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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Hi i need advice one the Metrolink which is run by GMPTE.

 

The GMPTE have there own rules an regulations of traveling on the trams called "Conditions of Carriage"

 

But do they also have to follow the "Regulations Of Railway Act"?

 

I was walking towards the platform and the tram was arriving so i ran to the ticket machine to try and get my ticket in time but the machine was broke, so i didn't have chance to purchase one from the automated machines so i was fined for not having a ticker on the tram, now the "conditions of carriage" rules set by GMPTE state...

A) These Conditions constitute a part of the contract which will exist

between GMPTE and individual passengers wishing to travel on the

Metrolink system.

4. The passenger is liable to make a prepayment or be in possession of a

ticket or other authority to travel before making the intended journey.

The prepaid fare for the journey is set out in GMPTE’s Official Fares

Table, which is available for inspection at GMPTE Trading Office.

 

5. A passenger found to be on a Metrolink vehicle, or on a station platform

having just alighted from a vehicle, without a ticket or pass or other

approved authorisation to travel valid for his/her journey will be liable to

pay a Standard Fare of up to £80 or such other amount as may be

determined by Stagecoach Metrolink from time to time and may be

liable to prosecution

Would i be covered by "

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994"

6 (2) a

 

 

But then couldnt the operator use the rule for bye-law from - Railways Act 1993, 129 (2)a

 

 

im stuck i dont want to pay my £80 fine!

 

grrr

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The following is cut from two documents and may help you in this instance:

 

Firstly, the relevent piece from Greater Manchester PTE Byelaws:

 

AUTHORITY AND PENALTIES

2. (1) These Byelaws are made by GMPTE pursuant to the powers conferred upon it by Section 30 of the Greater Manchester (Light Rapid Transit System) Act 1988 and Section 10 of the Greater Manchester (Light Rapid Transit System) (No 2) Act 1988.

(2) Any Person contravening any of these Byelaws shall be liable upon summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (as defined in Section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982).

 

(3) Any person who is reasonably suspected of contravening, or attempting to contravene, any of these Byelaws: -

  1. shall upon being requested to do so, give his name and address to any Authorised Officer;
  2. may be removed from any vehicle or from the System by force if necessary by any Authorised Officer.
  3. Without prejudice to Byelaws 2(2) and 2(3) above, the Operator may, where a person has either been convicted of an offence on the System other than under these Byelaws, or where a Person has been convicted of any breach of these Byelaws, by written notice to the Person concerned prohibit that Person from entering any Vehicle or Station and any breach of such a prohibition shall constitute a breach of these Byelaws.

CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE

3. PERSONS who are passengers on the System shall comply with the Conditions of Carriage, these Byelaws, and, in relations to those parts of the System which are used jointly with the British Railways Board, with any Byelaws issued by the British Railways Board.

 

TICKETS AND CONCESSIONS

1) EXCEPT with the permission of an Authorised Officer, no person shall enter any Vehicle or Station unless that person:

a) has a valid ticket enabling him to do so; or

b) (i) has every intention of procuring a valid ticket enabling him to do so and

(ii) has proof of the ability to purchase a ticket enabling him to do so; or

c) in the case of a Person entering any Station, has every intention of meeting another Person at that Station

2) No Person shall remain upon a vehicle after the point at which his ticket ceases to be valid.

3) No Person shall alter, deface, mutilate or destroy any ticket or use or attempt to use any ticket which shall in any material respect have been altered, defaced or mutilated.

4) Any Person shall if so requested by any Authorised Officer deliver up his ticket for inspection to such Authorised Officer and such Authorised Officer shall be entitled to retain such ticket if it shall be found to have expired or to have been altered, defaced, mutilated or be invalid.

5) No person (save for an Authorised Officer acting within the scope of his duties) shall sell or purchase or attempt to sell or purchase any ticket or transfer or receive or attempt to transfer or receive any partly-used ticket nor shall any Person knowingly use or attempt to use any ticket which has been sold, purchased, transferred or received in contravention of the foregoing provisions of this Byelaw.

6) In connection with any scheme for the provision of concessionary travel on the system, no Person shall: -

  1. make use of or attempt to make use of any concession provided for by such scheme except to the extent and for such time as he may be entitled so to do, subject to do, subject to the conditions of the scheme; or
  2. (being a person entitled to make use of any such concession) obtain or attempt to obtain the use of such concession for and on behalf of any other Person.

7 Where fares for journeys on the System vary dependent upon the time at which the ticket therefor is purchased, no Person shall make use of any ticket purchased at reduced fare outside any time constraints applicable thereto except to the extent authorised by the Conditions of Carriage.

 

 

THIS SECTION IS REPRODUCED FROM GMPTE CONDITIONS of CARRIAGE

 

 

FARES

4. The passenger is liable to make a prepayment or be in possession of a ticket or other authority to travel before making the intended journey.The prepaid fare for the journey is set out in GMPTE’s Official Fares Table, which is available for inspection at GMPTE Trading Office.

5. A passenger found to be on a Metrolink vehicle, or on a station platform having just alighted from a vehicle, without a ticket or pass or other approved authorisation to travel valid for his/her journey will be liable to pay a Standard Fare of up to £80 or such other amount as may be determined by Stagecoach Metrolink from time to time and may be liable to prosecution.

