DCA heavy-handed over increase of repayments - advice needed, pl.

[FlyboyAgain]

Ok, I'm back with an update. On 24 March, my wife and I sent - recorded - 6 DCA letters to Blair, Oliver & Scott and 1 to Hillesden Securities. We are now at day 14 since I sent them and BO&S have not supplied any details; they have only sent a letter asking for one of the accounts to now be reviewed!! Advice, please, guys.

 

The Hillesden reply is interesting. It seems that this account (old RBS debt) has been passed about a bit and they state that their client - CitiFinancial Europe, PLC - is 'unable to provide a copy of the documents requested under the CCA 1974.'

 

They go, further, to state that 'all enforcement proceedings ion the account have been stopped.' and as such are unable to force the agreement. They are still advising me to make repayments. I understand I still have a debt to pay, but please provide advice. Should I halt payments or carry on? And what bother will I get into if I halt them?

 

But it's the BO&S ones that have amazed me: nothing, other than one request to review one account. Co-incidenatlly, the phone started rining the very night after their letter landed on the mat!

[FlyboyAgain]

Amyone?? Rory, or Postggj??

[madasamuppet]

If citi say they cannot enforce the agreement then in effect you are no longer required to pay them any money as they cannot prove that you owe it. Do not pay them anything they cannot take any legal action against you just write and ask for payment but without proof they cannot get you to pay. Keep their letter in a safe place. If you wanted to get it off your back you are in a better position than them and could offer a full and final settlement at a fraction of the amount owed.

 

As for the other ones if its been 12 working days since they signed and received your request you could follow up with the "dispute letter" (template on here somewhere) telling them basically that until they provide evidence of your liability they are getting no further money from you and they cannot take enforcement action or demand payments from you until they provide this.

 

Hope this helps, somebody else prob be along later and may be able to offer some more advice.

[FlyboyAgain]

Thanks, Muppet. Anyone else got anything to add?

[IdaInFife]

as maam has said the citi one - you can lawfully withold payments until they provide a valid cc it depends on what you want to achieve , if at this stage your not bothered about your credit file etc or you can offer then a massivley reduced full and final settlement as long as they rmark you cf as settled in full or remove any details, this can be done now or later.

 

If you receive anything from BOS other than cca ie asking for payment you can send:

 

Account In Dispute

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

If it's after 12 working days you can also lawfully withold payment from them as well.

 

Ida x

[FlyboyAgain]

I'd like to offer them pennies, after what they and their 'clients' put my wife and I through! They have ruined our CFs, anyway, by having them passed to DCAs and because we've been paying reduced amounts.

 

I'm inclined to withhold payments to them as of today's date, since we are now on day 15, and all I've had from BO&S is a request for one of the accounts repayments to be reviewed.

 

What, I mean, can I reasonably offer them to pay these accounts off and have my CF updated?

 

I'll bang your scales, metaphorically, Ida!!!

[IdaInFife]

Yes,

 

you can send the following:

 

Account Number: xxxxxxxx

Dear Eejits

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx, in which you confirm that there is no executed credit agreement relating to the above referenced account and confirming that all collection activity will cease.

While admitting no liability for the account and the sum claimed as owing, I am willing to offer the sum of £xx as an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account.

This offer is made on the clear understanding that neither you nor any associate company will take any further action to attempt to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that any and all liability on our behalf will be fully discharged on receipt of the above stated monies.

This offer is made on the condition that of all adverse entries regarding this account are removed from our credit files with the credit reference agencies.

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written confirmation of your agreement of this offer and the subsequent terms of the offer. Please also identify your prefered method of payment and the details of making said payment.

Please note this offer will expire on (date - give them a couple of weeks) if no letter of unconditional acceptance is forthcoming and may not be repeated. This offer is not open to negotiation.

We look forward to receiving your reply.

 

 

as nicked from Rory

 

ida x

[FlyboyAgain]

I'd like to make them sweat, first, before I offer them anything !!!

 

I'll send them the letter re their 'default' on failure to supply the true copy and take it, slowly, from there.

 

I must re-iterate that I acknowledge my debts but, after the threats, the demands, the phone ringing every evening and all week-end, I am glad to put one or two across their bows. I've alreday got my bank charges and CC charges back and.hopefully, within the year, wrap all this s*** up, too!

