Would someone please check these Halifax docs?

[Pentax]

Hi all,

 

 

Not sure if this thread is still on-going, but here goes anyway

 

I began by reading the first 40 pages, or so, of the thread - by which time my head was starting to spin a bit.

 

Fast forwarding to recent posts, am I correct in thinking that the doubts expressed by some earlier posters about the effect of later amendments to the 1974 act have not been borne out?

 

i,e, that it *is* still possible to use the 1974 act to render a credit card agreement unenforceable if the CC company cannot produce a signed copy of the original agreement?

 

I have sent my CCA request to HBOS via special delivery, which they will receive today, thus starting the 12 day deadline. The account is not, and has never been, in default (yet)

 

I would appreciate clarification of one or two points, though.

 

What happens if they produce the agreement *after* 12 days, but *before* the end of the subsequent calander month? - I'm assuming that if they *do* have my agreement I've already lost because they could then produce it in any court proceedings and the court would uphold it, irrespective of whether any time limits were breached by the CC company?

 

If they *don't have it, I understand that we enter a stand-off situation? - where the debt still remains, but cannot be enforced by a court because no signed agreement can be produced?

 

If this is the case - can the CC company still register a default on the account if no further payments are forthcoming? - or does the absence of the signed agreement mean that, technically, there is no account to register as having been defaulted?

 

Finally, if there is no agreement, presumably I'm entitled to reclaim whatever I've paid them on the account - and that this amount can be used to set against the amount/s borrowed, thereby reducing or even eliminating any debt allegedly owed to them?

 

Sorry if all these points have already been answered - as stated, I have spent several hours ploughing through the thread, but it's very convoluted and I'd really appreciate an update on present forum thinking about the matter.

 

Many thanks

[davey77]

Hi all,

 

 

Not sure if this thread is still on-going, but here goes anyway

 

I began by reading the first 40 pages, or so, of the thread - by which time my head was starting to spin a bit.

 

Fast forwarding to recent posts, am I correct in thinking that the doubts expressed by some earlier posters about the effect of later amendments to the 1974 act have not been borne out?

My understanding is pre april 07 'dodgy' agreements are more likely (should it get to Court ) to be declared 'unenforceable'. Post April 07 can still have that result but it's a harder task. Still quote the CCA1974 tho whatever the date of your agreement. Others may be able to comment more on this.

 

i,e, that it *is* still possible to use the 1974 act to render a credit card agreement unenforceable if the CC company cannot produce a signed copy of the original agreement?

I hope so. That's what I've been doing for some time

 

I have sent my CCA request to HBOS via special delivery, which they will receive today, thus starting the 12 day deadline. The account is not, and has never been, in default (yet)

By my calculation they will be in Default 27th Feb if they don't supply an agreement by then. (Clock starts the day after they get it.)

 

I would appreciate clarification of one or two points, though.

 

What happens if they produce the agreement *after* 12 days, but *before* the end of the subsequent calender month? (Calendar month 'criminal offence' no longer applies as it was removed from the regulations. It's just the 12 + 2 days now) - I'm assuming that if they *do* have my agreement I've already lost because they could then produce it in any court proceedings and the court would uphold it, irrespective of whether any time limits were breached by the CC company?

I don't think time limits would give much weight to you argument if it got all the way to a Court room and would be seen as a minor point if the agreement was valid.

 

If they *don't have it, I understand that we enter a stand-off situation? - where the debt still remains, but cannot be enforced by a court because no signed agreement can be produced?

That's me then. 2 years stand-off and counting.

 

If this is the case - can the CC company still register a default on the account if no further payments are forthcoming? - or does the absence of the signed agreement mean that, technically, there is no account to register as having been defaulted?

Technically yes, but creditors ignore such trivial aspects as the production of a valid agreement enabling them to mess with your credit file. They usually do what they want (until you threaten them with Court action or actually start proceedings.)

 

There is an account (payments have been made etc) it's a question of the enforceability of that account and usually the only way to force the issue if through lengthy letter writing and/or Court Action.

 

For instance this thread. 'We don't have an agreement and cannot enforce it.. but we are going to Default you anyway.'

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/177986-unenforceable-loan.html

 

Shouldn't happen if they played fair but no creditor follows the rules.

Finally, if there is no agreement, presumably I'm entitled to reclaim whatever I've paid them on the account - and that this amount can be used to set against the amount/s borrowed, thereby reducing or even eliminating any debt allegedly owed to them?

