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Me vs (Un) Co-operative Bank


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I CCA'd the C-op back in October 2008, sent a further request after 30 days and to date have received nothing from them bar demands for payment from their debt collection dept as well as endless phone calls - none of which I answer. Everything was, of course, sent recorded delivery. Then a pink postcard appeared through the door, hand-delivered, from Power2contact telling me they would be sending someone round for a chat.

 

I wrote the following letter to the Co-op in response, using information gleaned from this excellent forum but have today received another letter from Power2contact stating that if I don't contact the Co-op within three working days blah blah they will send someone round. Should I send them a copy of my letter to the Co-op? And, as the Co-op seem to be entirely ignoring my requests and I feel harassed, should I now complain to the OFT?

 

Letter to the Co-op:

 

I refer to your letter of 7th February and to the communication I received this morning stating that the Cooperative Bank has instructed Power2contact to visit me at my home address within the next ten days. For your ease of reference, I enclose a copy of my letter of 21st January 2009 which clearly proves that I have made repeated formal requests for a true signed agreement of this alleged account. To date I have received no such agreement.

In summary, this means that you have not produced a document that could be enforced by a court under s127(3) of the CCA 1974 and neither have you complied with your obligations under s78(1). In fact, you have committed an offence under s78(6) of the Act.

This account, therefore, remains in dispute.

 

As this account is in dispute and you were aware of this and are continuing to carry out collection activity, I now feel that you are in breach of your obligations under The Office of Fair Tradings Collection Guidelines – s2.8:

“i. failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued”

“k. not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.”

As such, I must ask you to take notice that you must cease all collection activity with immediate effect. You have failed to produce a properly executed credit agreement and as such I dispute the entire balance of the alleged debt is unenforceable. As there is no agreement between us, you also do not have permission to continue to contact me regarding this account, either by post or by personal contact, be that by telephone or visits to my property. In fact, OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction from the Court.

 

I also deem any further collection activity, of any nature that involves contacting me in relation to this account, an act of personal harassment, for the reasons outlined in this letter. Please ensure that your system is updated to reflect this, as I will bring any further letters or phone calls to the attention of the Police.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by calling me, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded and used as evidence in any further formal complaint.

 

If you wish to resolve this dispute you must supply the documentation previously requested to substantiate your claims against me under the alleged agreement. Failure to do so will result in my ignoring any further letters from you and the actions outlined herein being taken in complaint against you. I will not correspond further with you regarding this issue unless you can fully substantiate your claim as I have outlined.

 

Yours sincerely,

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Send this one to Power2notdomuch as well:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

Print do not sign your name

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have finally received documents from the Co-op which are barely legible. From what I can read of the agreement, it does not state the amount of credit and therefore does not comply with the required prescribed terms. As the other document is illegible I cannot find other necessary info - is there not a requirement for copies supplied to be legible? And does this agreement stand up? Thanks!

 

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp305/bdg_bucket/Co-op1.jpg

 

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp305/bdg_bucket/Co-op2.jpg

 

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp305/bdg_bucket/Co-op3.jpg

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They must send you a legible copy and until such times as they do, they are in default of your request.

 

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible “

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You can use this letter (add bits or take bits away) if you wish:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

xx/xx/2009

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter-dated xx/xx/2009 the contents of which are noted.

 

I note that you have included a copy of the document, which you aver to be the copy of the credit agreement between us

 

Now I wish to draw your attention to a series of concerns that I have with that document and why I feel that you have not discharged your duties under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The document received is headed “xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx” within this first there are no prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 SI 1983/1553.

