Triton on behalf of RBS

[Luminol]

Hi all,

 

Im a bit confused today after recieving a letter from Triton its states:

 

Dear Lumi

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland

 

We are pleased to have come to a temporary (temporary???) agreement with you (the agreement they refer to is a CCJ) and wish to confirm the terms of the arrangement to cover the next 6 payments (are they saying that they will try and vary the amount after the 6 payments).

 

Theses terms are as follows:

 

Your initial payment of £2.00 should be credited to account number XXXXXXX by This date.

 

In the event that you have agreed a regular repayment programms, then we expect the future payments to be made by the due date.

 

The following payment methods are available to you:

 

Credit/Debit Card

 

Cheque Postal Order

 

Visit Branch of RBoS

 

Internet Payments

 

If payments are not made as agreed then this agreement will lapse and we will contact you (surely the court would contact me) immediately for payment of the full amount due. If you have any difficulties making these payments please contact us before the payment date to discuss the matter.

 

Your Sincerley

 

Vicki Coleman

Recovery Manager

 

Ok so it states on the letter that Triton is part of RBoS, have Credit Management Services at Kendal Court gone?

 

Why send this letter now and why transfer to another inhouse Debt Collector?

 

Can they do any of this and does anyone have any suggestions of a letter that I can send to them, because Im really annoyed but Im not sure why??

 

Also if the court order says pay the company named below i.e. 'Credit Management Servs', can RBoS change the company? Why are these people obsessed with messing with my head, I swear Im gonna go Bankrupt then they can't have another penny!

 

This is the debt it refers to: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178052-ccj-confusion.html

 

Any help would be gratefully received!

 

Thanks Guys

Edited March 6, 2009 by Luminol
brainstorm

[Luminol]

In addition Ive just found this statement on the web 'Triton Credit are owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland, and are a dormant company according to Companies house' is this true how do I find out, also should I of had a NOA?

[Luminol]

ashamed *Bump* its just everytime I think somethings resolved, something else crops up!

[andrew1]

In addition Ive just found this statement on the web 'Triton Credit are owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland, and are a dormant company according to Companies house' is this true how do I find out, also should I of had a NOA?

 

Don't take any notice of the Dormant Company status. I had long discussions about this with Companies House and it is Legal. Triton were a Natwest company before the t/o by RBS and therefore became a RBS company. Triton exist in name only and all costs receipts, staff, paperclips etc are paid for and financed by RBS, therefore Triton have no accounts to submit, they owe nothing, they buy nothing so as far as companies house are concerned they can file Dormant company accounts for as long as they like. DO NOT think they are wrongfully trading, they are not ( sadly).

 

I've not gone over your thread I just don't have the time and someone else will fill you in on that, but I thought I'd clear that dormant company bit up for you.

[Luminol]

Thanks Andrew, much appreciated, I wait for someone else to fill me in on the rest then.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Triton is, as pointed out above, just part of RBS. I have never seen anything other than template letters from them, and the 'one size fits all' approach is clearly not always useful, nor is the usual one bank, many names practice.

 

In my dealings with RBS (my own and on behalf of someone else), I have always addressed correspondence to RBS, and then mentioned in the text 'I refer to your letter of (date) on your Triton letterhead'. It's never been a problem.

 

I'd be inclined to ignore this, especially if you are already complying with the Court order. Keep it, though, in case they do it again, in which case a formal harassment complaint would be in order.

[Luminol]

Thanks SP, so what you think I should do is still to pay Credit Management Servs at Kendal Court and totally disregard there request for payments to be made to them now.

 

I thought I should write a letter to them pointing out the terms of the Court Judgement and that it says on that I should pay Kendal Court, what Im unhappy with is the messing me about, pay them, pay us etc etc, and the whole terminology used like 'We are pleased to have come to a temporary agreement with you and wish to confirm the terms of the arrangement to cover the next 6 payments' I don't think its good enough to call it a standard letter, we didnt come to any arrangement, they hauled my bottom to court and got them to do it!

 

I really am annoyed and don't want them to think they can mess me about like this.......Or am I over reacting, Im quite poorly atm, blood pressure through roof, ear & chest infection and am feeling run down by all this.

