Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Birmingham council are wrong.   However, you probably left yourself open to this problem by not changing the keep details.  You should do this now.   Also are there any other lurking problems which could come up and bit you?  You should make proper arrangements to redirect post or to inform creditors etc. This is the kind of scenario where you end up getting backdoor CCJs which then become difficult to deal with
    • What do I need to send on SAR? Do you have an email from them ?    I have 1 year with them .  I ve been made some international transactions because I ve been buy a car and a house I was need to send monthly money . I m a self employed, so I earn my money by myself . I didnt do nothing wrong with them . When I open my account I let them know that I m self employed and I can prove that .   I m in a desperate situation as I m not having any money for my company that I just open to can run 
    • Birmingham City Council,  told me because the car is on my name I am responsible  for it and I can't have anyone take the blame.  
    • Send them on SAR immediately. Do it today. Read up on this forum and elsewhere on the Internet about crifas. How long have you had the account? Have you been having large sums of money going in or out recently – especially paid in cash? This kind of unexplained behaviour generally relates to something that triggers a suspicion that your account is being used for money laundering or some other kind of fraud. If that's what has happened then you will find it almost impossible to get information about it and also almost impossible to find out when your account might be made available to you. If a CIFAS marker has been applied to your account, the bank takes upon itself absently Draconian powers and you will scarcely even get any assistance from the FOS who quite frankly are simply a poodle to the financial services sector
    • In addition to dealing with the individual problems that this person is creating for you, you obviously need to deal with it holistically because there is a problem of identity fraud which may well continue and will certainly affect you and your family throughout your lives. Nobody should underestimate the seriousness of this kind of thing. Although people will commonly apply the label of "identity theft", what you are actually dealing with here is "identity fraud" and it is well understood in academic circles. The police were quite wrong to say that there was nothing they could do. I'm afraid that this reflects under-resourcing coupled with poor staff development and a poor attitude. There are offences being committed here and the girl herself is committing fraud contrary to sections 1(2a), & 2 of the Fraud Act 2006  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents   Of course the police will find it very difficult to do anything and given their resources, I suppose they have other priorities. However, you could be certain that if your family was related to the head of the local police force, they would be dealing with it PDQ. You say that this has been going on for a number of years – but you don't say how long. Maybe you had better give us a detailed account of what has happened. Please set out in a bullet pointed chronology so that we don't have too much narrative but a good structured idea of what has happened. This should include a list of the problems which have occurred and how they have been dealt with and also complaints which you have attempted to make. You definitely need to start taking this very seriously. How old is your daughter? In terms of opening mail, you should open every letter that comes to you and if you find that it is associated with this fraud, then you should photocopy it/scan it into a computer and start building up a file. I hope you have kept some of the correspondence and other documents which you might have received. Please let us know what you have. You are definitely going to have to start accumulating a robust file of evidence and I suggest that the first thing you do is you start sending SARs out to all of the organisations which have been involved and see if you can tease out of them any personal data that they might have which is apparently linked to you. Either they will provide you with a statutory disclosure – or, of course, it will be amusing if they say that they are more proof of your identity and that they won't let you have the disclosure because they are not satisfied that the data they have relates to you. I don't think you're in a position to make any serious complaint until you have put together a convincing file of evidence which shows that there is systematic identity fraud. We will help you to start to do this and help you to structure the file that you will put together and then we can begin to explore avenues to make a complaint. It also occurs to me that they could be a basis here for making a complaint under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 although this would be an unusual application of the act – but we can have a look when you put together your file.  
  • Our picks

Bones v MBNA


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2694 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

My OH has 2 accounts with MBNA which have now gone into arrears.

 

Letters sent by recorded delivery have gone to MBNA.

 

We have received some paperwork for one of the accounts.

 

Could someone please have a look and advise if this is enforceable?

 

The T&C appear to be recent ones as they mention £12.00 which wasn't applicable when the account was opened.

 

Fortunately, MBNA do not have our new telephone number so we are not being harrassed by constant calls.

 

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0008.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0007.jpg

http://i144.http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0006.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0005.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0004.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0003.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0002.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0001.jpg

 

This is my first time trying to upload the photos so I am sorry if I haven't done it correctly.

