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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Ex parte injunction against log book loans - and you can do it too


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whoops - only meant to how section 103 - sorry folks

 

oh well at least we don't have to keep looking up the act as and when we need to refer to various sections.....we can just come here : )

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Luc1

 

Can I take this back to your original point raised?

 

I will anyway : )

 

If your solicitor is advising a 50/50 chance, that does not sound good at all - your solicitor needs to be sure of a 51+ chance of winning before taking you into such a situation....

 

This suggests you need to strenghten your case.....

 

If I understand it correctly - You bought a car without as far as you were aware to be without finance attached - you say you have received evidence or have evidence of this from the lender too. (Have i interpreted this correctly?)

 

We have seen this situation a few times appear on the forum

103.—(l) If an individual (the " customer ") serves, on any person (the " trader") a

notice—

(a) stating that—

(i)

the customer was the debtor or hirer under a regulated agreement

described in the notice, and the trader was the creditor or owner under the

agreement, and

(ii)

the customer has discharged his indebtedness to the trader under the

agreement, and

(iii)

the agreement has ceased to have any operation; and

(b) requiring the trader to give the customer a notice. signed by or on behalf of the

trader, confirming that those statements are correct,

the trader shall, within the prescribed period after receiving the notice? either comply

with it or serve on the customer a counter notice stating that, as the case may be, he

disputes the correctness of the notice or asserts that the customer is not indebted to

him under the agreement.

(2)

Where the trader disputes the correctness of the notice he shall give particulars

of the way in which he alleges it to be wrong.

quote]

 

 

Hi Applecart,

I've got another solicitor now - one which a friend of mine recommended.

The previous one who I got from contactlaw.co.uk wasn’t very good - she thought it was basically my word against LBL.

Basically LBL are stating that on the telephone conversation I had with them that they (LBL) will be keeping a interest in the vehicle for 2 months, even though it was settled and cleared in there account. Payment was 21/3/09, contested on the 8/5/09. I'm stating that they never said that to me, if this was the case then I would not of brought the vehicle.

As we know LBL hate being screwed over - what's happened with them & there client is nothing to do with me, but as they cannot find there client, they come after the owner of the vehicle… without any notification - a knock on the door at 6:45am! I'm just waffling now… stated this so many times.. Sorry for repeating…

Anyway, can they hold interest in the vehicle for 2 months? Anyway why 2 months?

Also, Ive got the original BoS in front of me…it says the BoS is between Danesmead Investments Ltd (Lender) V Miss A (Borrower). So Danesmead Investments are trading as Log Book Loans.. Shouldn’t it be me v LBL. Or should it be Danesmead? Or is this totally irrelevant….?

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Hi Luc1

 

I can only imagine them holding an interest in the vehicle for 2 months as part of some inflated 'internal office' policy, but it would seem they have a lot of 'policies' that can not be found anywhere in statute law - in my mind their policies should reflect the law considering they offer a regulated service - dont you think?

 

The situation as I understand it - is as you say - the agreement was between XXX & XXX not XXX & You.

 

You bought the car from XXX and you were advised that there was no interest from the trader at the time you bought the car.

 

I don't think you should bog yourself down with the issues that the trader had or has with its previous client. At the end of the day, you are the new owner of the vehicle, you bought the car and was advised all was ok.

 

you checked and the finance balance was cleared in March.

 

so long as you bought the car after March, then I don't see that you should get into a battle with the trader over what is essentially their problem - they are of course trying to make it your problem - but, it really isn't.

 

Now, because they have or are threatening to take the car - you should take them to court - because essentially they are trying to make you responsible for someone else's debt..... totally ridiculous and absurd!!

 

You only need show that the finance cleared before you bought the car and your receipt of purchase - end of!!

 

Keep it simple - put your claim in - and let the Judge deal with them.

 

Should cost no more than £30 to lodge a general claim against them and let the ball roll - they would have a lot to prove and I suspect they will not be able to prove that You personally owe them anything, or that you are liable for another person taking them to court and winning their money back. (am I right, the previous owner took them to court and got their money back fair and square?? - you then buy the car fair and square, and they want the car off you???)