That's an approach you would take and something i used in my L.B.A (letter before action) to cap1:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/171391-davey77-capital-one.html

 

 

Sorry if all these points have already been answered - as stated, I have spent several hours ploughing through the thread, but it's very convoluted and I'd really appreciate an update on present forum thinking about the matter.

 

Many thanks

 

No worries. Might want to start your own thread in the right forum for the creditor in question then you'll get more help.

[Pentax]

No worries. Might want to start your own thread in the right forum for the creditor in question then you'll get more help.

 

 

Thanks for a quick reply - what forum would be best?, I'm getting lost in the labyrinths of this site (but, then, I am a bear of very little brain )

 

It is a 2003 credit card agreement (Halifax)

 

One point you might be able to assist me with - I understand that if the do have a signed agreement, then all is lost. However, as the CC company can, apparently, supply an unsigned copy and *still* comply with my CCA request, how on erath do I find out whether they are keeping a signed copy up their sleeve in order to produce it in court?

 

I also read some posts which indicate that the creditors can get very snotty when they receieve a CCA request. Could they, for instance, suddenly decide the demand immediate repyament of the total outstanding (£13,000) as a punishment? - assuming that the *do* have a signed copy, of course (which, knowing my luck, they wil have )

 

It's a bit late to worry now, I suppose - but could they demand full repyament, even if the account was not in arrears?

 

Thanks

[davey77]

If you are talking about Halifax then this is the forum to post in:

 

Halifax Bank and Bank of Scotland - The Consumer Forums

 

You are entitled in law to see your credit agreement. Whether you have defaulted, late with payments, have a zero balance and never been late paying, are a millionaire or on benefits.

 

You are referring to s 78 of the CCA whereby a creditor can legally omit certain information. That's another story and probably skimming through my main thread will answer that:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/57846-debt-written-off-due.html

 

Yes they are allowed to do so but then you change your request to a copy of the full original agreement containing all the Prescribed Terms and Signatures.

Just because they comply with a CCA request doesn't mean they can enforce it as they would need to produce the signed copy in a Court Room (no matter what they supply you beforehand under the CCA).

 

It's unlikely they will demand the full amount just because you have CCA'd them and it's not something i would worry about at the mo.

[Pentax]

If you are talking about Halifax then this is the forum to post in:

 

Halifax Bank and Bank of Scotland - The Consumer Forums

 

You are entitled in law to see your credit agreement. Whether you have defaulted, late with payments, have a zero balance and never been late paying, are a millionaire or on benefits.

 

You are referring to s 78 of the CCA whereby a creditor can legally omit certain information. That's another story and probably skimming through my main thread will answer that:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/57846-debt-written-off-due.html

 

Yes they are allowed to do so but then you change your request to a copy of the full original agreement containing all the Prescribed Terms and Signatures.

Just because they comply with a CCA request doesn't mean they can enforce it as they would need to produce the signed copy in a Court Room (no matter what they supply you beforehand under the CCA).

 

It's unlikely they will demand the full amount just because you have CCA'd them and it's not something i would worry about at the mo.

 

Thanks again - I'll start a thread on the HBOS forum.

 

I'll also settle down to read your own saga a bit later - it doesn't look like a 'skim' thread

 

Actually, my reservations about punitive action by HBOS are because the the card is *with* HBOS - I've only been late with on payment, and they were on me like a Rotweiller on a burglar!

 

I always transfer payments from my non-HBOS internet bank account. I genuinely forgot on one occasions, and the payment to HBOS was received by them three days past the deadline.

 

On the third morning (while the payment was still negotiating their system) I received a fairly rude and quite aggressive telephone call from them, demanding to know when I was ' going to bring my account up to date'

 

I couldn't believe that a company could be *so* unpleasant over so short a payment delay - so I fully expect them to go completely ape over the CCA request (and to hit the proverbial roof if payments are subsequently withheld) Happily, they no longer have my phone number

[Pentax]

Hi, I posted this on the long running 'Company can't provide loan agreement' thread, and was advised to transfer it here - hope that's OK.

 

 

Hi all,

 

 

Not sure if this thread is still on-going, but here goes anyway

 

I began by reading the first 40 pages, or so, of the thread - by which time my head was starting to spin a bit.

