GE Money-Repossession-FSA

[nevos]

HI, Just thought to share this with you all.

 

GE Started a repossession recently but, we have paid the arrears in full.

 

What was a bit of a shock was that they had issued a default notice, filed the repossession claim and we got a notice persuant to civil procedure rules 55.10(2) and (3) All dated the 13th of February, so they did the whole deal in one day.

 

The POC states they did this that and the other to ressolve the problem however, they did sweet nothing. Partly my fault because, we wrote to them ages ago to stop sending consultants and adding £90 a shot to our mortgage. Plus when the account went one month over we got 20 calls a day, turned out they use a computerised system to call people which, I thought was illegal.

 

So, my question is:

 

They say they won't be turning up at the hearing, we need to reply to the claim, can do this Monday.

 

Do we need to still go to the hearing as we don't trust them as far as we can pee?

 

and

 

Should we send a complaint to the FSA about their conduct and that of the solicitor?

 

Any comments would be appreciated, Thanks!

[tendogs]

I've had dealings with these guys and Eversheds their tame solicitors. I have been lied to, had signatures suddenly appearing on documents that were previously unsigned, etc, etc.

Not only would I not trust them I'd turn up with a body guard and remove all my jewellery.

I see you're after your charges from them, I'm nearly at the end of that road, and the succession of increasing offers I've received leads me to think I'll get my money back.

Good luck with this lot.

 

Dogs

[nevos]

Hi Tendogs,

 

Was mulling this over this afternoon, decided to counterclaim for the charges. As luck would have it last year we sent them a pre lim for the charges which total about £1400, this was in July 08, now have drafted the LBA and it's going in the morning.

 

I always had this thing in my mind like, why when these guys gor for repossession doesn't anyone counter claim the charges? had mentioned this in the odd thread but, never got a real concrete reply, sooo, here we go!

 

Your right 100%, I'm going to the hearing for sure, funny thing their solicitors sent a really nice letter saying : Plz let us know if your going to turn up as we have not instructed anyone to appear, well, by Tuesday they will get the counter claim and the LBA etc..this crew are a real set of ....better not say it or I will be banned of CAG lol..and it's Sunday..

[tendogs]

Yep, that’s them. After we had repaid the mortgage I sent them a SAR and then the fun began. At first they sent a bunch of documents that belonged to someone else and then things went downhill from there. Go get em

[nevos]

I read on here some place: Once you had repaid the loan then you had accepted the final figure and the agreement was ended, some claims had been rejected on estoppel grounds. Hope you get your money TD's

[tendogs]

Well, that’s cheered me up on a Monday morning .

 

They seem to be behaving as though they predict loosing this one with a succession of increasing offers trying to buy me off :-|.

 

They imposed a early redemption charge which was a poorly disguised penalty charge and various other poorly described, some might say deliberately poorly described, charges to the account before the mortgage was redeemed. In effect they paid themselves nearly £10,000.00 of our money in various charges which they steadfastly refuse to explain to me .

 

Now, they may be justified but it seems excessive and I am determined to have an accounting from them and if that requires me to take them to court for every charge then I will. They’ve made me cross and, worst of all, they’re rude .

[tendogs]

What are you doing up at 5 in the morning?

[nevos]

Hi There TD's...sorry about that comment about estoppel, just wanted you to be aware.

 

I'm an early bird coz have to go to bed at 9-30 due to a noisy neighbour plus, who said an hour in the morning is worth two in the afternoon.

 

One thing struck me today, which GE are you on about there are two of them? GE Home Lending Ltd and the other one is GE Money Servicing Ltd. They will both be as bad as each other mind.

 

TD's Have you been reading about the under table payments to brokers?

 

Go for them it it is the only way, or they will feel they are above the law.

 

Now for a quick up date NEWS FLASH.

 

Prepared the counterclaim yesterday, I dont have a full schedule of the charges but, I have enough evidence to throw a big spanner in the works.

 

Took it to the County Court this morning and presented it to the nice chap on inquiries, I asked, is it an appropriate time to counterclaim? he looked at it and said " Oh Yes Why Not" just need to pay £75 fee and we will see you on the day, felt really pleased about it, not parting with the money but, if it is acceptable to file for late payment fees etc in answer to a repossession action then, it may well help a lot of folk on CAG.

 

Stage 1.