 

Here's a thing: BO&S, if they don't reply and have cashed my £1 PO.... isn't that theft??:-?

[FlyboyAgain]

Bump for this.

[FlyboyAgain]

Update.

 

Four days after the time limit expired, I have today received - from the original creditor, Halifax - an unsigned copy of the agreement for three of our total seven accounts. I stress unsigned copy; aren't they supposed to supply the signed originals, or photocopies of them??

 

Also, the bank is now asking for full payment of all arrears!

 

What's going on, here?

[davey77]

There is no statutory requirement for them to supply the original agreement, only a true copy in which they are allowed to omit certain details. Any request under the CCA 77-79 is for a true copy.. hence the difficulty. They can only enforce a debt with the original in Court (generally) so i would take a look at this method, if you haven't already, and consider going down that route:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[FlyboyAgain]

 

here is a copy of their covering letter, above.

[FlyboyAgain]

There is no statutory requirement for them to supply the original agreement, only a true copy in which they are allowed to omit certain details. Any request under the CCA 77-79 is for a true copy.. hence the difficulty. They can only enforce a debt with the original in Court (generally) so i would take a look at this method, if you haven't already, and consider going down that route:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

 

So, you're saying they can omit our signatures, and that document they supplied can still be valid? Sure, it's not a 'true copy' if there are no signators on it?

 

I have seen that thread; will go back to it.

[FlyboyAgain]

Hold on.... their true copy is not date and could have been typed up by them last week!

[davey77]

So, you're saying they can omit our signatures, and that document they supplied can still be valid? Sure, it's not a 'true copy' if there are no signators on it?

 

I have seen that thread; will go back to it.

 

Your attachment is a bit tiny to read.

 

Yes, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) at Regulation 3 allows the Signature box and signature to be omitted in a copy document (thereby complying with a section 78 request).

 

They don't have to give you the original (which they would need to rely on in Court) if they don't want to (or don't have it but are not admitting to that.)

[davey77]

what date is this agreement from?

[davey77]

I'd be inclined to reply something along the lines of:

 

thank you for your letter.. you may or may not have complied with section 78 of the CCA1974...I respectfully request that you provide a copy of the original agreement signed by myself that you hold on file and while I accept that you can omit the signature box for the purposes of compliance with my request, you will be aware that any challenge to the agreement in court would require the signed copy of the original agreement containing the Prescribed Terms.

If you still reject this, please provide clarification on the status of the Original Credit Agreement and confirm either that you hold the original signed agreement on file or a copy of it on microfiche or that you no longer hold the file...

 

Give them 14 days. Either that, or go straight into the CPR method to try and see what they actually have.

[donners21]

what you need to do is listen for the MAY or POSSIBLY in what they are saying and then challenge them and ask if they are threatening you, they will back down.

Ask them if they ARE goimg to take you to court as they will say possibly as it is illegal for them to threten you on the phone!!

 

You pay what you can and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it!!!

[donners21]

but in my opinion do everything in writing and make sure you get true copies of your CCA's from all your debts.

[donners21]

Just ignore me, I am new and flicked past all the new posts by accident.

 

I am soooo STUPID, Sorry

[FlyboyAgain]

The debts are quite old, over five years.

 

On my second attempt at getting the agreement, the have today, on one account sent a copy of the application form dated 16 February, 2000, and it looks original, and thsi time with my signature.

 

They now want the full balance by 5 May.

 

Advice, please.

[FlyboyAgain]

what date is this agreement from?

 

Just been supplied with a siogned Priority Application form from 16 Feb 2000.

[FlyboyAgain]

The CCA now seem to be out of the loop and we are back to dealing with the bank. Advice?

[davey77]

I take it it's an application form with no prescribed terms therefore unenforceable?

 

I would try the method of getting the original re my post 67.. or the CPR. Doesn't look like you are going to get anything else out of them any other way.

[davey77]

Is that an account number scribbled at the bottom of App1 as well as a name at the top.

 

In any case, don't see any prescribed terms there for the that year 2000 application for credit therefore unenforceable.