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    • @WelshMotorist the legal power comes from Traffic Management Orders made by the local council under ss1,6 or 9 of the Road Traffic Act Management Act 1984. Each council drafts its own TMO so only your council can tell you the precise wording that applies in your local area, what their specific TMO says. But I'd expect it to follow the pattern of the TMOs I've seen online from a range of councils, all of which say it's only entering the zone that is an offence. Remaining parked in it and leaving it are permitted. There's one at the top of my road and it's enforced by ANPR cameras that only film ingoing vehicles.   One pain in the backside with them is that delivery vans cannot enter to deliver your online shopping that so many of us rely on at the moment. My local council helpfully suggests "...You should arrange for your item to be delivered outside of the restriction times..." despite the obvious impossibility in practice of making arrangements like that (good luck  with telling Amazon what time they can deliver to you!).
    • i think your council needs to revise their websites wording (if that Is what it does says?) IMHO, and simply remove the OR DRIVE. that's not needed as it's obvious! .....that would make it clear that people could exit .
    • Apologies for not replying, dx100uk, I read your first response too quickly and thought it was a statement.   I think it should be as Ethel Street said, you can leave the zone without being fined, just can't enter back into it. It matched what my neighbour told me.   I have sent a question over to our Council so I expect to have a more concrete answer sometime in the future and I will update this thread in case anyone else will have the same query.
    • My local authority has similar closures and their website says this. So your car can be parked in the zone and you can leave the zone. But if you drive into it you get a PCN.   What happens if my vehicle is parked on a school street, during the restricted times without a school street permit? You will be able to leave without a penalty charge notice being issued.   However, if you then return during the restricted hours, a penalty charge notice will automatically be issued.    Here's another, which seems clear you can remain parked in it.   1. Southwark Council hereby GIVES NOTICE that on 5 November 2020 it has made the above experimental orders under sections 9 and 10 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 19841 .   2. The effects of the experimental orders are to introduce the timed ‘pedestrian and cycle zones’ listed below (physically enforced with traffic signs and the installation of temporary barriers) in which motor vehicles will be prohibited from entering during the listed hours of operation (note: ‘during term time’ implies Monday – Friday, except public holidays, during the school term as set by that school), except for vehicles requiring access to premises within or only accessible from within each pedestrian and cycle zone. Any vehicle that is already within a pedestrian and cycle zone prior to its commencement of operation will be permitted to leave, in the vicinity of the following schools: -
  • Our picks

    • Ebay Packlink and Hermes - destroyed item as it was "damaged". https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430396-ebay-packlink-and-hermes-destroyed-item-as-it-was-damaged/&do=findComment&comment=5087347
      • 32 replies
    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
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Big Pants v. First Direct. **WON**

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Signed up and sent my DPA request letter a few weeks ago, but didn't want to start a thread until I found out how much I was owed. Oh that I could go back 25 years and sue NatWest for my student years. I graduated (in '89) £10k overdrawn - of which I reckon more than half was charges & interest :mad:


Anyway, it transpires that over the last 6 years First Direct unlawfully charged £1668.50 to my sole cheque account, and £999 (which would be amusing if it wasn't so annoying) to our joint account. Both these sums are net of any interest - though if it goes to court (please God) there's an additional £766 at the 8% statutory rate.


But I have a question. I was always overdrawn. Each of these charges therefore cost me additional interest, to which I believe I am entitled as I can prove the fact (given that I was always overdrawn :eek: ).


How please, should I go about claiming that interest by quoting it in my prelim letter? I'd really appreciate a steer.


I also intend to claim for both accounts in the one letter, which seems to be common practice in the few cases where more than one account is the subject. Again, does anyone know any different? Please?


I can't thank CAG enough for the uplift this has given us - I like to think I can manage my money now, but it took me years to learn. The punitive effects of illegal policies like these only exacerbated the cost and misery for me. Nice to think we should get some back.


And I'll happily send 5%. God knows we could use every penny, with two kids 'n'all, but helping fund others to get what's theirs is a reet righteous result.

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FiveLaws very kindly pointed me back in the direction of the spreadsheets created by the wonderful Vampiress :p


Don't know how I missed what I was looking for first time around, but was happily able to calculate an additional £465 in interest charges that I had to pay as a result of the illegal fees being levied against my accounts.


Hence, this letter goes in the post today. Do let me know if you spot any issues.


moz-screenshot.jpgThe Big Pants Monkey House


First Direct

40 Wakefield Road


LS98 1FD



29th July 2006



Request for repayment of charges


Dear Sir/Madam,


ACCOUNT NUMBERS: 12345678 and 87654321



My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my accounts over the last six years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.


Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my accounts. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.


I am frankly flabbergasted that you have operated my account in this way, as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.


What I require

I calculate that you have taken £1668.50 plus £396.93 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken from my account 12345678: Total £2065.40 .


Additionally I calculate that you have taken £999.00 plus £68.81 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken from my account 87654321: Total £1067.81


In total I calculate that you have taken £3133.21 unlawfully from my accounts over the last six years alone, which I would request you return to me.

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter


My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.


I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.


If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.


After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.


Yours faithfully


He of the Big Pants


It's cross yer fingers and wait time now...

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  • 3 weeks later...

No response barring the standard "here's a leaflet" and "we'll get back to you within 10 days" (which they didn't), so LBA sent today. With the closing paragraph "First Direct, I'm surprised and disappointed. Shame on you."


Hoping to reach closure on this around the end of the month. Fingers crossed.

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So. A letter yesterday from John Ruane. "Confident of their position... blah blah...

...However, mindful of management time & irrecoverable legal costs (yeah, they are irrecoverable when you lose, aren't they?)... Prepared to make a payment of £2112 in full & final...etc" This against a claim of £3133.21. Dream on, John.


So far, so exactly as laid out in these wonderful forums. I have been invited to escalate my concerns, so will be dropping Robert Kernaghan a note shortly :rolleyes:


Can't wait to file the MoneyClaim. The 8% interest would be extremely handy.

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  • 5 weeks later...


Should I now be concerned?


FD wrote to me a while back offering £2112 in "full and final" against my claim of £3133.21 + interest.


Sent back a "thanks but no thanks" response, reminding them of my timetable for action, which crossed in the post with another offer from them of the same amount, which stated that this would be their final communication on the matter.


Filed Moneyclaim on September 5th, and received notice from the court that DG Solicitors intend to defend the action (dated 13th September).


Can't find too many cases similar to mine, and I'd be really grateful for any guidance or reassurance others might be able to offer. I'm beginnning to wonder if I fouled up somewhere, though I don't believe I have...


Can anyone lay my fears to rest?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thanks for the support. Much appreciated.


So you think they'll still make an improved offer before it gets to court?


Have they settled yet, just interested to see hwo it all went.

Haven't seen too many posts of settled claims recently?

I love the smell of banks coughing up refunds early in the morning

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It all happened yesterday, but I've been too busy (and too depressed at the overall state of things) to post.


Yep. All is settled - so I must email the mods and also send my 5% with grateful thanks!


£3310.99 refunded in illegally taken charges (after much arseing about and an unfeasible delay in crediting my account). Strangely there was no comment from the solicitors on my suggestion that we discuss confidentiality as a separate commercial agreement at £5000.


One in yer eye for the banks' dodgy behaviour - despite their professed confidence if it did go to court.


So stick with it everyone. You can do it.

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Just to point out the charges are unlawfully taken, not illegally, there is a big difference

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

If you win, donate to this site

Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.


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Just to point out the charges are unlawfully taken, not illegally, there is a big difference


My apologies. Recognise the difference in legal semantics - poor choice of words on my part.



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Big pants, might I know you from another forum of the wedding kind?

HSBC - Received offer for 3621, accepted confidentiality crossed out. Money in bank 10/10/06!


Barclaycard - 180.00 LBA sent 5/10/2006

72.00 offered, rejected.


MBNA - S.A.R sent 13/9/2006 :idea:


Mint - 244.00 prelim sent 30/9/2006


Dorothy Perkins and GE money - S.A.R sent 30/9/2006


Simpley BE - S.A.R sent 30/9/2006


What I say is of my own opinion. Seek professional legal advice if need be.


If I have helped, tip the scales! Thank you x :)

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Waaaah! Sorry! I got you confused with a big pants that was on a wedding forum at the same time as me when I was getting married!




If I wasn't married, I might proposition you ;)

HSBC - Received offer for 3621, accepted confidentiality crossed out. Money in bank 10/10/06!


Barclaycard - 180.00 LBA sent 5/10/2006

72.00 offered, rejected.


MBNA - S.A.R sent 13/9/2006 :idea:


Mint - 244.00 prelim sent 30/9/2006


Dorothy Perkins and GE money - S.A.R sent 30/9/2006


Simpley BE - S.A.R sent 30/9/2006


What I say is of my own opinion. Seek professional legal advice if need be.


If I have helped, tip the scales! Thank you x :)

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