received a reply from your organisation nor have i received a copy of the agreement which i requested. in view of the circumstances i do not feel it unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed, it is not commercially sensitive nor is it a restricted document and should be easily accessible for an organisation such as yours. therefore i would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature, i require the complete document with all its parts .

 

the reasons why i require this information are clearly set out within my original letter dated XXXXX , but for clarity i require this document for the following reasons

 

1.I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed

 

2. Because i believe that the Payment protection insurance was not correctly incorporated within the agreement

 

3.because i believe that there was a commission paid in repect of this agreement which has not been disclosed to me and therefore is a breach of agency law

 

4. ...................

 

 

 

 

 

 

since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and gioven that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, i must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

 

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim i may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore i again ask that you provide me with the documents which i have previously requested . I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request i will be left no option but to make an application to XXXX County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested.

 

additionally i will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary

 

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on XXXXXXX that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing

 

Regards

 

XXXXXXXXXX

second letter

[Abby25]

You're an angel .. and hopefully it will help others too ...

 

xx

[Abby25]

Hi all,

 

Mint have until Monday to reply with the copy agreement, after I sent the original CPR request.

 

I had originally asked for a copy of the agreement, as I wanted to check how they applied interest, and why it wasn't reducing in line with the recent changes in BOE rates (which I'm stating as my basis for requesting agreements for all my ccards) - but all Mint provided was a generic agreement from the time.

Anyhoo, can I have an opinion if the above letter kindly posted by the lovely Clemma is the best next stage of proceedings?

 

Mint by the way have called a couple of times when I stopped payments after they sent the generic docs. However, I advised them that as the acct was in dispute, payments had been temporarily suspended until the matter was resolved.

 

They seemed to be ok with that, and I haven't had a call for a good 2 weeks - also no chasing letters received ..... yet !!!

[spartathisis]

I have sent account in dispute letter, no response and then account in serious dispute (thought they might shake in their boots;)). Got usual standard reply pay us arrears or DCA involved, now im shaking in my boots.

 

Think putting in a complaint to everyone is the next step.

[Abby25]

You go for it ..... !!! But, why waste a stamp .... they can't proceed down the (undisputed) court route and the will know this....

 

My plan will be to let them issue court proceedings (if thats how they play it) and get them struck out (think thats what you say, if they are the ones in the wrong ?).

 

Keep in touch on this my fellow Minter !!!

[spartathisis]

sounds like a cheesy group from the 60`s, Abby, Sparta & The Minters!

[WelshMam2009]

Could be wrong but I don't think you can use CPR unless you've filed court papers...maybe worth checking out...

[robinredbreast]

wrong thread

[Abby25]

Well I wrote again to Mint to say that I hadn't recd a reply to my CPR31 letter.

They replied today, they said that it had been referred to their legal department, who are satisfied that they application I signed, which later formed the agreement,, is fully compliant with section 61 of the CCA, and as such the debt is recoverable.

 

They have gone on to say that due to the passage of time since 2001, they are unable to locate the original agreement, but that they are satisfied that I legally owe the money, and do not accept my unreasonable requests I have made (which was for a copy of the signed application, together with cesation of chasing the account whilst in default).

 

They do not agree to cease reporting to Credit Ref agencies, as when I signed the agrement I gave them authority to do so.

 

They have agreed to stop phone calls, but will continue with chasing letters, and possibly a default if I don't bring the account into order.

 

Well then .... what do we think of that ... ??

 

Advice please on how to proceed next, without a signed agreement of any sort, not even a scanned copy, how do I stand ?

 

All advice and guidance v greatly received .....

[peter1234]

watching with interest

[cerberusalert]

They've admitted that they haven't an agreement, so keep that letter safe.

 

They & their puppet lawyers may well be satisfied that you legally owe the money, but with the absence of a legally enforceable agreement they would have a hard time convincing a judge to allow them to collect it.

[Mark Wilson]

I CCAd Mint in October and have received nothing in reply.

 

Being an ex employee of part of NWB, I can fully understand the behind te scenes mess that organisation is. Too much time spent chasing the Golden Goose bringing in turnover and profit through the front door whilst it appears the back door has been left well and truly open with said turnover and profits disappearing twice as fast!!!