 

Fast forwarding to recent posts, am I correct in thinking that the doubts expressed by some earlier posters about the effect of later amendments to the 1974 act have not been borne out?

 

i,e, that it *is* still possible to use the 1974 act to render a credit card agreement unenforceable if the CC company cannot produce a signed copy of the original agreement?

 

I have sent my CCA request to HBOS via special delivery, which they will receive today, thus starting the 12 day deadline. The account is not, and has never been, in default (yet)

 

I would appreciate clarification of one or two points, though.

 

What happens if they produce the agreement *after* 12 days, but *before* the end of the subsequent calander month? - I'm assuming that if they *do* have my agreement I've already lost because they could then produce it in any court proceedings and the court would uphold it, irrespective of whether any time limits were breached by the CC company?

 

If they *don't have it, I understand that we enter a stand-off situation? - where the debt still remains, but cannot be enforced by a court because no signed agreement can be produced?

 

If this is the case - can the CC company still register a default on the account if no further payments are forthcoming? - or does the absence of the signed agreement mean that, technically, there is no account to register as having been defaulted?

 

Finally, if there is no agreement, presumably I'm entitled to reclaim whatever I've paid them on the account - and that this amount can be used to set against the amount/s borrowed, thereby reducing or even eliminating any debt allegedly owed to them?

 

Sorry if all these points have already been answered - as stated, I have spent several hours ploughing through the thread, but it's very convoluted and I'd really appreciate an update on present forum thinking about the matter.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Pentax

[pinky1977]

Hi, I posted this on the long running 'Company can't provide loan agreement' thread, and was advised to transfer it here - hope that's OK.

 

 

Hi all,

 

 

Not sure if this thread is still on-going, but here goes anyway

 

I began by reading the first 40 pages, or so, of the thread - by which time my head was starting to spin a bit.

 

Fast forwarding to recent posts, am I correct in thinking that the doubts expressed by some earlier posters about the effect of later amendments to the 1974 act have not been borne out?

 

i,e, that it *is* still possible to use the 1974 act to render a credit card agreement unenforceable if the CC company cannot produce a signed copy of the original agreement?

 

I have sent my CCA request to HBOS via special delivery, which they will receive today, thus starting the 12 day deadline. The account is not, and has never been, in default (yet)

 

I would appreciate clarification of one or two points, though.

 

What happens if they produce the agreement *after* 12 days, but *before* the end of the subsequent calander month? - I'm assuming that if they *do* have my agreement I've already lost because they could then produce it in any court proceedings and the court would uphold it, irrespective of whether any time limits were breached by the CC company?

 

If they *don't have it, I understand that we enter a stand-off situation? - where the debt still remains, but cannot be enforced by a court because no signed agreement can be produced?

 

If this is the case - can the CC company still register a default on the account if no further payments are forthcoming? - or does the absence of the signed agreement mean that, technically, there is no account to register as having been defaulted?

 

Finally, if there is no agreement, presumably I'm entitled to reclaim whatever I've paid them on the account - and that this amount can be used to set against the amount/s borrowed, thereby reducing or even eliminating any debt allegedly owed to them?

 

Sorry if all these points have already been answered - as stated, I have spent several hours ploughing through the thread, but it's very convoluted and I'd really appreciate an update on present forum thinking about the matter.

 

 

hiya

i cant answer all your questions my husbands having trouble with his halifax too!!

 

i will tell you something they think their above the law and are in dispute with his account and will do whatever they want ie phone or default ,threaten etc...

there not aloud too but that doesnt stop them

 

i think what you have paid you cant claim you can only claim illegal charges back i believe

[Chris_w]

If the CC agreement is found they can begin to persue the debt at any time regardless of any time limits. If they breach the time limit, your only course of action is to report them to your local trading standards. Who will then promptly do nothing. They can't just go directly to court though! How would they explain to a DG that it has taken so long to produce an agreement? Also it is my belief that if they do have an agreement then they won't take their time producing it.

 

If they don't have it then yes, you both enter a stand off. They will (even though they are not entiled) put a default on your record, and it's a complete nightmare getting it taken off.

 

you can't just reclaim any amounts paid on the account! If for instance it goes to court how would you explain reclaiming monies paid in respect of borrowing that amount in the first place. I believe though that you don't technically owe them any interest, because that interest forms part of the agreement that is unenforcable.

