can you park where there is no dropped kerb???

[vince12123]

can you park where there is no dropped kerb. aka vehicle crossover?

Here it is, on a very quiet residential street a car was parked near a possible driveway but was given a 'obstructing driveway' ticket pcn. It was a very narrow break in the wall just wide enough for a car, narrower than your average drive access but wider than a pedestrian access. However there was no dropped kerb or vehicle parked on the hard standing of the property. Also no road markings or parking restrictions apply on the road in question.

Can you park over a driveway that has no dropped kerb? The police have the opinion that a dropped kerb makes no difference. does it?

There is a splattering of dropped kerb rules on the web but nothing solid. There is certainly nothing anywhere defining residential access and the relevance of a dropped kerb.

help please.

[green_and_mean]

There is no such thing as an 'obstructing driveway' p c n can you scan ticket and maybe a photo of the location.

[vince12123]

FixedPenaltyNotice, offence code 085 'causing an obstruction to a driveway'. i will try and send you a photo but can you explain what you think given what i have written, much appreciated. Any clarification there being no dropped down kerb to driveway etc, i'm very interested in your opinion.

[green_and_mean]

You have not been given a P C N as you first stated which is a Council issued notice, you have been given a police issued fixed penalty notice. It is an offence to obstruct vehicular access to a property without good reason so the Police can issue a notice to you.

[crem]

It is an offence to obstruct vehicular access to a property without good reason so the Police can issue a notice to you.

 

If there is no dropped kerb, how can it qualify as "vehicular access"?

[green_and_mean]

If there is no dropped kerb, how can it qualify as "vehicular access"?

 

Until we see a photo....who knows?

[vince12123]

if no dropped kerb where can you measure the obstruction from/ look i don't wanna dive into diversions i need people to provide legal fact etc does an vehicular access require a dropped down kerb or not? what is the relevance or does it matter.

[vince12123]

YES THANK YOU, THO THE POINT BEING IS THERE IS NO DROPPED KERB.

THERE IS ALSO NO VEHICLE ON WHAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED THE DRIVE. OPINIONS PLEASE. i am attempting to send a photo if i can but there is a normal kerb the length of the street minus the dropped kerbs that are used to access ' normal' residential driveways, but in the case i speak about there is no dropped (down) kerb at all...so is it an offence to park over a unsuspecting drive way that has no dropped kerb and get a parking ticket??? sorry all but i don't want us all to be distracted from the major.

[green_and_mean]

what about the rest of the photo cropping it just to show the kerb is a bit pointless?

[vince12123]

what do you mean pointless what you want? You can see at the top of the pic that there is a gap in the wall, the drive access, you can also see there is no dropped kerb. the offending car is nowhere to be seen so how can it be obstructing the so called driveway etc the question is can you park here?

[vince12123]

to add ....

can you park where there is no dropped kerb??? see the point now?

[green_and_mean]

what do you mean pointless what you want?

 

A photo of the location or street with a shot of the area beyond the paving would have been nice. Showing a few metres of paving doesn't really help much. Don't forget this is not a Council ticket for parking adjacent to a drop kerb its a police ticket for obstruction.

[vince12123]

i realise this but end of the day the question is... as there is no dropped kerb is it a vehicle access?

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Vince.

First of all, please understand that the other users are trying to help you. You have the benefit of being there and seeing the location, first-hand.

The users who are trying to help you have not.

Although it is a very fine photgraph showing an undropped kerb, It doesn't show the surroundings, which could verywell be key to answering your question.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[vince12123]

there is no need for a wider pic. i seek clarification of the the relevance of a dropped kerb that's all... what is the point of such a kerb and what and how an residential vehicle access is defined. yes the ticket was issued by the police etc but this is the original photo so you can see no car and no dropped kerb so in two counts there is no offence but what is the point of such a kerb and what and how an vehicle residential is defined?

[green_and_mean]

i realise this but end of the day the question is... as there is no dropped kerb is it a vehicle access?

