Welcome Finance - Default Notice

[talisman_81]

I was sent the letter below a few weeks ago by welcome finance, on a loan i had taken out with them 2 years ago.

 

I phoned them up after recieving the letter in order to arrange payment. I had been intending to make payment to Welcome Finance after i had started working full time again last year - but as i hadn't paid them in quite some time, my account had apparently been moved to a DCA, and thus any attempt to actually pay them was put off. I was told a couple of months ago to do nothing until i hear from the DCA.

 

So that's why i hadn't paid welcome finance. And then this letter arrives for me a few weeks ago, from welcome finance (and not a DCA).

 

Anyway, after speaking to their collections department i've set up a temporary direct debit, for them to take £50 from my account every month. The guy on the phone was quite friendly, but he did say that after a couple of months on this payment plan they would then require proof of income, and incomings and outgoings - so that they could revise it or prove that this was all i could afford. He said he would be willing to settle the entire account and close it down if i made a payment of £2000. I said i would try to do that in the next couple of months, and that for the timebeing i would pay the £50 by direct debit.

 

So while i've got 2 months, i just thought i should post the original letter here, and find out if i have any other options. I don't want to disclose my incomings and outgoings, i don't want to have to fork out £2000 in one go (i can't afford that), and i most certainly don't want them to end up getting an attachment order.

 

Here is the original letter, any help would be appreciated:

 

English Attachment of Earnings Department

Specialist Collections Unit

Apex House

Apex Business Park

Ruddington Lane

Wilford

Nottingham

NG11 7DD

Account No Ref: xxxxxxx

Date: 06 February 2009

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear talisman_81

FAILURE TO READ THIS LETTER MAY RESULT IN LEGAL PROCEEDINGS

 

You are hearby served under Section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act with the attached Default Notice. We intend to exercise our rights to enforce collection unless you clear the arrears within fourteen (14) days or alternatively contact us with your proposals for settlement.

Be advised that should you fail to contact us and legal action becomes necessary we may apply through the courts for an Attachment of Earnings Order to be made and deducted via your employers.

This notice should include a copy of the current Office of Fair Trading information sheet on default. This contains important information about your rights and where to go for support and advice. If it is not included, you should contact us to get one.

You will also be held liable for legal expenses incurred.

We strongly urge you to telephone the undersigned immediately with your intentions.

 

Yours sincerely

Welcome Finance

 

 

 

IMPORTANT – YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY

DEFAULT NOTICE

Served Under Section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Date of Notice 06 February 2009

Agreement Reference: xxxxxxx

Between talisman_81 of xxxxxxx and WELCOME FINANCE or Merey Way, Ruddington Fields Business Pk, Ruddington, Nottingham, NG11 6NZ

We refer to the above agreement which you have entered into with us. The terms and conditions provide that you must pay each monthly instalment in full on its due date. You are in breach because you have failed to pay the contractual instalments.

To remedy the breach you must pay to us the total arrears of £2583.14 within fourteen (14) days.

IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH

IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAIN YOU (OR A SURETY)

Further Action:

On or after the date shown we shall:

-require payment of the outstanding balance less rebate allowable and other deductions (if any) as set out below:

-enforce any security given in connection with this Account.

If the arrears have been paid before the date shown above you may ignore this demand.

Total amount payable under agreement (less any Installation Charge): £4428.24

Total amount that you have paid by the date of the giving of this notice: £0.00

PAYMENTS TO BE MADE:

‘Arrears’: £2583.14

Outstanding balance under this agreement: £4589.97

Less rebate allowable in future instalments*: £1446.51

Less insurance rebate*: (£50.70)

Total amount to be Paid: £5985.78

*Rebate is calculated on the assumption that payment is made on the date shown and will be revised if payment in full is not made on that date.