 

In addition if I ignore this letter and dont pay by 15/03/2009, will that class as a default? because I chose to pay the original debt collection agency?

 

Sorry for the babbling and thanks for your help.

 

Lumi x

[Luminol]

Sp I know your here, but I have to go to bed now as I feel like I have bricks in my chest and head, ill be back tomorrow thanks for your help in advance I'll try and come back calmer tomorrow with a rational head on!! x

[andrew1]

Luminol it sounds to me as though you are being got at by these people..in my worst days my BP was around 200/100 and I felt the same, now I hardly need medication I'm back in control. Over 2 yrs ago someone wrote this below on CAG about the way the banks were treating him, but it is no different for DCA's or anyone else trying to take control of your life and emotions. Read it - find a way....I don't remember who wrote it, but they won't mind me posting it up I am sure..enjoy..

 

“Ruminations:

 

This was a liberating day - surprisingly so, in some respects.

 

Got up early, having decided to set the ball rolling. Drove my long-suffering wife (it's our 23rd anniversary on Sunday - your felicitations will be most welcome) to work and went to have a cup of coffee while waiting for the banks to open. A multi-shot black coffee with cream. Woke me up a bit.

 

Banks opened: I went to the Portman Building society first and asked if they had a basic bank account. No, is the short answer. They can't do standing orders and DDs, so no use to me then. Looked for Co-Op: none in (market city in SW England). So I went to Lloyds TSB. I've banked with them before - 30 years ago, when I was a student. The moment I stopped being a student, they demanded the entire overdraft back. Immediately. So I switched - to NatWest, as it happens, but that was a long time ago and I've been with Midland, Barclays and NatWest again, since then.

 

Didn't have the right ID so I had to go home and get it. Went back. Explained that my credit rating was likely to be bl**dy awful - CCjs, debts registered - from bad times in the late 1990s, what with negative equity and everything. Lost £ooos on my house. Bad times, bad times. I've been grateful to NatWest for the account, the overdraft, the loan (which was for the charges racked up on my account, in essence) - everything. She said it would probably be OK: discharged bankrupts are able to have the Cash account. I wouldn't get a cheque book for at least three months but they would do SOs and DDs.

 

So we went through the opening procedure. As it turned out, the ID-ing was fine: they got me from the Electoral Roll and whatever else they use. Then: she said 'Now we do the credit scoring'.

 

Gulp!

 

(she took a deep breath, too!)

 

She pressed the button and....all fine. Nothing registered. I looked at the screen, so did she. I couldn't believe it, and neither could she, quite, because of the harrowing tale I'd told (briefly) about the problems, the CCJs (last one - 2 years ago - was Inland Revenue not agreeing the arrangement I'd put forward. The Court accepted my arrangement but gave judgement, in any case). I couldn't believe it - but then: all the financial issues, the CCJs and so on (except for Inland Revenue) were more than 6 years ago. Apparently, I was the first person for ages she didn't have to call head office about.

 

This is interesting. It was liberating - you can hardly believe the weight I felt fall from my shoulders. I've tried, over the past year or so, to negotiate loans from NatWest, either at my own instigation or by them suggesting and - no go. Don't rack up on the credit scoring.

 

I had thought - no, I'd firmly believed - for so long that I wasn't worth anything, that I was lucky to have a bank that would allow me a cheque/debit card, that i was, indeed, deeply fortunate to be allowed an overdraft and, a few years ago, a loan.

 

The experience of opening the parachute account helped me to realise something. It's a commercial relationship, nothing more (or less). But it was much more than that. Much, much more than that. It's about the relationship I've had with NatWest.

 

Psychiatrists, or maybe psychologists - counsellors and therapists, anyway - have a term for what's been going on between me and NatWest. It's called a co-dependent abusive relationship. The submissive partner - me, in this case - has feelings of worthlessness, and comes to depend on the abusive partner - the bank. The feeling of worthlessness is such that you become grateful for anything, no matter how humiliating it is. They have all the power, you have none, but they are prepared to notice you and pay some attention. They treat you with contempt - which, from their point of view, is no more than you deserve: you're a useless, submissive worm. But you are grateful: after all, no-one else will give you anything, you know that. You know it and believe it, deep in your heart.

