GBZSTRO Vs HSBC (multiple accounts)

[Wickerman]

When you received your statements from HSBC and saw the Total Charges for each month, did you break these down yourself to seperate the normal business banking charges (account maintenance, automated credits etc) from the unlawful penalties, or just claim whatever figure was against Total Charges?

[gbzstro]

In a nutshell – the total charges!

The HSBC has not provided me with a breakdown of the charges (as Requested), just TOTAL CHARGES.

I agree that there will be some account maintenance, automated credits etc included in his amount. Now that we are at the MCOL stage it is up to the HSBC to defend the claim and I am planning on them providing a complete breakdown of all the charges – including how much it actually costs for a late payment, excess OD fees etc. the bank must provide this information not only to my satisfaction but as well as the judge in order to reduce the claim.

History has shown that they will not do this, but I am expecting my claim to go to the very wire.

As it happens (I have two business accounts) on account B, which was just used as a collections / payments for a web site there was little money coming in or going out – it went OD by £30 and was then charged £25 per transaction! So I £10 was paid in - £25 was deducted with the net result being -£15 to the account.

Also they charged £4 per day for each day (as a management charge) that it was over drawn – Due to automated computer bank charges this soon mounted up and sent the account £1200 over drawn! – this I paid off a 2 months ago to bring the account back into credit.

The HSBC has to provide me details evidence of how much all this actually cost them.

Worst case is that my claim is reduced or I am countersued – if they go for the counter sue then they will have to disclose – this they will not do!

[gbzstro]

Not too much to report…

 

My two MCOL claims have been acknowledged by the infamous Deborah D’ Aubney of DG solicitors (I have received notice of such via first class post)

HSBC intend to defend both claims in full.

28 days after the date of Service is the 16th October and the 18th October…

 

What happens next ??? do I just sit it out an await the post??

When will I expect my AQ or a letter from DG - does anyone know ??

[leebrannan]

HI GBZSTRO, i took your advice about asking for compound interest when claiming against MBNA and got a great result, thanks. I've got another claim going now against Morgan Stanley, i was just wondering if you knew how i can work the compound interest out for myself (can't see MS being as helpful as MBNA). The claim is for £875 and obviously i want to get as much as possible out of them which judging by my last claim, compound interest is the best way to go. If i can't find out how to work it out then i shall just have to go with the 8% at the moneyclaim stage, but i'd love to squeeze everything i can out of them.

 

cheers

lee

[gbzstro]

Still nothing from HSBC or DG - DG have acklowaged both my claims but so far no defence has been entered. Oh well just 14 days left for DG to do so....

[gbzstro]

Still nothing to report! no defence has been entred and I have just a few days left on both of my claims before I win by default. I am wondering if DG will enter a defence at the VERY last moment now...

[gbzstro]

Some advice required here…

Today I received two letters for DG – each requesting a breakdown of charges on my two claims. This I am happy to supply but I might delay sending it for a day or two…

On Monday I can request Judgment on one claim and Wednesday the other. DG have acknowledged both claims but have not as yet filed a defense (I know that they could do so at any time including Monday and Wednesday.)

So what is my best plan? – send off the schedule of charges (Monday) and enter a judgments if they don’t defend.

Or send off both schedules of charges on Thursday ???

 

I have already sent a schedule of charges to the court!

[doryphor]

just a note to leebrannan - check out mindzai's signature- it has a spreadsheet for working out compound interest if going for contractual interest rather than 8% - with 15.9% for HSBC and 29.8% for LLoyds you can be sure I'm going for contractual!!

[lateralus]

just answered you on traceyrmj thread, good luck, you are nearly there - was where you are about 2 weeks ago - now suffering withdrawal pains from cag and trying to get a life!

[gbzstro]

I am still not sure what to do right now??

 

File for judgment tomorrow or leaving the judgement and send DG the required schedules (hopeing that they will entre a defence) - DG have acknowlaged already so no excuse that they did not get the paper work.

[lateralus]

i think - file for judgment tomorrow and send your breakdown to dg registered mail, then on wed. file for the other and send your breakdown to dg for that one. it's all stalling tactics. you will most likely not be able to file as they will have defended, but whether they have or not - what's the harm in sending your breakdowns to dg, then, if they have defended, bet, just like me and most everyone else - between the defense and before you have to send in the aq, you will receive first an 80% offer (more or less), you say only as a partial or you will be forced to continue your claim and before the aq is due, they offer 100%. if by chance, you have slipped under the radar and you get to apply for a judgment, so much the better - what's the harm in sending your breakdown - just keeps everything ticking over. let us know what you do.

[gbzstro]

Thanks - the support is VERY welcome at this stage

 

I have prepared two letters containing schedules – one dated the 16th October and one dated the 18th October which will be posted on “Judgment Day” so they will receive the day after posting – if they enter a defense at the last minute (which I think that they will do) then at least my paperwork will be on route – if judgment is granted then I have not anything anyway.

But…. I have just tried to request Judgment at 00:10 on the 16th October and MCOL wont let me ..

 

Have I got my Dates wrong??

Served on the 18th September + 28 Days = 16th October which is Today!!

 

I guess that I have to wait until midnight tonight now to request Judgment – I will hold off posting the letters now until Tuesday – but if a defense is entered then I will post them straight away…

Not much of a plan I know!

[gbzstro]

Yep I think that today is the 28th day - I have to wait until tonight in order to request judgement.

[gbzstro]

DG have now filed a defence - right on the last day - so I will now post off the schedule of charges as requested. I guess that I have to wait for the A.Q. now....