 

Also charges form part of that agreement, so you can reclaim them.

 

then all thats left is to get them to write off the rest of the debt, or come to a mutual full and final settlement figure. But that default will be a nightmare to get rid of.

[Pentax]

Still waiting for a response to my CCA request - but odd things are happening

 

Two cheques (so far) totalling about £300 from BOS in respect of 'incorrectly calculated' settlement figures on old loan agreements.

 

The payments are in respect of loans that ended several years ago - no further details, no account numbers, just a couple of nice cheques

 

So - has my CCC request woken them up? are the auditors in?, has there been an outbreak of conscience at BOS HQ?

 

I'm not complaining - and I had other agreements with them that might yield further surprise payouts - but it's a bit disheartening in one respect as they obviously do keep some records

 

Sod's law says that they've also got my CC agreement.....

[underdog13]

Think hell will freeze over before they develop a conscience;)

 

Think positive, perhaps your luck is changing; first unexpected cheques, then, even if they do have your agreement, it may be unenforceable - fingers crossed for you:)

[Pentax]

Hi,

 

Credit card agreement, commenced 2003, no arrears (yet) 13K balance

 

The 12 day CCA deadline for a response from HBOS to my CCA rquest & £1 PO payment (sent special delivery) has now expired (Sunday) and no response has been received from them.

 

So, they are now in default?

 

I understand that they have a further 30 days to comply - should I write to them at this stage claining an account default and withholding any further repayments?

 

I ask because between now and the 30 day dealine, a monthly repayment will become due - and, presumably, if the account is in default HBOS will not be able to levy any penalty charges if I don't make the payment?

 

Thanks for any advice

[millymollymoo]

Hi pentax:)

 

Its just the 12 days + 2 for posting now not 30.

 

Second step is to send this template letter:

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Remember, print your name, don't sign.

 

 

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Omit this bit :

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

[Pentax]

Thanks Milly - what happened to the 30 days? What happens if they produce the signed agreement withing thirty days (or at any time in the future)? - I suppose that means that the agreement is back on again?

 

Interesting point about the signature. I was actually on my way to post a signed CCA request when I suddenly realised that an unscrupulous lender (not HBOS, naturally!) might stoop to forging an agreement if the originall signed copy was nowhere to be found.

 

Probably just my suspicious mind

 

However, I decided to return home, reprint the letter, and get a family member to sign it (who has a entirely different signature than mine)

 

So, f a document bearing the relatives signature should mysteriously turn up......wel....

 

Thanks for your help and support - although I might sound a bit jokey about this, I'm actually very worried. I've never defaulted on a loan before, and HBOS has a lot more resources than I have - so forums like this can provide a lot more than just legal advice (vital though it is) , people giving common support to each is also extremely important.

 

Cheers.

[millymollymoo]

Hi Pentax:)

 

Regarding the signature-it has been known that signatures have been 'lifted' so it always best not to give them the chance;)

 

You do not have to stop your payments at all and as you are worried suggest that you wait and see what turns up from the letter you have just posted as the threat of not paying seems to gee them up a bit! If after your next payment they have sent nothing or the cca turns out to be unenforceable then take it from there okay:)

 

Remember you are not alone on here as there is lots of help available.

 

milly XX

[Pentax]

Hi Pentax:)

 

Regarding the signature-it has been known that signatures have been 'lifted' so it always best not to give them the chance;)

 

You do not have to stop your payments at all and as you are worried suggest that you wait and see what turns up from the letter you have just posted as the threat of not paying seems to gee them up a bit! If after your next payment they have sent nothing or the cca turns out to be unenforceable then take it from there okay:)

 

Remember you are not alone on here as there is lots of help available.

 

milly XX

 

 

Thanks Milly - not feeling alone in this sort of thing is very important to me (and, I suspect, to most people)

 

I'm curious about the 'lifted' signatures - presumably, it would be difficult to prove?

 

I had wondered about the wisdom of sending *any* signed letter - even signed by a relative with a completely different style.

 

On the other hand, if loan companies are prepared to forge, then they might well be sharing authentic signatures between themselves - even if on an 'unofficial' basis.

 

If that was the case, my letter with the 'wrong' signature might well head 'em off at the pass - if they have no signed document to compare it to, and there is a 'wrong' one at their disposal, they might well not go to the bother of looking for a signature from another loan or company and use the one provided for them.