 

Wrong.

 

Other people, outsiders, wonder why you stay in such an abusive situation. They wouldn't, they tell themselves. But you might. You might be gradually ground down, as I was. You might feel, or even believe, that you deserve the abuse. So you accept it, and you effectively beg for any attention you can get, no matter if it reinforces the appalling, negative image you've built up of yourself. You accept the refusals, the dismissals, as just, and no more than you deserve. You embrace each positive reaction as a huge favour. But it's all an abuse. As the introduction to the site says, the banks play on our innate feelings of morality, of equity and of justice and fair play. We have been brought up to believe that the banks are pillars of society, that they are above mere trade and commerce, that they are something Other. But they aren't: they're in business, like your mechanic, the market trader, the sandwich shop, Tesco's, anything. They are no more than traders and they actually produce: nothing. Not a damn thing. They add nothing of value, they merely facilitate transactions, nothing more.

 

So, opening the parachute account was a big step. Actually deciding to do it was, in fact, the Big Step. I have decided to be abused no more. Not only have I decided that, I've taken a real, positive and concrete step to do something about it, to do more than just talk about it or fantasise. I have decided to move away from the situation where I've been abused.

 

Yes, I've been lucky in the credit scoring and not everyone will get the same. But the Big Step was the decision to do it. My next tranche of income is going in to the new account. The standing orders and DDs will be transferred shortly before the next lump of income. The NatWest account will be in dispute and probably over the overdraft limit but I no longer worry about it. I'm not worried about the charges they'll levy because I now know they're unlawful. I'm looking forward to finding out what my life will be like when I'm no longer putting up with someone looting my account to the tune of £300 or £400 a month.

 

NatWest isn't my children, it isn't my car (which needs to be repaired); it isn't the updated computer I would like to have in order to do my work, it isn't my wife's birthday present and it isn't my mother, who lives over 200 miles away and I haven't been able to get to see for over a year because I couldn't afford it. It isn't the heating oil company, who'd threatened to close my credit account - leaving me without heat this winter because the DDs had been bounced - and while there was no money available. It isn't the local authority, whose DD was bounced yet again this month, because of the charges. NatWest doesn't deserve any respect from me: it hasn't shown me any. It deserves neither consideration or fear from me.

 

I have my parachute account. I don't care that I won't have a chequebook for a few months. It will be a while before the case comes to court but, in my mind and in my heart, I'm now free.

 

 

Let that be a message to anyone feeling the same - you are not alone

[ScarletPimpernel]

Since there's a CCJ in this case, you are making payments in accordance with an order of the Court to Credit Management Services, in the amount ordered by the Court. RBS (using the Triton letterhead), can't change the amount without going back to Court. It's not unknown for creditors to try it on like this, however - often through incompetence (all those different trading names seems to result in arrse/elbow locational dysfunction).

 

As long as you are paying the amount ordered by the Court, to the company named on the judgment, they can do nothing. You could write and point out that they have no authority to vary an order of the Court if you wanted to put their c0ck up on record.

[Luminol]

Let that be a message to anyone feeling the same - you are not alone

 

Andrew thank you very much! I woke up today feeling a bit better, sometimes it just seems hard, probably when my pool of strength gets to low!

 

I appreciate your post and thanks for taking the time to care

[Luminol]

Thanks SP, Your help appreciated as always, don't know what I'd do without you guys on here *sniff*, I think I am going to write a letter querying their need to vary the terms of my payment, as I would like some proof that this is what they've done and an explaination of why. I would rather stand up to them at every opportunity then let anything slip.

[Luminol]

Heres my letter:

 

09/03/2009

Dear Sir/Madam

Reference: xxxx

Thank you for your recent letter under the letterhead of Triton Credit Services. I am slightly bemused as to the content of the letter. As you are aware the above account is subject to a County Court Judgement, in which it states,

‘Payments must be made to the person named at the address for payments giving the claimants reference number and claim number’.

