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    • Hi All   After a bit of advice to see where I stand. Bought a car in Sept 2022 on pcp. Been told it had a big inspection and was good to go. Had many issues with it throughout the year including trims coming off the car and sunroof not closing.   While getting the sunroof repaired at month 12, in Sept 2023, the bodyshop guy said your cars been in a bad accident. Garage said it hasn't but offered to take the car back at half of what I paid for it as long as I buy a replacement from them before inspecting it (probably damage control) (car was £78k, said they'd offer £40k "trade in value" as if doing me a favour).   Ended up getting a forensic inspection done for £2400 in Dec 2023, confirmed car was in a bad smash (write off level but unrecorded on hpi) and potentially unsafe to drive - front end is slightly bent towards 1 side, what looks like a hairline crack on the chasis, overspray, bonner with patches of filler all over it, damaged rubbers etc   Raised complaint to finance company and few weeks ago to FOS... just wondering what people's experiences have been like going through the FOS, main thing that concerns me is that it was 12-13 months after I bought the car that I realised what caused these issues and raised the issue to the garage/ finance co but the damage/ misaligned panels are actually visible in the advert photos which I saved thankfully.    Dealership has had my car for 4 weeks to let a few bodyshops look at it (without giving me a courtesy car!!!) Not giving me any updates either because I went to the FOS about it and didnt want to speak to them over the phone anymore as opposed to emails. Note: hanging trim was reported within 3 months but due to part delays it didn't come until like July 2023, within 2 months the piece came off again, claimed under repairers warranty for another replacement 6 weeks ago and within 2 weeks this time the trim is coming off AGAIN (assuming it won't stay on due to the car being actually bent out of shape slightly)   Any idea if I have a good case or if there's anything else I can do?   Thanks
    • After the dealer failed to refund the money I checked the sort code and account number to reveal which bank received the money. It turned out to be HSBC BUSINESS DIRECT ONLINE. I called them and they confirmed the account name wasn’t Langley Cars though obviously didn’t tell me the correct account name. My bank contacted HSBC after I reported this to be fraud and they did in fact do a charge back but reversed the decision when the dealer sent a copy of the receipt he gave me for the deposit where it said it was non-refundable. I said that doesn’t mean anything when the car should never have been put on the forecourt when it was a death trap, and not fit for purpose.   The MOT revealed only a few of the faults which he agreed to correct in a week as I needed the car to travel out of London for work. He didn’t meet that deadline either because there were other more serious problems as identified by my independent car check. The same mechanic informed the dealer of these faults. The car wasn’t fixed by the agreed date due to the extensive repairs needed. So he was in breach of our contract on many levels.    I requested the bank find out the correct name of the account and they said the only information they had was like you said was the account number and sort code. I challenged the bank stating that whenever I create a new payee if the name doesn’t match the registered account name, it declines the creation of the proposed payee. So what happened in this instance?    I checked company’s house using the address from where the dealership is located and there was neither the two names, one was aa advertised in AUTOTRADER and the other on the courtyards entrance. I thought as I had made payment to the dealers ‘Trading as’ name that it would more than likely be enforceable than any other. Indeed the Bailiff was the one to call me and say that a variation of the warrant of control needed to be done before he could go and enforce the order. I cross-checked the address on Companies House website and got 3 different business names. Only one appears to be car related.  I am unsure as to what I can do within the variation of the warrant which the bailiff felt was appropriate. I will speak to him again Monday. 
    • Their PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. iit was not posted until 13 days after the event for one thing meaning it would be deemed to arrive on the 15th day instead of the 14th day. Now though we cannot expect that your PCN also missed the deadline there were still two other things wrong with the wording of the PCN that if your PCN has the same wording as your friends means that your PCN would not be compliant either. Their PCN does not specify the period of parking as required n the Act. It does show the ANPR arrival and departure dates but as those times include driving from the entrance to finding a parking place then later driving from the parking place to the exit cannot be described as a parking period. I suspect that the " Important Note" on your form will also not comply though I cannot be sure until we see your actual PCN.The reason I can't confirm that is because they sent out the PCN too late they have said that they are pursuing your friend on the assumption that they were the driver as well as the keeper-something that Courts do not accept. But it does look as if your PCN is not compliant which means that the keeper cannot be held liable to pay the charge. Only the driver can be made to pay it. If you have not appealed and revealed who was driving, there is no way that  Excel know who was driving.  So just to be sure please send them an SAR . On another topic do you have any proof that you did not stay there for so long just to really spoil Excel's day.
    • As your first PCN was a Notice to Driver which would have been followed by a Notice to keeper over a month later [even though it may only state Parking Charge notice] it is even more necessary to send PE an SAR. If either document fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act  2012 Schedule 4 then both you and your father are in the clear. So you do not need to worry about is any paperwork from unregulated debt collectors and fifth rate solicitors. The only thing to look out for is a Letter of Claim and all you have to do is respond with a snotty letter back to them .  
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Mint - what a load of rubbish they've sent !

