Hsbc/restons/marlin/phoenix

[henrythepug]

Hi there I need some urgent help.

About 2 years ago , I fell foul of restons who were collecting a debt for HSBC. At the time I did not know much about my legal rights , and I acknowledged the debt , making an offer of a modest monthly repayment. They totally ignored my offer, and the next thing I knew they had applied for a charging order against my property , which was granted. Incidentally they had added some £2000 to the debt for legal charges, and the debt also included penalty charges , at the time I was not aware that I could have challenged them.

I have been paying the correct amount each month , only to receive a letter from Marlin to say they had purchased the debt. I asked for proof , and they sent me a notice of assignment , which only showed that they had purchased various blocks of debts from HSBC, but no details.The company was Phoenix.

I wrote to them and suggested that I needed more proof . I didn't receive any acknowledgement , but today I received an order from my local court

stating that an application has been granted to Phoenix recoveries sarl Potomac recoveries be substituted in place of HSBC

The court made the order on its own intiative pursuant to Rule 3.3 of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.

It also states that any party affected has the right to set it aside , vary or stay within 7 days.

This is the first that I have had any communication regarding this .I had no knowledge that this had been applied for

Please help

[clemma]

I don't know how to advise you so i am just bumping this back to the top for you.

[henrythepug]

Thanks , hopefully someone may be in a similar position

[Exclus]

I've just had a very similar experience with Marlin. Restons obtained a charging order a year or so ago, and a few months later I received notice from Marlins that the debt had been assigned to them and I should now make payments to them. I ignored this until I had heard from Restons or HFC Bank.

 

A couple of weeks ago I did receive a letter fom Restons telling me to now pay Marlins, and I will now pay them my monthly amount. Today I received notice from the court that under CPR Pt19.4 Phoenix Recoveries be substituted in place of HFC. I phoned the court to try to see how this would affect me, and the the advice was just to keep paying as I had been doing so over the past year, but now to Marlin.

 

I presume that the whole point of this, from Marlins point of view, is to try and make me pay more per month, not to enforce a sale, but it is obviously worrying. Can anyone give advice as to what, if anything, I should be doing now?

[henrythepug]

We are obviously in the same position . I'm doing some research today but I will private message you in the next day or so

[Exclus]

Good hunting and lets see if we can help each other, as I am sure that Marlins are hoping we roll over and accept whatever they say as gospel.

 

I have always found good advice from members of this site, and I am sure one or two of the legal eagles will be able to offer help on what to do if Marlins start any enforcement action.

[bazaar]

Good hunting guys, but you may want to look into where Phoenix are based. ( Luxemberg)

Is it a possibility for you to challenge the original CCJ?

This would certainly put a spanner in the cogs for sure.

You most definitely need to see notice of assignments and deeds to ensure they have the legal right to your money

[henrythepug]

I checked companies house yesterday , and the following company has been inc on the 24/11/08

Phoenix recoveries (UK) Limited Co Reg No 06756754

Registered Office 26 Wilmot Street

London

E2 OBS No other info at the moment

The other Phoenix , exact same name, as you say is registered in Luxembourg

Re the Notice of Assignment . I received two letters , with two different dates of assignment, nothing from HSBC or restons.

I requested sight of my Credit agreement from Marlins , and they sent a letter back saying that once an agreement had been terminated they had no obligation to provide one in accordance with the Cons Credit Act 1974, referring to a recent High Court Judgement

They sent an Account Sale agreement betwteen HSBC and Phoenix .

The second part was an agreement between Phoenix acting on behalf of it's compartment Marlin selling the debt to Phoenix and its compartment Potomac

As far as I can see I have not received sufficient proof to identify my debt.

The court order says Phoenix Recoveries UK :imited s.a.r.l-Potomac Recoveries so I still do not know who I am dealing with .

Any thoughts ?

[clemma]

Ok - you sent the original CCA request to Marlins who have now passed it on to someone else. They can not do this as they are in default of your request. What kind of credit was this (credit card/loan)? However, you now state it is going to or has gone to court for them to gain a CCJ.......has this happened yet?

[henrythepug]

It was for a credit card. Restons took me to court , and obtained a charging order against me, on behalf of HSBC

I continued to pay monthly , then in May of last year , I was contacted by Marlins who said they had bought the debt, and that I should now pay them. I requested sight of my credit agreement , and a copy of the deed of assignment to prove that they had the right. If you look at my last posting you will see what happened. In the meantime I have continued to pay Restons / HSBC

[42man]

Just in case you didn't see this - (re Phoenix) Daughter in CCJ Littlewoods debt threat | Abbey fraud | National Savings blunder | This is Money

[clemma]

Ok - well the only thing i can suggest is that you maintain your payments. A CCA request at this point will not change matters (as far as I am aware), but you are perfectly within your rights to find out if Marlins do indeed have the right to pursue you.

 

Whatever happens from here DO NOT increase your payments to them no matter what they say. They can only have the amount set by the Judge - not one penny more.

 

You really need some proper advice with this as you are on limited time to try and get that judgement set aside......