The address and payments details are ‘Credit Management Services’ quoting the above account numbers. Then I must ask myself why I have been sent a letter asking me to pay Triton Credit Services, and to use a completely different number? I would ask you to clarify for me the points below:

 

• Have you notified the court of your intention to vary the current details of the Judgement? If you have not I duly ask for you to do so and to advise myself when this has been done.
  

 

• Why does the Triton letter state that this is a ‘temporary agreement’?
  

 

• Why does the Triton letter state this is an arrangement for 6 months?
  

I am unsure of why you have sought to complicate matters and confuse myself regarding this issue.

I would be grateful if you can advise me of your position in relation the account.

Yours Faithfully

 

 

Lumi

 

 

What do you think, is it ok?

[Luminol]

In addition is it worth mentioning the OFT guidance on debt recovery, specifically these points:

 

c. using more than one debt collection business at the same time

resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties

 

d. not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different

parties

 

e. not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a

different debt collector

 

Im sure one of them applies.

[Luminol]

any comments guys?

[Luminol]

Bump, Im gonna post this tomorrow and would really like some feedback before I do, does the letter sound okay because Grammar isnt my strongpoint.

 

Thanks

[Luminol]

Feel a bit silly bumping again, but can anyone reassure me that this letter sounds right?

[Luminol]

Ok I have re drafted the letter and I will post it tomorrow, I have to wait for a friend to print letters off for me as I dont own a printer

 

Thank you for your recent letter under the letterhead of Triton Credit Services. I am slightly bemused as to the content of the letter. As you are aware the above account is subject to a County Court Judgement, in which it states,

 

‘Payments must be made to the person named at the address for payments giving the claimants reference number and claim number’.

 

The address and payments details are ‘Credit Management Services’ quoting the above account numbers. I must ask myself why I have been sent a letter asking me to pay Triton Credit Services, and to use a completely different number? I would ask you to clarify for me the points below:

 

 

• Have you notified the court of your intention to vary the current details of the Judgement? If you have not I duly ask for you to do so and to advise myself when this has been done.
  

 

• Why does the Triton letter state that this is a ‘temporary agreement’?
  

 

• Why does the Triton letter state this is an arrangement for 6 months?
  

 

Can I also draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading guide for Debt Collection, specifically:

 

Not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different

parties.

Not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a

different debt collector.

 

I am unsure of why you have sought to complicate matters and confuse me regarding this issue.

 

Additionally, I would like to make you aware that due to these circumstances I have felt obligated to enclose a postal order for the amount agreed as well as making payment via the internet under the supplementary request by the recent letter headed from Triton Credit Services (despite the fact that I had already sent another postal order earlier this month).

 

I would be grateful if you can advise me of your position in relation to the account.

 

 

Does this letter sound better now? I think I've covered most of my query, I'm making duplicate payments so I'm not tricked into defaulting (not that they would do that I'm sure).

[andrew1]

Luminol, whilst I understand why you are wishing not to get duped into getting defaults as they are hard enough to get removed, I would also indicate that any payments you have made need to be returned forthwith as you cannot go against a court order and pay someone else - you might as well start paying me too

 

Might I suggest you write to the Original creditor and get them to tell you what the hell is going on, reimburse your costs - postage, postal orders and a small token of compensation for your time and worry. This should not be passed from pillar to post and you might like to precede the OFT guidelines you quoted by including the heading Physical/psychological harassment

 

You should not being paying twice to anyone. Letter sounds fine though well done.

[Luminol]

Thanks Andrew, how do I go about asking for costs? Just add a bit in saying this isnt fair and you can compensate me for messing me about? I was also going to send a copy of this letter to Northampton, who would I address that to? Im sure the courts would look dimly on RBoS changing the details of the Judgement without telling them.

[andrew1]

Thanks Andrew, how do I go about asking for costs? Just add a bit in saying this isnt fair and you can compensate me for messing me about? I was also going to send a copy of this letter to Northampton, who would I address that to? Im sure the courts would look dimly on RBoS changing the details of the Judgement without telling them.