Edited by scanjet1954
Link to post
Share on other sites

So that is all they sent you? Just a bunch of new terms and conditions? If so, send the following letter:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re: your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

:)I am not an expert, but I can give good advice about Brighthouse:)

 

Am learning more and more about DCA's too :)

 

I have no legal experience and all advice given is based on the knowledge I've gained from this site.

 

<------If you think I have been helpful, please feel free to tip my scales - remember to put your CAG name though!

Link to post
Share on other sites
So that is all they sent you? Just a bunch of new terms and conditions? If so, send the following letter:

 

Thank you for your quick response.

 

Scan 1 is the covering letter

Scan 2 is a copy of a Priority Request form

Scan 3 is Financial and Related Conditions

Scan 4 is a covering letter re the current terms and conditions

Scans 5 -8 are copies of credit card agreement and terms which are current and not from 1999

 

Do I still need to send the same letter you have quoted?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Link is broken for number 6, so haven't been able to look at that. Hmmmmm.....instead of sending the letter above, just send this dispute one. What they have sent you is unenforceable (although, if you can repair the link on number 6 for me to look at, would be a great help):

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

:)I am not an expert, but I can give good advice about Brighthouse:)

 

Am learning more and more about DCA's too :)

 

I have no legal experience and all advice given is based on the knowledge I've gained from this site.

 

<------If you think I have been helpful, please feel free to tip my scales - remember to put your CAG name though!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Link is broken for number 6, so haven't been able to look at that. Hmmmmm.....instead of sending the letter above, just send this dispute one. What they have sent you is unenforceable (although, if you can repair the link on number 6 for me to look at, would be a great help):

 

Thank you very much, your help is very much appreciated.

 

I will try link again

 

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/scanjet1954/ebay/scan0006.jpg

 

I will also get letter ready to post off. We are waiting to see if MBNA send the same information on the other account.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That link now works - thanks :D Send the last letter I posted. The terms and conditions are not only new, but also difficult to read. As for the "agreement"......no, it's not. There is no credit agreement included in the documents they have sent you, there is no signature from you which links you to the t&c's.......;)

:)I am not an expert, but I can give good advice about Brighthouse:)

 

Am learning more and more about DCA's too :)

 

I have no legal experience and all advice given is based on the knowledge I've gained from this site.

 

<------If you think I have been helpful, please feel free to tip my scales - remember to put your CAG name though!

Link to post
Share on other sites
That link now works - thanks :D Send the last letter I posted. The terms and conditions are not only new, but also difficult to read. As for the "agreement"......no, it's not. There is no credit agreement included in the documents they have sent you, there is no signature from you which links you to the t&c's.......;)

 

Thank you very much. The only signature, which I have erased. was on the priority request form. They obviously think think we will accept whatever paperwork they send us as being "correct".

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would take a look at Mercman's thread who has had a similar response:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/185753-r-mbna.html

 

The signature document must contain the prescribed terms. Their argument could be that the 'financial and related particulars' are on the back of the signature portion (and they contain the Prescribed Terms etc) but they have already shot themselves in the foot by admitting the poor quality and that factor alone is enough to argue your point:

 

s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

If what they have sent is illegible in any way then it means they have not complied with s78(1) and are therefore in default under s78(6).

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
I would take a look at Mercman's thread who has had a similar response:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/185753-r-mbna.html

 

The signature document must contain the prescribed terms. Their argument could be that the 'financial and related particulars' are on the back of the signature portion (and they contain the Prescribed Terms etc) but they have already shot themselves in the foot by admitting the poor quality and that factor alone is enough to argue your point:

 

s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

If what they have sent is illegible in any way then it means they have not complied with s78(1) and are therefore in default under s78(6).

 

 

 

Thank you for your response as all help is gratefully received.

 

Now off to read other thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 years later...

My husband has been in diispute with MBNA for approx 4 years.Various Debt Collectors have been involved and no paperwork has been found. The latest being Rockwell who have sent a photocopy of a priority request form signed by my husband. Its at the top of an A4 sheet of paper and 3 inches deep. on the reverse there is Financial & related conditions. The wording is very small and like theother page is width of A4 sheet of paper and approx 3 inches deep.

 

Iis this valid paperwork?

Link to post
Share on other sites

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

posts merged to your existing thread

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you scan it up? Removing all the personal information, of course.

 

What they say was on the back may not have been, so it would be helpful to have a look.

 

Sorry, my scanner isn't working.

 

The priority form looks like one I posted sometime ago although the terms on the back are very small

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...