 

If that happens it will be an easily provable forgery - and the ramifications for them would be extremely interesting.

 

Perhaps I'm just allowing my paranoia free reign - but, as you say, forging Sig's is not unknown, and when incorporated into a scan they would be hard to detect. Giving themselves 'a little Xtra help, perhaps?

 

I certainly felt uneasy enough about the whole thing to return home, reprint the CCA letter, and then get a relative to supply their own moniker.

 

All this might be academic, however, as Howard and his dancing partners don't seem to be sending me anything at all, so far....

 

I've printed the 'notice of dispute' letter and will send it off in a couple of days, putting them firmly outside the response time period. Then I'll just have to see whether they can stop singing and dancing enough to dig out the agreement

 

Thanks again for your support!

[Pentax]

I'm a bit curious about the motivation of those who, like myself, are taking on the banks and loan companies - and, in particular, HBOS.

 

Obviously, the bottom line is money - or the lack of it but I wondered if anyone else felt that there are wider issues involved.

 

In my case, I have to admit that I greatly dislike Halifax/BOS.

 

I've had my credit card for six years and have never missed a single monthly repayment - but one one occasion last year I genuinely forgot to cough up in time for the money to reach them on the due date.

 

The payment was, in fact, three days late in reaching them - and on the third day (even while the payment was negotiating their own system) I received an extremely aggressive telephone call from an African gentleman who worked in the HBOS collections department.

 

Frankly, I was stunned that they could be so rude and aggressive over a payment that was only three days late - but they were, and that was when I realised just what sort of company I had been dealing with.

 

Fast forward to last November.... HBOS defied falling interest rates by peremptorily increasing my APR by nearly 50%! - and that on an account that (one late payment aside) was exemplary.

 

When I rang them to complain they were almost contemptuously dismissive - and, as they pointed out, 'it was in the terms and conditions'

 

Well, it might be in the terms & conditions (dunno yet, they haven't sent me my CCA ) but it's immoral! Base rates at the lowest level since the Bank of England was founded - and these scoundrels add 50% to my interest to help cover the losses they made through their own incompetence!

 

That was when I decided that if contract law could enable them to enrich themselves after virtually destroying the national economy, then I would also seek to use the same weapons against them.

 

I wonder just how many customers who have formerly paid on time (even if they could barely afford to do so) have been driven to say, "enough is enough - you screwed me, you screwed my country - now I'm going to seek a way to screw you"

 

And, of course, all noble sentiments aside, it will be nice not to pay 'em

[davey77]

I think most people (95%) like myself have only gone online looking for help because they are being constantly harassed and ignored and at their wits end: 30 phone calls a day etc

 

Most have no idea about the CCA or what OFT stands for let alone what to ask the creditor in connection with a CCA request etc (Myself included when i started 2 yrs ago.)

 

The difference being lately, in my respect, with Amex, who increased my ARP from 13% to 18%. Upon stating this was unfair (after never having any trouble with the card) then immediately withdrew cash access at ATMs and slashed the credit limit by 4k. I can assume this was because i dared to question their authority?!

 

I have since used my knowledge gleaned from this site and sent a CCA request. I am not belligerent or a 'can pay won't pay'. In fact i am still paying towards the card and may even do so even if they fail to produce an agreement!

I just demand respect and to be treated fairly. Consequently i may have to use the Law of the Land (depending on what the response is to the CCA eventually and upon other commitments) to exercise my lawful rights. (This could be construed by some as teaching Amex a lesson for not being courteous.. so be it.)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/amex/184309-davey-amex.html

[davey77]

I use a digital Signature

 

Online Personal Signature Maker - MyLiveSignature - Free Personal Signature Generator

Edited February 25, 2009 by davey77
adding link

[Pentax]

Thanks in advance -

 

Just to recap:

 

Have one Halifax CC, taken out in 2003, no other loans or agreements with HBOS.

 

I applied for my CCA, just received what they assure me is a copy of the 'executed agreement'

 

They go on to state that they have provided all the information they need to meet the requirements of Section 78.

 

The docs are certainly not copies of originals, they seem to have been just typed up and have no company logo, no dates, and no signatures of either party.

 

Further, they sent two copies (which I have uploaded as 'Document One' & 'Document Two' - both were 8 pages long, which will probably be too much to clog up this site with, so I have uploaded them to a Pbase account - please click on the thumbnails to view the large image.