 

Take this scenario: You owe 3 months mortgage, they hit you with the repo, you hit back with the charges argument and a rough guide amount but, you don't particularise the claim ( not at this point anyways).

 

Stage 2.

 

Chances are at the hearing the Judge will ask you if you know exactly how much the charges are, you say:

 

" The exact amount is not known at this stage however, you have attached a statement showing some of the charges and in light of the repo action, you have issued an SAR to the claimant. Unfortunately, the claimant has 40 days to reply. May we request an adjournemt which would allow us to particularise all the charges plus interest" IMO the Judge would go along with this as it is fair.

 

The result is you probably bought yourself 2 to 3 months which, you can find another place, find the money for the mortgage arrears and at least try to recover your charges even if your cause is a bit lost.

 

It struck me that, a lot of people could most likely of kept their homes with the big drop in interest rates, making some mortgages less expensive than renting.

 

Would like to get some feedback on this if anyones interested? Goldlady perhaps?

[jansus]

The only thing I would comment on and this is IMO is that for charges I would pursue the official complaints proceedure before going to court. i.e through the FOS .

 

Once you have gone through the courts it is out of the FOS hands.

 

But best of luck with your claim if that is what you have decided to do.

[nevos]

The only thing I would comment on and this is IMO is that for charges I would pursue the official complaints proceedure before going to court. i.e through the FOS. Once you have gone through the courts it is out of the FOS hands. .

 

Hi Jansus, thanks for your reply. Under normal circumstances, yes FOS works well though can be slow. My point is for people facing repossession. In our case: GE had issued a solicitors letter, default and started repossession all on the same day, this gave us allowing for post under 24 days before we could have lost the house. OK I accept there could be a remedy, like make full payments plus part of the arrears but, they would still have the order though suspended. Any missed payment etc change in circumstances then " Wam bam thank you mam"

 

Filing a counterclaim for charges effectively slowing the process right down may give people a fighting chance and or at least more time to re-group, find solution.

 

Why roll over and let them take your home, not at least without a fight.

 

Let's say the average mortgage is I don't know £500 to £600 per month then, they will try to repo you and in GE case after 72 days. So we are looking at £1800 arrears, the charges will more likely total that if you have had problems paying. So, let's say charges £1500, your going down for £300 which is less than 2 months payments. As I understand it, they can't get a repo with less than 2 months arrears.

 

I'm not sure we are on the right track here that's why I'm hoping we can debate it further here.

[theotherside]

Hi Jansus, thanks for your reply. Under normal circumstances, yes FOS works well though can be slow. My point is for people facing repossession. In our case: GE had issued a solicitors letter, default and started repossession all on the same day, this gave us allowing for post under 24 days before we could have lost the house. OK I accept there could be a remedy, like make full payments plus part of the arrears but, they would still have the order though suspended. Any missed payment etc change in circumstances then " Wam bam thank you mam"

 

.

 

Ok

 

you would have had a default notice and then 21 days later, the solicitors would have been informed to begin proceedings. They would have then waited for a court date which can take anything up to a month sometimes so you would have had plenty of notice:rolleyes:

[sillygirl1]

Ok

 

you would have had a default notice and then 21 days later, the solicitors would have been informed to begin proceedings. They would have then waited for a court date which can take anything up to a month sometimes so you would have had plenty of notice:rolleyes:

 

Nope, that is not what has happened in this case - and doesn't always happen anyway (in my own experience once you have hada a reposession order and paid the arrears they will come after you even faster should they get a second bite of the cherry). Besides GE seem to have rushed things through on the SAME day if you read the posts properly.

[theotherside]

Nope, that is not what has happened in this case - and doesn't always happen anyway (in my own experience once you have hada a reposession order and paid the arrears they will come after you even faster should they get a second bite of the cherry). Besides GE seem to have rushed things through on the SAME day if you read the posts properly.

 

Something doesnt sit right with this. If the OP wants to PM with their GE ref I can look into it.

[nevos]

Hi, Yes sillygirl1 is right on the money- GEHL Ltd

 

They issued a default notice, court date and sols letter all on the same day. This in effect gave us around 30 days from issue to court hearing early next week.

 

Their idea of pre action protocol is to continually send a consultant to see you at a cost of £90 if you decline the visit they add a charge of £47 then add interest so, your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Forgot to mention: Had to send them the harassment letter to stop this happening but, they kept on the same tack like robots.