6. Stagecoach Metrolink operate an escalating standard fare policy, the number of offences committed determines the standard fare payable. Passengers may pay the Standard Fare immediately to Stagecoach Metrolink’s authorised officers. In this instance, passengers will benefit from a reduced rate and may continue their journey. Alternatively the passenger must pay the Standard Fare within 21 days of issue. In such circumstances the passenger will also be required to purchase a ticket for their onward journey. Payment of the Standard Fare should be sent by post to Customer Services at Stagecoach Metrolink the address is shown at the bottom of these Conditions. Alternative methods of payment are shown on the reverse of the Standard Fare Notice. Failure to pay the 4th offence at the time will result in legal proceedings being commenced in order to recover any outstanding debts.

 

GENERAL NOTES

A) These Conditions constitute a part of the contract which will exist between GMPTE and individual passengers wishing to travel on the Metrolink system.

B) These Conditions and Regulations may be altered without notice and

are without prejudice to:-

(i) The rights of passengers under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, or any statutory modification or re-enactment thereof, and (ii) The Byelaws relating to the Greater Manchester Metrolink System (hereinafter called ‘the Byelaws’, as enacted under the Greater Manchester (Light Rapid Transit System) Act 1988, and the Greater Manchester (Light Rapid Transit System) (Number 2) Act 1988, copies of which may be inspected at the office of GMPTE at 2 Piccadilly Place, Manchester, M1 3BG, or purchased from GMPTE at a price determined by GMPTE from time to time.

 

Now I have one important question for Matboo

 

Have you actually received an £80 penalty notice??

 

From reading their regulations, it seems that the £80 penalty is only applied where persons have had three previous warnings.

 

The scheme is not subject to 'The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994'

That only applies where specific authority is granted for railways meeting the criteria determined by DfT.

 

There is a reference to joint operation with the British Railways Board in the information above and although I haven't checked this bit, if some parts of the system run on former BR routes, it is likely the The Regulation of Railways Act 1889 could still provide the authority to prosecute any allegation of 'intent to avoid a fare'.

 

So far as the Byelaws are concerned, any allegation seems to be of a 'strict liability' offence.

 

If you can show evidence that the machine was broken and there was definitely no other machine or means of buying a ticket before boarding, you might get them to reduce their claim, but if not, and if you have had three previous warnings hence the £80 penalty, I think you would be best advised to pay up.

 

Hope that helps

Edited by Old-CodJA
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  • 1 year later...
Hi i need advice one the Metrolink which is run by GMPTE.

 

The GMPTE have there own rules an regulations of traveling on the trams called "Conditions of Carriage"

 

But do they also have to follow the "Regulations Of Railway Act"?

 

I was walking towards the platform and the tram was arriving so i ran to the ticket machine to try and get my ticket in time but the machine was broke, so i didn't have chance to purchase one from the automated machines so i was fined for not having a ticker on the tram, now the "conditions of carriage" rules set by GMPTE state...

 

A) These Conditions constitute a part of the contract which will exist

between GMPTE and individual passengers wishing to travel on the

Metrolink system.

 

4. The passenger is liable to make a prepayment or be in possession of a

ticket or other authority to travel before making the intended journey.

The prepaid fare for the journey is set out in GMPTE’s Official Fares

Table, which is available for inspection at GMPTE Trading Office.

 

5. A passenger found to be on a Metrolink vehicle, or on a station platform

having just alighted from a vehicle, without a ticket or pass or other

approved authorisation to travel valid for his/her journey will be liable to

pay a Standard Fare of up to £80 or such other amount as may be

determined by Stagecoach Metrolink from time to time and may be

liable to prosecution

 

Would i be covered by "

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994"

6 (2) a

 

 

But then couldnt the operator use the rule for bye-law from - Railways Act 1993, 129 (2)a

 

 

im stuck i dont want to pay my £80 fine!

 

grrr

they use byelaw 4.1.a just qoute 4.b.1 and 4.b.2 it states that as long as u have the intention to purchase the ticket and have the finances to purchase the ticket you win, they refused u the ability to purchase it. they should have reported the fault. i did this and the case was dismissed.
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metrolink prosecute under section 4.1.a. of the byelaws, if you google metrolink byelaws and scroll down to section 4.1.a you will also see the sections i mentioned, also google penalty fares laws it states that it also covers buses and trams, and that if any person is unable to purchase a ticket due to faulty machines or closed office they can not be charged penalty fares.

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as on the buses if the machine is faulty, the driver has to continue his route until a replacement machine is provided, and still stop at each bus stop and take on passengers waiting and they are legally allowed free transport as the fault is not theirs and they are excempt from any prosecution. my father worked for stagecoach for 30 years this is how i know the laws against penalty fares and when they can not be charged.

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I was walking towards the platform and the tram was arriving so i ran to the ticket machine to try and get my ticket in time but the machine was broke, so i didn't have chance to purchase one from the automated machines so i was fined for not having a ticker on the tram, now the "conditions of carriage" rules set by GMPTE state...
You say, on the one hand that you couldn't buy a ticjket as the machine was broken, yet on the other hand you also state that the Tram was already there or arriving, so you didn't have time to use the automated machine. What's the difference between the two?

 

The bottom line is, if there were no available ticket issuing facilities, and you have the funds to purchase a ticket, as long as you actually told the staf that this was the case (just saying "I ran for the tram" would indicate that you didn't check said facilities, so wouldn't actually know if they were out of service), then you should only have to purchase a ticket and not be issued with a Penalty Fare. If one of the machines was broken, yet the other one wasn't, whether you checked it or not, then unfortunately the Penalty Fare still stands. (unless there was a stupidly long queue, in which case there's specific conditions as to what is a reasonable time to have to wait I believe, before bording without a ticket.)

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