IF YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY IN PAYING ANY SUM OWING UNDER THE ACCOUNT OR TAKING ANY OTHER ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE YOU CAN APPLY TO THE COURT WHICH MAY MAKE AN ORDER ALLOWING YOU OR ANY SURETY MORE TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT TO DO, YOU SHOULD GET HELP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. FOR EXAMPLE YOU SHOULD CONTACT A SOLICITOR, YOUR LOCAL TRADING STANDARDS DEPARTMENT OR YOUR NEAREST CITIZENS’ ADVICE BUREAU.

Signed – Branch Manager, Welcome Finance

[cerberusalert]

Don't they fancy themselves? "Without Prejudice" = A statement set onto a written document such as a letter, which qualifies the signatory as exempt from the content to the extent that it may be interpreted as containing admissions or other interpretations which could later be used against him or her; or as otherwise affecting any legal rights of the principal of, or the person signing.

 

This notice isn't worth a monkey's toss, for a start it doesn't give a date as to when the account must be rectified by.

 

Don't send them an I&E form, send them a CCA request instead to see if the agreement is enforceable % that they have the right to collect;

 

They have 12 + 2 days to comply to your request. If they fail or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

You should also note that I will only discuss this matter in writing and should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you or any of your associates.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(Print do not sign signature)

[cerberusalert]

Next, cancel that direct debit & tell your bank that under no circumstances are they to allow any money transfer to Welcome without your express permission. As it is now, because they have your DD details they can take as much as they like whenever they like. If you wish to make payments set up a standing order where you will have full control.

[twofoot]

Cancel the DD pronto.

[talisman_81]

Thank you for the speedy responses.

 

So should i cancel the DD and set it up as a standing order instead?

 

I'll send that letter out first thing tomorrow morning, recorded delivery. One thing i am concerened about more than anything else here is winding them up so that they then request the full amount oweing.

 

At the moment they are saying that i could pay £2000 to settle the entire matter. If i persue this, is it likely they'll take that option off the table?

[cerberusalert]

So should i cancel the DD and set it up as a standing order instead?

Certainly

 

At the moment they are saying that i could pay £2000 to settle the entire matter. If i persue this, is it likely they'll take that option off the table?

 

It is your legal right to request a copy of your agreement at any time. Ask yourself this question, why would they offer you such a reduction if they had an enforceable agreement where they could collect it all? The second question, what proof have you other than a telephone conversation?

 

They are lying thieving barstewards (allegedly) and I wouldn't believe a word they said.

[talisman_81]

Ok, so tomorrow i'll send this off and i'll post the reply (if/when i recieve it) on here.

 

I'll also phone the bank and cancel the DD. I'm going to have to find out their bank details i guess, in order to set up a standing order. I bet you that won't be easy? Or perhaps the bank can use the DD details to make it into a standing order?

 

Again, thanks for the help!

[cerberusalert]

Some people have experienced banks refusing to cancel DDs but if they do when you insist long and hard enough they fold.

 

You can include in the letter that you want Welcome's details to set up an SO, or alternatively a paying in book/slips.

[talisman_81]

Hi everyone,

 

After thinking long and hard about this, i intend to follow through and fight Welcome Finance all the way (whatever it takes).

 

I had initially decided to start paying them a set amount every month (£40) - and then 2 weeks ago i recieved an income and expenditure form from them, basically saying they wanted me to up the amount or they would DEMAND the rest of the amount in full.

 

I phoned them and upped the DD payments to £50 per month, which they accepted.

 

However, now reading this forum some more, and plucking up the courage i'm ready to take them on.

 

Should I go ahead and post the letter above?

 

I might need walking through this a bit - but i certainly intend to see it through all the way.

 

Many thanks for any help provided!

[T2upNorth]

Hi everyone,

 

After thinking long and hard about this, i intend to follow through and fight Welcome Finance all the way (whatever it takes).

 

I had initially decided to start paying them a set amount every month (£40) - and then 2 weeks ago i recieved an income and expenditure form from them, basically saying they wanted me to up the amount or they would DEMAND the rest of the amount in full.