 

I realise the counter-claim should be particularised however, going to ask the judge for an ajournment to allow time for the SAR. This should waste plenty of their money on solicitors in the same way they try to waste ours.

Edited March 13, 2009 by nevos

[theotherside]

Hi, Yes sillygirl1 is right on the money- GEHL Ltd

 

They issued a default notice, court date and sols letter all on the same day. This in effect gave us around 30 days from issue to court hearing early next week.

 

Their idea of pre action protocol is to continually send a consultant to see you at a cost of £90 if you decline the visit they add a charge of £47 then add interest so, your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Forgot to mention: Had to send them the harassment letter to stop this happening but, they kept on the same tack like robots.

 

I realise the counter-claim should be particularised however, going to ask the judge for an ajournment to allow time for the SAR. This should waste plenty of their money on solicitors in the same way they try to waste ours.

 

You would have been sent a consultant, as it were, because they were not able to make contact with you or because you never contacted them to make an arrangement on your outstanding balance.

 

If it did all happen on the same day, then yes, something went very wrong but thats something that they would take into account if you took it up with them on the phone.

[tendogs]

Morning, it's good to hear from the other side and welcome. I'm interested in the idea of consultants. Mine were called councillors and clearly were not councillors of any type, the one who tolled up here came for a pint with me and told me "these people are money lenders nothing more than that" which is fair comment. What are these people really and what is there counselling objective and what counselling training do they have?

[nevos]

You would have been sent a consultant, as it were, because they were not able to make contact with you or because you never contacted them to make an arrangement on your outstanding balance.

 

If it did all happen on the same day, then yes, something went very wrong but thats something that they would take into account if you took it up with them on the phone.

 

Yes, it is a fair comment however, I had spoken to them and explained that being self employed my money often came in late though, I had caught up the payments with lump sums in the past.

 

Also, I explained that I wasn't working in the UK and please stop the computerised automated calls to my mobile, in fact during times of being one month in arrears they made 20 + calls a day.

 

From what I understand:

 

1) They will go for repossession after 72 days of arrears.

 

2) Additional payments are subject to 3 monthly reviews.

 

3) They will not amortise the arrears unless you have made 3 months

consecutive payments and the charges roll on plus interest.

 

We do understand that the fault lay with ourselves and that we have breached the contract however, peoples circumstances change, it is obvious by the account history i.e. years of on time payments and then, we hit some problems.

 

My argument is all those charges are penalties including the no choice consultant fees, unfortunately, there is little or no protection from the law or the tactics of sub prime lenders. This was demonstrated clearly by Northern Rock who had the most repossessions.

 

It is simple for me, I want to know if counter claiming for the return of mortgage penalty charges helps anyone who faces repossession even, it serves to delay the process several months and even if the people have no hope to stay in their home.

[theotherside]

Yes, it is a fair comment however, I had spoken to them and explained that being self employed my money often came in late though, I had caught up the payments with lump sums in the past.

 

Also, I explained that I wasn't working in the UK and please stop the computerised automated calls to my mobile, in fact during times of being one month in arrears they made 20 + calls a day.

 

From what I understand:

 

1) They will go for repossession after 72 days of arrears.

 

2) Additional payments are subject to 3 monthly reviews.

 

3) They will not amortise the arrears unless you have made 3 months

consecutive payments and the charges roll on plus interest.

 

We do understand that the fault lay with ourselves and that we have breached the contract however, peoples circumstances change, it is obvious by the account history i.e. years of on time payments and then, we hit some problems.

 

My argument is all those charges are penalties including the no choice consultant fees, unfortunately, there is little or no protection from the law or the tactics of sub prime lenders. This was demonstrated clearly by Northern Rock who had the most repossessions.

 

It is simple for me, I want to know if counter claiming for the return of mortgage penalty charges helps anyone who faces repossession even, it serves to delay the process several months and even if the people have no hope to stay in their home.

 

The mortgage consultants are sent out after you receive a letter advising you they are being sent. You get time to respond to avoid their visit or charges.

The solicitors are instructed after 3 months.

In regards to the charges, you state that you have been in arrears before and cleared in lump sum payments, this does unfortunately go against you signing to say you would make a payment on 1 fixed date each month, hence the charges.