 

If it's Danesmead Investments who are trying to take the car - then sue them if it is Log Book then sue them - whoever is trying to take a possession that is rightfully yours should be sued in a court of law!!

 

Make No mistake, You have the right by virtue of the Human Rights Act at Article 8 to peaceful enjoyment of your property.

 

My thoughts are that Section 103 can help in that you can make reference to it in your claim - advising the judge that you were led to believe protocol had been followed in getting confirmation that the debt was cleared in March.

 

Hope this helps : )

 

If you need me to dig deeper, let me know : )

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Luc1

 

I can only imagine them holding an interest in the vehicle for 2 months as part of some inflated 'internal office' policy, but it would seem they have a lot of 'policies' that can not be found anywhere in statute law - in my mind their policies should reflect the law considering they offer a regulated service - dont you think?

 

The situation as I understand it - is as you say - the agreement was between XXX & XXX not XXX & You.

 

You bought the car from XXX and you were advised that there was no interest from the trader at the time you bought the car.

 

I don't think you should bog yourself down with the issues that the trader had or has with its previous client. At the end of the day, you are the new owner of the vehicle, you bought the car and was advised all was ok.

 

you checked and the finance balance was cleared in March.

 

so long as you bought the car after March, then I don't see that you should get into a battle with the trader over what is essentially their problem - they are of course trying to make it your problem - but, it really isn't.

 

Now, because they have or are threatening to take the car - you should take them to court - because essentially they are trying to make you responsible for someone else's debt..... totally ridiculous and absurd!!

 

You only need show that the finance cleared before you bought the car and your receipt of purchase - end of!!

 

Keep it simple - put your claim in - and let the Judge deal with them.

 

Should cost no more than £30 to lodge a general claim against them and let the ball roll - they would have a lot to prove and I suspect they will not be able to prove that You personally owe them anything, or that you are liable for another person taking them to court and winning their money back. (am I right, the previous owner took them to court and got their money back fair and square?? - you then buy the car fair and square, and they want the car off you???)

 

If it's Danesmead Investments who are trying to take the car - then sue them if it is Log Book then sue them - whoever is trying to take a possession that is rightfully yours should be sued in a court of law!!

 

Make No mistake, You have the right by virtue of the Human Rights Act at Article 8 to peaceful enjoyment of your property.

 

My thoughts are that Section 103 can help in that you can make reference to it in your claim - advising the judge that you were led to believe protocol had been followed in getting confirmation that the debt was cleared in March.

 

Hope this helps : )

 

If you need me to dig deeper, let me know : )

 

 

Totally agree with your points Applecart.

 

I was told from LBL that the loan was settled… I told them that I will be buying the car. Not once did I hear them say that the car still belongs to them, not once did they advise me not to buy the car. Not once did they say to me that they will be keeping a interest in the car…. If they said any of these, then I would not of brought the car.

 

Also, just to let you know I brought the car at a reasonable price, got this confirmed by Parkers, so its not like I was thinking I got the car on the cheap or a bargain… and thinking it was worth the risk. I could of brought the same vehicle for the same price, pretty much anywhere.

 

Regarding the previous owners boyfriend who made the payment & contested this. Afraid this never went to court, LBL said that the money from the transaction left there account and was put straight in to the boyfriends account. No Questions asked?!

 

You would think they would record the calls wouldn’t you? If they did… then this matter could be resolved a lot easier.

 

Again, appreciate your help on this matter, you have been a great help so far.

 

Luc1

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Hi Luc1

 

Must be another one of their internal policies not to record calls, hey???

 

Never went to court?.... I see...., this must be why they feel they have the right to persecute anyone who buys the car.

 

Like I say; the balls in your court - I do now appreciate the reason why the orignal solicitor felt you had a 50/50 chance on the 'their word against yours' issue....... I still think he just didn't dig deep enough though.

