British Gas - one heck of a pickle!

[Red5]

Hello all

 

I've been reading these forums for some time but never posted.

 

Before I jump in I just need to clarify something,

 

I have an electricty bill from British Gas for a previous address. On the back of the bill everything is estimated (going to get into that later). For each period on the bill (of which there are three) I have this...

 

{Previous}--{Recent}

{51946}----{52012} 66 over 2 days

10 Mar 07 - 11 Mar 07

estimated - estimated

First 5kWh at 17.575p Next 61 kWh at 9.916p

 

{52012}----{53342} 1330 over 45 days

12 Mar 07 - 25 Apr 07

estimated - estimated

First 111 kWh at 16.699p Next 1219 kWh at 9.422p

 

{53342}----{54531} 1189 over 49 days

26 Apr 07 - 13 Jun 07

estimated - we estimated your final reading

First 121 kWh at 15.764p Next 1068 kWh at 8.894p

 

= 237 kWh Tier 1 charges.

 

From the Britsh Gas website:

 

1. For single rate credit meters, Tier 1 rate applies to the first 125 kWh per quarter and all subsequent consumption is charged at Tier 2.

 

Does that seem correct, am I missing something?

Edited February 24, 2009 by Red5

[Red5]

Anyone? :-?

[MG123]

Hello all

 

I've been reading these forums for some time but never posted.

 

Before I jump in I just need to clarify something,

 

I have an electricty bill from British Gas for a previous address. On the back of the bill everything is estimated (going to get into that later). For each period on the bill (of which there are three) I have this...

 

{Previous}--{Recent}

{51946}----{52012} 66 over 2 days

10 Mar 07 - 11 Mar 07

estimated - estimated

First 5kWh at 17.575p Next 61 kWh at 9.916p

 

{52012}----{53342} 1330 over 45 days

12 Mar 07 - 25 Apr 07

estimated - estimated

First 111 kWh at 16.699p Next 1219 kWh at 9.422p

 

{53342}----{54531} 1189 over 49 days

26 Apr 07 - 13 Jun 07

estimated - we estimated your final reading

First 121 kWh at 15.764p Next 1068 kWh at 8.894p

 

= 237 kWh Tier 1 charges.

 

From the Britsh Gas website:

 

1. For single rate credit meters, Tier 1 rate applies to the first 125 kWh per quarter and all subsequent consumption is charged at Tier 2.

 

Does that seem correct, am I missing something?

 

Hi Red

 

Bill sculpting may have changed since then but Im not greatly sure. There have been instances on gas were the billed standard annual kwh then introducted a new billing system and started again even though the higher tier had already been reached.

 

Youre best giving them a call hunny :?

[Red5]

Reason for asking, get coffee!

 

I moved house in May 2007, I telephone through my new address and meter readings which I duly followed up in writing (still have a copy of the letter). The gas bill eventually arrived at my new address and I paid it, this was after some involvement with a DCA (from this point on I assumed BG didn't have any record of me calling, or that they received my letter)

 

I kind of gathered BG were lax as I had lots of problems with them sending bills to different addresses with my name (on the same street), on one occasion BG attempted to cut my landlords (lived accross the road) gas off for a bill in my name that had nothing to do with either of us?! (turned out to be a business address 2 doors down) On another occasion a meter reader actually accused my wife of exchanging the electric meter, it wasn't the serial he had on his sheet (the wife ended up throwing him out). Another time they set a direct debit up without letting me know... completely out of the blue.

 

After quite a few letter exchanges with several DCA's I hit BG with a S.A.R in May 2008, as one particular DCA was chasing me for an £835 bill! (I would have expected it to be around £150 pounds, which does work roughly when you apply the correct reading, not counting anything I had already paid!) I sent the statutory fee and requested a copy of the information they have and requested it under the CCA. They sent a letter back with the PO I sent saying they were not bound by the CCA. I sent another letter stating regardless of what they may/may not be bound by I still required this information and listed each paragraph under the DPA, they ignored this request completely.

 

In September 2008 I finally received a bill (I can only assume this was their response to my S.A.R, full statement of account!). The final 'estimate' is 550 units over the actual reading and there appears to be an outstanding figure (from a previous bill) of £562.63. There are no details of any payments I made.

 

I had a credit meter, which I paid for at the post office by payment card each month. Every now again BG would raise or lower monthly payments. As far as I can recall (honestly) I never missed 1 payment. In the seven years I lived at the address I never received a letter saying I owed them anything, disconnection notices or even demands for missed payments, except where my name appeared for different addresses (yes, my name appeared on no less than 3 different addresses on the same street according to BG).

 

The latter part of last year a lady from BG called, I tried to explain the situation, but ultimately I told her I would pay everything I (may) owe, but I had no intention of paying anything until the bill for the final quarter was corrected and they had sent me statements so I could back track where this mysterious £562.63 had come from.

 

Didn't hear anything at all until I checked my credit report in January. Sure enough there is a default from BG for £835.63. Even admitting I owe the £562.63 (which I do not honestly believe I do) the amount shown on the default is inaccurate as this is an estimated bill and doesn't reflect the actual reading? I sent them (Andy Eley) another S.A.R on January 27th to which they have not replied. I sent the same S.A.R and copied it to Sam Laidlaw and Phil Bently on the 20th February.