 

I'd just say something like " In addition I would like you to reimburse me for the additional costs I have had to incur as a result of this. My actual costs to date come to ( x x letters @ £6.25 ( court allowed when claiming costs) , x postal orders + charges (Poundage) x stamps @ and you would like repayment of time spent @ £9.25 per hour...and a goodwill gesture on their part for the harassment of perhaps £50 ....just keep it reasonable and see what comes back. I'd never hold your breath waiting for compensation, but you are due it and there's no harm done in asking them - it's their fault after all. Northampton is a bulk servicing machine too, I think you'd be wasting your time writing to them, although someone with more knowledge of that might suggest differently.

[Luminol]

Thanks Andrew, I thought I was going mad thinking what they were doing was unfair...I'll try and catch the letters before they are printed, and I'll hang fire with reporting it to the court, although I do think RBoS have little respect for the Judgement and just see it as a matter of course.

[Luminol]

Updating thread: Letter sent recorded delivery with request for compensation and explaination to why they have varied Judgement.

[Luminol]

Hi all just to update, checked Royal mail and they said:

 

Your item with reference BR********* was delivered back to sender from our OAKENGATES Delivery Office before 08:57 on 11/03/09.

This item was returned to the sender as we were unable to deliver the item.

 

 

 

So they must not be signing for mail!! makes you wonder how many people will be defaulting on thier agreements because RBS couldnt sign for thier mail that day!

[ScarletPimpernel]

They are signing for mail, but they seem to be confused about where they work.

 

I had an interesting chat with Triton today, on behalf of someone I am helping.

 

Drone: Triton Credit Services

Me: Hello. Who am I speaking to?

Drone: err XXXXX. Can I help you?

Me: I hope so. I'm calling as the authorised representative of Ms XXXX, and I have a couple of questions I hope you can answer for me. Shall I give you the reference number?

Drone: Yes please.

Me: XXXXXXXXX

Drone: OK. What did you say your name was?

Me: I didn't. It's Sir Percy Blakeney - Ms XXXX wrote to tell you I was acting for her. I'm recording this, incidentally - I hope you don't mind.

Drone: Just a sec.... Ok, I've got the file. There's no letter here, so I can't discuss anything with you about the account.

Me: How odd; can you answer a couple of general questions then?

Drone: I'll try.

Me: Good. Do you work for Triton?

Drone: Yes, of course.

Me: I see; so Triton is your employer?

Drone: Yes.

Me: Are you certain? It's just that Triton is a dormant company, and I understand that dormant companies can't employ staff. Aren't you actually an RBS employee?

Drone: Yes - but what difference does it make?

Me: Well, you've just lied to me, which means that I can't really have any confidence that what you say will be the truth. The thing is, the letter from Ms XXXXX was signed for on (date), so I think you must have it.

Drone: Let me have another look..... Actually there is a note here. How can I help you with the account?

Me: I'd like you to explain why, when formal dispute was raised six months ago, the bank has failed to comply with OFT Guidance and continued collection activity, including phoning when you've been asked that all communication should be in writing, have completely failed to address the dispute in any way, have continued to add charges to an alleged debt that consists entirely of charges, and have threatened court action.

Drone: errr...

Me: It's a simple enough question. The moment the bank knew there was a dispute, it had to suspend all collection activity, so why didn't they?

Drone: We might not have had the letter...

Me: Nice try, but it was signed for on (date), and a SAR was included which your compliance people eventually actioned.

Drone: Can I just put you on hold for a moment?

 

Several minutes later, the drone tells me that he has been instructed not to say anything more, and someone else will call me back - they did. It was a senior manager, back-pedalling for NATO, and promising that all activity has now stopped. His first question was to ask if I was a solicitor. He said that the bank had sent several letters to my client to ask her to discuss the dispute, so I asked why these had not been included in the recent SAR; so on top of the other non-compliant behaviour he'd just admitted that the bank didn't comply with a SAR properly (or was lying about the letters, which I think is more accurate).

 

I got the distinct impression that they are keen to avoid complaints about compliance, which has never bothered them before. The manager was waffling a lot about the OFT case, and said that RBS policy was to wait until after their appeal (the one the judge denied them permission for), and that there 'might be a level of charges agreed that would mean refunds for customers', but I couldn't get him to enlarge upon the point.

 

Anyway, keep at it Luminol - these creatures can be beaten.