 

Most Companies keep a 'audit trail' - basically this means that when a client calls in, they make a note on the system of the call and note the comments made- why not find out if the trader has such a system and see if they are willing to give you a copy, they should be able to print it off and send it to you - if they are unwilling to do this (subject to them having such an audit trail that is) then you may have to request a transcript via the courts. (if that makes sense?).

 

In a court, I can imagine they will want to submit the account information to assist their case (to prove the money went in - then was sent back out again) this would be good for you, for obvious reasons - if you get my point?

 

So, again - I can't see a problem with you taking the matter forward to it's beneficial conclusion for you.

 

apple : )

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Applecart,

 

Yes they have kept a not on the system, which I have a copy off.

 

'It says that 2 people in a space of a minute rang to ask if we still had any interest in the car, we stated that we still have interest.'

 

This is all they have a log off......

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Hi LucI

 

That's in direct contradiction to what you were originally told - surprise, surprise.........

 

Why not see if you can get a copy of all call logs during the month of January - March??

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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I have got all call logs which LBL noted. It says on the 21/3/09:

Loan settled by Boyfriend over the phone, leave for 2 months if no fall out close loan.

 

Again why 2 months?? I really dont understand? Is 2 months common practice? Or is them editing the notes to cover their backs? I mean 7wks later the loan is contested! Only 1 wk shy of the 2 months.

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hi luc1

 

It does seem dubious - considering audit trails are bespoke IT software where it may be that the trader has a facility to 'amend' notes to suit....

 

But Hey...... I can't see them saying 'we rely on the notes on our call log that say blah blah blah' - everyone knows that call logs do not record a conversation - and are 'notes' based on the interpretation of the 'writer' of what was said in the conversation.... who's to say the notes truly reflect what was actually said?

 

The note seems 'contrived' - it clearly states 'loan cleared by boyfriend' - so how did he clear it?.... with invisible money?... that then caused them to pre-empt and insert a 2 month 'fall out'.... weird...positively weird!!!!

 

I shouldn't bog yourself down with their call logs...

 

By the way.... Ask your solicitor to include in your claim a breach under Article 8 of the Human Rights Act as well - this Article says you are entitled to peaceful enjyment of your property (they are clearly looking to ensure you don't get this civil right)

 

Hope this helps

 

apple : )

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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  • 1 year later...

I've just been directed to this very useful thread.

 

I realise it's not been posted on for a while, but if anyone has had successful POCs against LBL it would be enormously helpful to a lot of people if they could be posted. I know some have mentioned it's best not to post them, but if they've been successful in the past LBL know all about them anyway.

 

Thread now stickied.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Anyone had same kind of thing with mobile money? My bill of sale was signed by the person who gave me the cash, got into financial difficulty and they are threatening to take the car, which since my mums sad passing I use to check on my father do I need my car, also tried to offer lower payments so they are getting something, but they arn't interested, I really need help Iam a single mum to three and unemployed but trying my darned to get work!!!!

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  • 11 months later...
  • 1 year later...

Hi everyone, joining this thread as I am hoping to use some of the valuable advice offered in here.

 

@ applecart : Please, I am gonna need quite a bit of advice from you as soon as I am able to PM you. If you can PM me, please, kindly do. Thanks.

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Cagicorn, please start your own thread with your problem. This site works by people sharing their experience and knowledge for the benefit of everyone, and advice by pm is discouraged, for the protection of all involved.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Cagicorn, please start your own thread with your problem. This site works by people sharing their experience and knowledge for the benefit of everyone, and advice by pm is discouraged, for the protection of all involved.

 

Thanks, caro.

 

Will start my thread in due course. I need to take some steps on Monday before I share details ......

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  • 5 months later...

Hi Guys.

 

Im in a similar situation and really need to buy time.

 

Can I ask.. what If i simply keep the car hidden? Can I keep it hidden for as long as needed to fix this?

 

Could they take any of my other things besides the car and also will they be able to call the police and say I "Stole" it as they have the logbook?

 

What about driving the car abroad to hide permanently?

 

Thanks

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