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Hi all,


CCA'd Mint, and recd a reply today, couple of days after 12&2 timing.


This was originally an RBS Advanta card, which was changed by RBS to Mint, during their rebranding.


As you will see from their covering letter, they have said that they have provided generic credit agreement terms, from the time my card was taken out, interestingly it quotes 2002 in it, but my RBS was before this !! They also say that they don't have to provide an actual signed copy of my agreement. (which I know is true on a basic CCA request).


They have also included a copy letter, not dated, and I have no copy of this in my records either, which is discussing the issuing of replacement Mint card, also has T&Cs attached, which appear current, but I have no idea really as nothings dated!!


Interestingly the credit limit quoted in this letter, which has had to be be blanked out, is my current limit ... I haven't had a recent card, so really have no idea what going on here either...!


Finally, copy of most recent statement, which seems ok ... phew !!


Guys, have a look at the docs, any comments on what they've sent??


Also, is my next best move to SAR them? Will they have to give me a copy of my signed/executed agreeement on a SAR request, or will they try and wriggle out ... as I don't think they have anything, from looking at what they have sent me!


Thanks all ... !!!

Mint cover letter.pdf

Mint generic CCA provided.pdf

Mint supplementary letter and t&cs.pdf

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You can either send the dispute letter, or try and get a copy of a signed agreement using the following letter:


Dear Sirs


Account number


I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.


I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker


(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)


obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.


I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances


Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.


I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides


I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)




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Right you are .... thanks for the headsup on this, and also to Clemma who kindly posted the letter for me.


Will post off today to the little blighters ... and give an update as soon as I have one .....


Thanks again x

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I too have recvd reply back from Minr/RBS this week. I sent a SAR January rcvd 6 yrs worth of monthly payment slips!!, a copy of my application form and a copy of latest t & c`s. Sent dispute letter and recvd same again and letter stating they have complied with data requirements.


I wonder if Mr Brown et al know that a government owned bank is not complying with its own and previous governments legislation?

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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Well Spart, as far as I'm, aware an application isn't (by nature) a agreement ... so would be a good idea, if you need any help, to post up the application form, so the fab experts can have look and give you advice ...

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Have sent off above CPR today, so they have until 5 April to respond. Quick Q - can they still refuse to supply the signed agreement even after my CPR letter?


Just want to get a bit ahead of the game really.


Thanks guys .. !

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Have sent off above CPR today, so they have until 5 April to respond. Quick Q - can they still refuse to supply the signed agreement even after my CPR letter?


Just want to get a bit ahead of the game really.


Thanks guys .. !


The only reason they would refuse to supply it is if they did not have it ;)


If they had a copy, and they want you to pay, then they would send it to you.

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Thanks Clemma, thanks again for the letter ... big hug xox


I know I'm jumping the gun, but if that happened would I just send them the normal dispute letter, saying that it's in dispute as they have refused to comply with my CPR request? And then see where that takes me....