A similar case was made at a local court and although time to pay was given, the judge agreed with the administration charges on the account:)

[nevos]

The mortgage consultants are sent out after you receive a letter advising you they are being sent. You get time to respond to avoid their visit or charges.

The solicitors are instructed after 3 months.

In regards to the charges, you state that you have been in arrears before and cleared in lump sum payments, this does unfortunately go against you signing to say you would make a payment on 1 fixed date each month, hence the charges.

A similar case was made at a local court and although time to pay was given, the judge agreed with the administration charges on the account:)

 

Hi, thanks for your response:

 

Yes, your right you have 7 days to answer the notice of visit letter and 4 days if you don't or are unable to answer.

 

Well, if one refuses the councsellors visit then approx £50 Including VAT for refusal/no contact or cancellation after 4 working days from instruction is added to the account.

 

 

• The Claimant is a wholly dominant partner in a non-negotiable standard-form contract.
  
• There are a limited number of providers of Mortgage services all whom exercise similar dominance over their customers in non-negotiable standard form contracts especially in the sub-prime sector.
  
• These Mortgage providers exercise a collective dominance in the market.
  
• The charges of all Mortgage providers are highly similar in nature and in cost and so the consumer in general and the defendants in particular have no real choice between service providers and are forced to acquiesce to the charges.
  
• The charges exceed actual costs by several thousand percent
  

 

Naturally we will be quoting case law in addition to the bones of the argument

[nevos]

Morning, it's good to hear from the other side and welcome. I'm interested in the idea of consultants. Mine were called councillors and clearly were not councillors of any type, the one who tolled up here came for a pint with me and told me "these people are money lenders nothing more than that" which is fair comment. What are these people really and what is there counselling objective and what counselling training do they have?

 

Hi tendogs nice to hear from you!

 

Yes, my point exactly, it's a case of IMO let's have a look see, oh yes we can sell this house pdq no worries then, let the poor unfortunate repossessed owner pick up the tab for the costs and any shortfall.

 

Actually, you just reminded me, after sending one such councillor the letter ...only the post man and a passer by may visit me without permission letter..low and behold, they found more and more so called councillors..

Edited March 14, 2009 by nevos

[theotherside]

Hi, thanks for your response:

 

Yes, your right you have 7 days to answer the notice of visit letter and 4 days if you don't or are unable to answer.

 

Well, if one refuses the councsellors visit then approx £50 Including VAT for refusal/no contact or cancellation after 4 working days from instruction is added to the account.

 

 

If you respond within 7 days of the letter, then no charge is applied to the account:)

[tendogs]

I ask again, who are these "consellors", independant field counsellors I think they're called, what is their objective and what counselling training have they had?

[tendogs]

I'm also curious about solicitor’s fees on an account; I suspect these solicitors to be "in house" and, as the customer has no choice but to carry the brunt of these fees is it possible for a customer to have access to a schedule of these fees?

[nevos]

If you respond within 7 days of the letter, then no charge is applied to the account:)

 

Yes, thats fine but, what happens when your working 6000 miles away from home?

[nevos]

I ask again, who are these "consellors", independant field counsellors I think they're called, what is their objective and what counselling training have they had?

 

Here is one they use White Horse Company No. 02669395 they provide a whole range of services on behalf of banks, mortgage co's etc here are some of their services:-

 

Mortgage Arrears Counselling

Where our Counsellors are able to meet with, and speak to a borrower in difficulty, an acceptable solution can be found in greater that 80% of all cases. We are also able to provide comprehensive information on the property visited, together with reasons for the Mortgage Arrears.

 

Pre-eviction and Possession Day Attendance

Our counsellors will ensure that occupants are preparing to leave the property on the date set by the Court and that they understand their responsibilities. Where possible we will obtain forwarding and contact details. We can also attend the property on the day of possession, alongside the Court Bailiff, to check that the borrowers have fulfilled their responsibilities to the lender.

 

Post Possession Recovery

Where a borrower has left a property, with an outstanding balance owed, our counsellors can meet with the debtors and help them budget for repaying the debt.

 

 

 

Property Visits and Inspections

We can carry out any type of property visit from a simple ‘drive by’ to ascertain the occupancy and external condition of a property and/ or its immediate environment to a detailed inspection of the property. We will also deliver documents that need to be handed over in person.