 

Oddly, although purporting to be the same agreement, the interest rates differ, and one of them mentions 'cash price of goods', as if referring to an HP agreement or similar.

 

As stated, I have only ever had one Halifax CC agreemnt

 

Anyway, here is everything I received from HBOS - am I correct in assuming that they have not complied with the CCA request?

 

Finally - how can I be sure that they are not keeping a properly signed agreement up their sleeves? (unlikely, I suppose - but best to be ready for them)

 

Would a SAR (I think that's what you call it) compel them to produce *every* document relating to the account, including a signed agreement if they do have it somewhere?

 

Many thanks for taking the trouble to check out the docs and giving advice.

 

 

CCA RESONSE FROM HBOS:

 

halifax_documents Photo Gallery by Lastlight at pbase.com

[djc]

welcome pentax we share a very similar dilemma.

 

i also have credit card with halifax taken out may 2003. having compared your documents to those i also received i can confirm that they are almost an identicle copy however the interest rates are quite different.

 

for your understanding i engaged a solicitor to review/ audit this halifax credit card and can confirm that after 'expert review they came out of that audit squeaky clean. this was due to halifax stating in there correspondence same as in yours that is they do not have to produce exact copy of original. what a load of old tosh and guess what our solicitors rolled over refused to go any further.

 

a few facts that we believe have been totally ignored, now follows( suggest you might like to check your own)

 

our agreement taken out may 2003

jan 2007 a/c no changed with no communication from halifax

at no time have terms and conditions changed ie we have not received any.

we therefore wonder how on earth can an expert audit a random piece of paper that is neither dated or signed and certainly does not contain anything from halifax card services,that identifies it.

 

you may ask where do we both go from hear i personnally am in the process of engaging another solicitor that will insist on the original agreement prior to audit. it is 90% in our favour that halifax are without it.

 

good luck in your endeavor for justice

 

djc

[lee32uk]

I received similar 'agreements' from Halifax.I have sent them a dispute letter (see thread below)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/185710-lee32uk-halifax-one-credit.html

[djc]

have a look at this thread by whilst it is incomplete well worthy of analysis

 

Sticky: why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement(6 Viewing) ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

pt2537

 

you will find this post under legal issues

 

djc

[Pentax]

Lee & djc, thanks for your replies.

 

I've read every post in the thread that djc recommended, and find it fairly discouraging - but it also contains some wise advice about proceeding with caution.

 

I've given the matter some serious thought.

 

Lee, your response from HBOS is indeed identical to mine (except that they had the courtesy to address you by your name - I have been downgraded to just 'Dear Sir/Madam )

 

Obviously, what we both want is proof (or as near to 'proof') as we can get) that they don't have a properly executed & signed copy of the agreement tucked away somewhere.

 

Getting it, however, looks like being rather trickier than I anticipated - an anticipation, i might add, that was encouraged by the more optimistic threads CAG (many of them earlier ones) that appear to beckon us all down a sunny, easy to tread, pathway that leads to solvency simply by telling our creditors, "You don't have an enforceable agreement, please go away"

 

The thread referenced by djc, however, shows that it's not going to be as easy as that - and can lead to a dark world of property charging orders, creditors pursuing these 'unenforceable' agreements to court and *still* persuading DJ's to rule in their favour!

 

Obviously, the banks are now fighting back - and I would argue that it wouldn't be a bad idea for CAG to delete (or at least mark with an advisory notice) some of the earlier threads that seem to indicate that proving an unenforceable debt is going to be a breeze.

 

Whether it was easier in the past, I don't know, but it seems pretty difficult now - and lot of people could get into a lot of trouble if they proceed on the basis of some of the more up-beat threads.

 

I'm certainly not giving up - but I'm going to be rather more cautious about my approach.

[pussycatdoll]

Today I have received a set of originals almost identical to the ones in the previous posts.

 

This is obviously a ploy by Halifax to put us off proceeding any further. What they have actually sent is not a credit agreement at all but the conditions of use pertaining to your card when it was issued and a copy of the current terms and conditions.

 

In fact it is a completely concocted document as mine has the incorrect address details having moved 3 years after taking out the card and its now showing my new address. I am going to have troll through the threads to see if I can find a copy of what I likely signed to see if its unenforceable or not

 

Then I shall make a decision.