 

You do not need a drop kerb to access your property the drop kerb is to prevent damage to the footway as long as you have a vehicular right of way over the footway you can drive into your property.

[crem]

It would be helpful to see a wider angle shot to show the kerb/access through wall in a better context.

 

I was under the impression that even if the resident did park their car through that gap they may well be committing an offence themselves as I didn't think you were allowed to drive across a footpath that hadn't been sanctioned as a "vehicular access". To have this approved as a driveway would have been coupled with the kerb been dropped I would have thought.

[vince12123]

crem, my thoughts too. by reporting to the police that their driveway is being blocked they have incriminated themselves by admitting they drive over the kerb as pictured. the police did not see it this way or paid no attention to this and issued a ticket. Crem, in very simple terms is it a driveway? is it an access? where can i find the definitive explanation of a dropped kerb, drive access etc. i have been going around in circles not just here but legally and knowone knowhere can be factual with the application of a dropped kerb

[crem]

Maybe an enquiry to your local council may help to seek their clarification of what they would accept as vehicular access? You maybe could even dress this up as an enquiry by yourself to create such a driveway on your front garden. If they insist that if you want a drive in your front garden they will have to install a dropped kerb (which no doubt would be charged back to yourself), then that would be useful defence. If they say, "yes you can, just get on with it", then that would leave you on a sticky wicket.

 

The only other way is to refuse the FPN and allow it to go to magistrates court. The risk here though is that if you lose, it will cost you a lot more I believe.

[vince12123]

thank you all and all the best cheers crem... i will leave it here

[vince12123]

one last thing mr green..........

if you don't know than say so, but if you do know then explain the relevance and legal appplication

1. a dropped kerb is required for access to all residential driveways (explain)

2. does the residency have a legal right of way? ( explain)

3. approach the council (explain)

4. fully explain what you know and your expertise of such matters before requesting more information

finally thanks mr green you have been helpful and its all been a joy

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Without actually seeing your picture in my experience: I recently had to have the kerb outside my house dropped to access hard standing in my garden. The City Services Department of our City Council wrote to me saying:

 

Illegal Vehicular Crossing -Highway Act 1980

The Highways act clearly states "if a person knowingly uses a footway or verge as a crossing in contravention of any condition imposed, or knowingly permits it to be used, he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine"

 

It cost me £700.00 to have the kerb dropped, and I had to get the Highways approval once it had been done!

 

Wils

[lamma]

don't most councils insist on a dropped kerb to prevent pavement damage. And you have to pay to get one.

[Number6]

How about not parking across a driveway in the first place? Why do people wilfully park across residents access and then whinge when they get done for it?

 

Just have a little more consideration and the problem wouldn't have occurred in the first place!

[green_and_mean]

don't most councils insist on a dropped kerb to prevent pavement damage. And you have to pay to get one.

 

The law (Highways act 1980) says...

 

Where the occupier of any premises adjoining or having access to a Highway maintainable at the public expense habitually takes or permits to be taken a mechanically propelled vehicle across a kerbed Footway or a verge in the Highway to or from those premises, the Highway authority for the Highway may, subject to subsection (2) below, serve a notice on the owner and the occupier of the premises –

 

(a) stating that they propose to execute such works for the construction of a vehicle crossing over the Footway or verge as may be specified in the notice; or

 

(b) Imposing such reasonable conditions on the use of the Footway or verge as a crossing as may be so specified.

 

 

The law gives the highway authority the power to insist that a drop kerb is put in, to prohibit access or to impose conditions (eg the type of vehicle which can access the property or non commercial use etc). All this is on the primary condition the highway is maintained at public expense. It is therefore possible to have been granted permission to park in your front garden for example with Council permission without a drop kerb. Councils do generally insist you get a drop kerb as it saves them money in repairs in the long term. There is also the use of the word 'habitually' which means that to do so occasionally is technically ok. It would therefore follow that if on a 'rare occasion' you parked in your house and got blocked in the person parking is in effect offending whilst you are not.