[lateralus]

this is when all the action started on mine - about another week and you should get your first offer. you say you#ll accept it as partial but your claim will continue. then, just before the next 14 days is up - you'll probably get a letter with the defence, the aq and a transfer to your local court - then the important date is the deadline on the letter for filing the aq. also about that same time, you should get another offer from dg offering the full amount.

 

have they defended against the second claim as well? if not, they probably will before wed. and yes, i think it is probably after midnight on the 28th day or morning of the 29th day that you could request judgment but those crafty devils seem to file at the last minute every time. just follow the gameplan.

keep us updated.........

[gbzstro]

No defence on the second claim - I do expect this to occur on Wednesday - Therfore I have posted off both schdule of charges and will phone them tomorrow to ensure that they have recived them... It is time to chase them up now !

 

What is the next 14 day deadline then ??

[gbzstro]

I have the bit between my teeth tonight..

 

Today I have received copy’s of both defenses in both my casea . The wording for both the business and personal account is EXACTLY the same as follows:-

 

Defense

1) The Claimant account is governed by the Defendant’s personal banking terms and conditions.

2) Pursuant to the Defendant’s terms and conditions the Defendant is entitled to make a charge for its services as set out in the Defendant’s price list.

3) It is denied that the fees charged for the service provided amount to a penalty or liquidated damages clause. The fees are an agreed price for a service provided by the Claimant.

Also included was both allocation questionnaires – both must be submitted by 4th November as at a cost of £100 each. I will be posting both of them off (Thursday 18th October ) along with the £100 + £100 fees.

 

Next action points….

 

Any points to pick apart from HSBC’s defense?

 

This is my section G text that I will include on my allocation questionnaires for both of my claims.

 

“I believe that this case will last no longer than 1 hour.

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track as this issue is not a complicated one. It is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

However, the continuing problem is that the Defendants refusal to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the Defendant have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith. Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track and order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. and I believe this would

bring a rapid end to this litigation.”

 

If / when my claim is settled then HSBC have just lost £200 – why do they not enter in dialogue after my prelim and LBA letters....

[lateralus]

of course it's all up to you, but why the rush on the a.q.'s. they won't rush - and they have the same deadline as you. remember what i wrote earlier, this is when it all starts - you've sent your breakdown - i predict an offer within one week - you accept as partial but let them know you are working to a deadline and will have to file your a.q.'s if you haven't had an acceptable response from them (and the only acceptable is 100%), they will hem and haw around another week - then call them and say - gee, my deadline is looming....etc. bet you won't even have to file the a.q.'s... just give it a bit november is a long ways away by dg standards and they seem to function just under the wire. keep the faith, you are nearly there...

[lateralus]

gbzstro,

anything new going on???????????????????

also, was reading neil faulkner's claim progress on the motley fool site and he has some funny stuff to say about their defence, here's the link: My Ongoing Bank Charges Saga - 28/09/2006 - The Motley Fool UK

just wondering how you are getting on.

[gbzstro]

Indeed there has been some news – I received the “can you send us the breakdown of your charges letter”, one for each account – so I forward the schedules as requested.

A week goes by and I get a offer for 95% on my personal account – which I reject!!

Today I have been made an offer of the full 100% on the personal account – which I will accept on Monday.

Thing is, there has not been a squeak! over the business accounts at all – I resent the schedule on this again last Wednesday (highlighting the current daily interest amount )

So good news !!!

£3.5K better off – but still waiting for the £5K offer from the business account.

My A.Q. deadline is Friday 4th so I will just push ahead with this ..

[lateralus]

most excellent news, i had been thinking it was about time we heard something postitive on your case. as for the bus. acct., i don't have any experience there at all -but from the reading i've been doing here - looks to me as if they drag those feet a bit heavier and longer on the bus. accts. As you have now the perfect opportunity to gee them along, think i'd call on monday to say you will be accepting the offer (totally unnecessary but a good excuse) and ask about the other one - saying something like "i'm sure you don't want this one to slip by and thus incur more charges when i file my a.q." - even if you just get voice mail, at least you may have "bumped" it up to the top of the pile.

Anyway - congrats. on the offer!!!!!! i love a good story to start my sunday!

[gbzstro]

OK - good news - £3514 now returned back to me for my personel accoutns claim - so i am happy right now.

 

however... nothing from DG on the business accounts - they have reqested a breakdown but that was three ago now - I sent a follow up brakedown one week ago (to show how the 8% day charges were being added on).

 

If I hear nothing this weekend then I will send another letter and another and another... until they responed. My AQ in in!! so I am just watingt for a court date now...

[the_final_straw]

Hi gbzstro,

 

I've been reading your thread with great interest. I'm in an almost indentical position regarding my HSBC business account.

 

I have requested and received my statements under SAR

 

Apart from the odd 'DD recall' and 'cheque bounced' (which appear on the statement with that wording) everything else is lumped into "TOTAL CHARGES" I understand and accept some of these charges are going to be legitimate business a/c charges, but I have no way of breaking them down!

 

The account received lots of small payment using their merchant banking for which I pay seperate fees - switch, maestro, visa, terminal rental etc. etc. (I have no problem with these charges) the thought that they might have charged me £25.00 to accept a merchant payment or cheque for £7.00 has really made my blood boil

 

Could you tell me how your worded your letter to the bank to ask for the breakdown on "TOTAL CHARGES" ?

 

Some of my "TOTAL CHARGES" range up to £500

 

Thanks in advance.

 

P.S. any update on the business a/c yet?