 

Sorry i can be of no further help - I will try my best to alert the people who I think can assist.

[henrythepug]

Thank you I appreciate that

[bazaar]

Yes, you may be able to get a set aside, but you'll need a concrete statement for a judge to consider this. With these cretins passing this debt around like this, they are all cashing in.

Its important to look into this so youre sure what you need to do. You should try the original lender to see if there is an agreement. A CPR request should flush this out and wont cost you the £10 for a SAR.

Then you might be able to convince the judge that you were all duped into accepting the CCJ.

 

Something is a little suspicious to me here, They bought your debt and obtained judgement, so thats guaranteed money to them, why sell it on?

[42man]

Henry.....if you can you must go for a set aside (you need to move as quick as possible)....it is likely that there are a significant amount of charges have a look at this thread (i'm not 100% on charging orders) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156502-registered-county-court-judgement.html

 

You could also use the limitation act section 32c as you were only aware of the penalty charges since the OFT ruling back in 2007....

 

It might also be worth sending a SAR to the original creditor and with regard to the excessive lawyers fees a SAR to them too....

 

This is a good one to send to the original creditor...

 

You should send a £10 postal order with each one and address it to the Data Controller at each company:-

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

sign your name but put crosses through it

 

You'll have to edit the one for the solicitors though as you will need to ask them for a breakdown of their fees.....

[henrythepug]

I wrote to Restons many times demanding an explanation of their costs , and I have never ever received a reply. They just processed the county court judgement as quickly as they could , and at the time I was very green and uninformed. They even put on the Judgement form that the debt was to be collected forthwith as my monthly payment offer had been declined by them. I only noticed this after the event. The judge granted the charging order to them on behalf of HSBC.

To have this set aside, presumably I have to complete form 244 as this is now between Phoenix and me. Should I have been notified that this order had been applied for ?

[Satterthwaite]

Just checking in will have a good read of thread later and advise accordingly, got to go to work soon, but as i said earlier do not worry, help will be at hand!

[Satterthwaite]

Henry, you need to do a Subject Access Request to Phoenix to see exactly what they have got on you.

[henrythepug]

I did that in Sept 08. I then received an acknowledgement from Marlins saying that they had requested a copy of the Credit Agreement , and it would be sent in due course.They also mentioned that a recent High Court Judgement upheld that once an agreement had been terminated , the obligation to provide a copy agreement in accordance with the CCA 1974 ceaased to apply , and in particular the debt renains enforceable against me. They also included a sale agreement , which was not specific.

I wrote back asking for specific evidence that that had purchased my debt. Nothing has been received since October

I also wrote to Restons, asking for written confirmation that the debt had been reassigned and again asking for a breakdown of their charges , but received no response

I have had no contact with anyone until I received the Court order in the post

[Satterthwaite]

Am I right in thinking it is now Phoenix that are claiming you are liable to them as they have bought the debt?

 

If so it is them you need to SAR.

 

As regards what Marlin have said about not having to provide an agreement that is nonsense.

[Satterthwaite]

" They also included a sale agreement , which was not specific.

I wrote back asking for specific evidence that that had purchased my debt. Nothing has been received since October"

 

Can you post up the sale agreement removing any personal details.

[henrythepug]

ON THE EX PARTE ORDER RECEIVED FROM THE COURT , IT STATES PHOENIX RECOVERIES(UK)LTD S.A.R.L -POTOMAC RECOVERIES BE SUBSTITUTED AS A CLAIMANT IN PLACE OF HFC BANK LTD

(IE RESTONS OBTAINED A CHARGING ORDER IN 06

RE THE SALE AGREEMENT , I WILL TRY TO POST IT UP , BUT THERE ARE MANY PAGES.

FIRST PART A LEGAL SALE AGREEMENT BETWEEN PHOENIX RECOVERIES (uk)LTD S.A.R.L AND ITS COMPARTMENT MARLIN AND HSBC BANK,HFC BANK AND JOHN LEWIS FINANCIAL

SECOND PART FORM OF OFFER

IT MAKES MENTION OF ATTACHED SCHEDULE OF DEBTS, BUT OBVIOUSLY THEY DID NOT ATTACH ANY SPECIFIC INFO

SECOND PART

[Satterthwaite]

In that case I think you should apply using an N244 to have the case set aside. Unless anybody thinks otherwise. It seems clear that Marlin/Phoenix have no agreement, and also no default notice has been issued or a letter before claim.

Which court was the CCJ obtained? Northampton?

[Satterthwaite]

On the N244 in box 3 you need to put the following,

An order (a draft of which is enclosed) that the order made at ??? County Court dated ?? be set aside because default judgement was entered by request of the claimant on ?? not withstanding that the claimant did not hold a valid and enforceable agreement in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The defendant requests that the court set aside the default judgement pursuant to 13.3 CPR, as the defendant has a real prospect of defending this action.

[henrythepug]

Northampton Court without hearing Sept 06

 

Judgement be entered payable forthwith

The claimant may apply for a charging order

Apart from the charging order all other execution is stayed so long as the defendant pays £25 per month

 

I filled in the admission , showing that this was the sum I could afford