 

To avoid any argument, the prescribed terms for this style of agreement (running account credit) are as follows

 

1. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit,

 

2. A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement

 

3. A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Now im sure you are aware as per Wilson & FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 among others that if the prescribed terms are not in the agreement then the agreement is rendered unenforceable

 

 

To be honest I cannot tell as its not legible, infact even when blown up on the pc it is not legible and as a consequence I believe that the document fails to comply with Regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

For your information, I reproduce regulation 2(1) for your reference

 

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1)The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

Clearly as the document you have supplied is not easily legible you cannot say that you have discharged your obligations under section 78(1) as the document does not comply with the copy document regs referred to above

Now to quote your own words from paragraph 3 of your letter “this means in effect as long as the terms are clearly shown, the CCA requirements are satisfied” well im sorry but they are not as the second part of this document that you supplied in reply to my CCA request is not clearly legible

 

Now to resolve this matter you can either supply me a copy of my agreement, which is in a legible form where all the terms are clearly stated and the prescribed terms are embodied within the agreement

 

Or alternatively, we can lay the agreement which you have produced in reply to my statutory request pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 before the county court and I will request pursuant to section 142(1) of the CCA that the court make an order on the enforceability of that document.

 

However I am sure that the bank would not be keen on this happening as should the court rule that the agreement is not enforceable and you cannot provide a better copy than what you already have then the court would have no other option but to rule the agreement unenforceable

 

I think I have set out my position clearly and have even reproduced excerpts of the legislation on which I base my case, therefore I respectfully request that you reply to this letter within 14 days setting out if you can supply a more legible copy of the agreement or what action you propose to resolve this dispute if you cannot although the only real obvious option if you cannot provide a better copy would be for the bank to zero the balance on this debt as it cannot be enforced without a truly legible signed credit agreement containing the required prescribed terms

 

 

I await your reply

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  • 8 months later...

Having heard nothing from the un-Cooperative Bank for months I have now received a default notice from them and a letter stating they have cancelled my card. All somewhat bizarre given my previous correspondence with them and their failure to produce a valid CCA.

 

As they are now phoning again constantlyand threatening legal action, what can/should I do next please?

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Sounds good but what I really want to deal with is them defaulting me and the possible legal action. I'm fine with ignoring their calls but want them to comply with their legal obligations (which they apparently can't). Is there a template letter I can use to get them off my back in this situation and to deal with the (I believe) illegal default?

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I personally would get the stress removed first by taking the calls out of the picture

 

it means a whole lot when they can't intimidate you on the phone

 

I have had to deal with these eejits myslef,and I'm on the cusp of taking a CRA to court because of dodgy default entries on my file

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Thank you - I searched only this evening and found your thread. Am still reading through it but v.interesting! I will check the DN which arrived weeks late thanks to the postal strikes. Not sure how I stand on that one in law.

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gribzig,

 

Without it being late due to the postal strikes you can rest asured it still will not comply.

 

I have had a few from the co-op and none complied with the date and time of service issue.

 

Even after me bringing there ways to their attention they still do it unbelievable.

 

PF

Finally if you succeed with your claim please consider a donation to consumer action group as those donations keep this site alive.

 R.I.P BOB aka ROOSTER-UK you have always been a Gent on these boards and you will be remembered for that.

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if they have failed to provide you with a valid CCA, then they themselves are in default of the account. as such they can not default you whilst they themselfs are in default on the account. So even if the DN they sent you was valid it would still be invalid due to the point above. As they are in default, they are in breach of the consumer credit act for selling it on along with being in breach OFT guidelines. if they have sold it then its unlawful termination of contract aswell, in which they would be liable to pay you damages of upto £1000 if you took them to court and were successful, which you would be.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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Thank you - that is very interesting. Does it apply in all cases where a debt has been sold on? It's happened in a couple of my other cases where a valid CCA has not been supplied but the debt still sold on. In each instance, I have replied with the letter supplied on this site and it has done the trick for a while. Then the original credit card company simply sells it on to someone else and the whole farce starts all over again.

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yes its the same for all. no credit or debt collection company may sell or pass on an account/debt while in dispute or when they are in default. doing so is a breach of OFT guidlines and section 78 subsection 6 and i believe section 127 of the consumer credit act 1974, plus the data potection act for unlawfully passing on your data. Same if they failed to issue valid default notices (which they can not issue such notices while they themselfs are in default), and terminating account without a valid default notice is unlawful termination of the credit agreement.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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