 

I phoned them and upped the DD payments to £50 per month, which they accepted.

 

However, now reading this forum some more, and plucking up the courage i'm ready to take them on.

 

Should I go ahead and post the letter above?

 

I might need walking through this a bit - but i certainly intend to see it through all the way.

 

Many thanks for any help provided!

 

 

Hi Talisman

 

Firstly, Welcome can not require you to provide an income and expenditure form. Only a court can do that.

 

Secondly, Welcome are on their last legs and are desperately trying everything they can to get a few more pennies in before they go under. Cattles have been ejected from the stock exchange and have defaulted on their own finance arrangements.

 

It's not clear what will happen next. Keep an eye on the general Welcome Finance thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-finance/109794-welcome-finance-352.html#post2282370 for updates....

[talisman_81]

Ok cool. I'll watch that thread for sure!

 

What do you recommend i do in the meantime? Shall i cancel my DD straight away? or send them the above letter first, as per the original advice i had been given?

[cerberusalert]

Yes send the letter. Don't worry about having 'to be walked through, that's what we're here for.

[talisman_81]

ok, this is going to be fired off first thing monday morning.

 

If i don't receive a response in the required time, then cancel the DD?

[gibeno]

hi, i'm writing because i have been looking through the forum for capquest not giving out a statement on an old loan,... then i came across this. not too sure that youve been given the best advice.

 

The first reply to this that it isnt worth a monkeys toss has made me chuckle. without prejudice means that basically the signatury on the letter is sending it on the companys behalf.

secondly it states that it gives you no timescales, it clearly states that you have 14 days from the date of the letter to clear your arrears... and asking for a statement wont delay them. they have to send a statement to the courts to prove they have a case, trust me they will send this asap.

 

also look at the amount you have paid, NOTHING, since you had the loan (in 2 years??). its hardly surprising they have started to take legal proceedings. and then when you have set a dd you then cancel it.. law states that you cannot take legal proceedings on an account if you have paid in the last 60 days.. so they will still take you to court. and unless you put in a good fight for the case you'll be paying probably more than £50 a month i'm afraid..trust me - its happened to me

 

yes, everyone has heard about cattles and there problems but media seems to be overhyped if you ask me..

 

please post back to let us know whats happening as i feel you've been misled..

[postggj]

Gibeno

 

Bad Advice

I Think You Need To Step Back And Hit The Books

 

Without Prejudice Means The Letter Cant Be Used In Court Unless All Parties Agree

 

Look In The Default Termination Legislation

 

why Am I Bothering With This Cyberusalert Has Allready Put This To Bed

 

Why Have You Moved Off Of Lse Stay On Your Own Forum Please

[littlefatbudha]

HI everyone, also i am dealing with a duff default notice at the moment "Hi postggj" having read alot of forums now, i think the actual date that the default notice has to be adhered to should be on notice and not within 14 days, there has to be a clear date set for the default notice, or you could say you have just received notice and the 14 days start from now.

Also this should be included in default notice "BUT IF YOU HAVE PAID AT LEAST ONE-THIRD OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAYABLE UNDER THE AGREEMENT SET OUT BELOW( or any installation chargeplus one-thirdof the rest of the amount payable), THE CREDITOR MAY NOT TAKE BACK THE GOODS AGAINST YOU WISHES UNLESS HE GETS A COURT ORDER( in Scotland, he may need to get a court order at any time), IF HE DOES TAKE THEM WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT OR A COURT ORDER, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET BACK ALL THE MONEY YOU HAVE PAID UNDER THE AGREEMENT SET OUT BELOW.

bY THIS NOT BEING ON THE DEFAULT NOTICE, YOU COULD ALSO STATE THAT THIS WAS REMOVED TO DIGUISE YOUR RIGHTS.

 

 

I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THESE MATTERS, PLEASE SEEK FURTHER ADVICE FROM THE FORUM MEMBERS !

Edited August 15, 2009 by littlefatbudha