Thanks again xx

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Oh, ermmm, I would presume so. I haven't had to find out for anyone yet. It would probably just be a case of jiggling the letter to suit. Will look into it :D


SCRAP that - have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html


Your next letter would be:



CPR part 31.16


Dear Sirs


Account number


On XXXXX i wrote to your organisation requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. My request extended to the full agreement which bore my signature. Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker {ONLY USE IF RELEVENT AND INCLUDED IN THE FIRST LETTER}


I enclose a copy of the letter which was sent should for your information.


I note that to date i have not received a reply from your organisation nor have i received a copy of the agreement which i requested. in view of the circumstances i do not feel it unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed, it is not commercially sensitive nor is it a restricted document and should be easily accessible for an organisation such as yours. therefore i would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature, i require the complete document with all its parts .


the reasons why i require this information are clearly set out within my original letter dated XXXXX , but for clarity i require this document for the following reasons


1.I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed


2. Because i believe that the Payment protection insurance was not correctly incorporated within the agreement


3.because i believe that there was a commission paid in repect of this agreement which has not been disclosed to me and therefore is a breach of agency law


4. ...................







since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and gioven that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, i must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.


The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim i may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore i again ask that you provide me with the documents which i have previously requested . I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request i will be left no option but to make an application to XXXX County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested.


additionally i will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary


Please confirm by no later than 4pm on XXXXXXX that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing





second letter

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all,


Mint have until Monday to reply with the copy agreement, after I sent the original CPR request.


I had originally asked for a copy of the agreement, as I wanted to check how they applied interest, and why it wasn't reducing in line with the recent changes in BOE rates (which I'm stating as my basis for requesting agreements for all my ccards) - but all Mint provided was a generic agreement from the time.

Anyhoo, can I have an opinion if the above letter kindly posted by the lovely Clemma is the best next stage of proceedings?


Mint by the way have called a couple of times when I stopped payments after they sent the generic docs. However, I advised them that as the acct was in dispute, payments had been temporarily suspended until the matter was resolved.


They seemed to be ok with that, and I haven't had a call for a good 2 weeks - also no chasing letters received ..... yet !!!

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I have sent account in dispute letter, no response and then account in serious dispute (thought they might shake in their boots;)). Got usual standard reply pay us arrears or DCA involved, now im shaking in my boots.


Think putting in a complaint to everyone is the next step.

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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You go for it ..... !!! But, why waste a stamp .... they can't proceed down the (undisputed) court route and the will know this....


My plan will be to let them issue court proceedings (if thats how they play it) and get them struck out (think thats what you say, if they are the ones in the wrong ?).


Keep in touch on this my fellow Minter !!! :cool:

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sounds like a cheesy group from the 60`s, Abby, Sparta & The Minters!

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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  • 1 month later...

Well I wrote again to Mint to say that I hadn't recd a reply to my CPR31 letter.

They replied today, they said that it had been referred to their legal department, who are satisfied that they application I signed, which later formed the agreement,, is fully compliant with section 61 of the CCA, and as such the debt is recoverable.


They have gone on to say that due to the passage of time since 2001, they are unable to locate the original agreement, but that they are satisfied that I legally owe the money, and do not accept my unreasonable requests I have made (which was for a copy of the signed application, together with cesation of chasing the account whilst in default).:eek:


They do not agree to cease reporting to Credit Ref agencies, as when I signed the agrement I gave them authority to do so.


They have agreed to stop phone calls, but will continue with chasing letters, and possibly a default if I don't bring the account into order.


Well then .... what do we think of that ... ??


Advice please on how to proceed next, without a signed agreement of any sort, not even a scanned copy, how do I stand ?


All advice and guidance v greatly received .....:)

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They've admitted that they haven't an agreement, so keep that letter safe.


They & their puppet lawyers may well be satisfied that you legally owe the money, but with the absence of a legally enforceable agreement they would have a hard time convincing a judge to allow them to collect it. ;)

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I CCAd Mint in October and have received nothing in reply.


Being an ex employee of part of NWB, I can fully understand the behind te scenes mess that organisation is. Too much time spent chasing the Golden Goose bringing in turnover and profit through the front door whilst it appears the back door has been left well and truly open with said turnover and profits disappearing twice as fast!!!

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