 

I've contacted Experian and told them the information used to lodge the default is inaccurate and requested they remove it. They wrote to BG who have told them it should stand. I've asked for a copy of the information BG used to lodge the default in the first place and a copy of the statement that proves it's accurate, which has been ignored to date.

 

The gas and electricity supplies were arranged for by my landlord well before I moved in. I was told in no uncertain terms if I wanted to switch supplier I had to seek permission. The day I moved in I called BG and told them I was the new occupier and gave the start readings over the phone.

 

Strange thing, in the seven years I was there I had 4 meter reads (someone knocked on the door), 2 of those reads were done in the weeks leading up to moving. Yet, as you can see above each reading is estimate for that quarter?

 

What I could do with is some clear advice on the following,

 

1) I never signed a contract, nor did I verbally agree to any contract/terms and conditions (I was never asked to). BG never sent any T&Cs or gave me any indication as to what those T&Cs might be. Are they legally entitled to pass my personal information to DCAs/CRAs or would that fall into the 'unlawful' processing or similar category?

 

2) Consumer Direct advised this morning, as this was a domestic supply there would be no such contract (there are no contracts for domestic supplies? this can't be right??) and they didn't know if BG were duty bound to send any T&C's when I first moved in (completely confusing!!) I recorded this conversation...

 

3) Where do I stand with regard to notifying the CRA's the default is based on inaccurate information and their refusal to put it right?

 

4) Under the circumstances, is it reasonable for me to request back statements so I can ascertain where BG may have gone wrong? And is it reasonable for them just to completely ignore me? Are they required in any way to comply with my requests?

 

5) What, if anything else can I do to straighten this mess out?

 

This is seriously affecting me, I can't replace my car (my companies private car policy has requirements as to the maximum age they will allow) I have since been turned down for a credit card, despite the fact I have 4 in very good standing, not to mention my credit profile being almost Nun like except for this!

 

I really wish BG would have taken this to court last year, this might be sorted out now, I find it rather odd they didn't, unless they have something to hide do you think?

 

Any help with would be much appreciated!

Edited February 27, 2009 by Red5

[MG123]

Reason for asking, get coffee!

 

I moved house in May 2007, I telephone through my new address and meter readings which I duly followed up in writing (still have a copy of the letter). The gas bill eventually arrived at my new address and I paid it, this was after some involvement with a DCA (from this point on I assumed BG didn't have any record of me calling, or that they received my letter)

 

I kind of gathered BG were lax as I had lots of problems with them sending bills to different addresses with my name (on the same street), on one occasion BG attempted to cut my landlords (lived accross the road) gas off for a bill with my name on it that had nothing to do with me (turned out to be a business address 2 doors down) On another occasion a meter reader actually accused my wife of exchanging the electric meter, it wasn't the serial he had on his sheet (the wife ended up throwing him out). Another time they set a direct debit up without letting me know... completely out of the blue.

 

After quite a few letter exchanges with several DCA's I hit BG with a S.A.R in May 2008, as one particular DCA was chasing me for an £835.00 bill! (I would have expected it to be around £150 pounds, which does work roughly when you apply the correct reading, not counting anything I had already paid!) I sent the statutory fee and requested a copy of the information they have and requested it under the CCA. They sent a letter back with the PO I sent saying they were not bound by the CCA. I sent another letter stating regardless of what they may/may not be bound by I still required this information and listed each paragraph under the DPA, they ignored this request completely.

 

In September 2008 I finally received a bill. The final 'estimate' is 550 units over the actual reading and there appears to be an outstanding figure (from a previous bill) of £562.63. There are no details of any payments I made.

 

I had a credit meter, which I paid for at the post office by payment card each month. Every now again BG would raise or lower monthly payments. As far as I can recall (honestly) I never missed 1 payment. In the seven years I lived at the address I never receive a letter saying I owed them anything, disconnection notices or even demands for missed payments, except where my name appeared for different addresses (yes, my name appeared on no less than 3 different addresses on the same street according to BG).

 

The latter part of last year a lady from BG called, I tried to explain the situation, but ultimately I told her I would pay anything I owe, but I had no intention of paying anything until the bill for the final quarter was corrected and they had sent me statements so I could back track where this mysterious £562.63 had come from.

 

Didn't hear anything at all until I checked my credit report in January. Sure enough there is a default from BG for £835.63. Even admitting I owe the £562.63 (which I do not honestly believe I do) the amount shown on the default is inaccurate as this is an estimated bill and doesn't reflect the actual reading? I sent them (Andy Eley) another S.A.R on January 27th to which they have not replied. I sent the same S.A.R and copied it to Sam Laidlaw and Phil Bently on the 20th February.

 

I've contacted Experian and told them the information used to lodge the default is inaccurate and requested they remove it. They wrote to BG who have told them it should stand. I've asked for a copy of the information BG used to lodge the default in the first place and a copy of the statement that proves it's accurate, which has been ignored to date.

 

The gas and electricity supplies were arranged for by my landlord well before I moved in. I was told in no uncertain terms if I wanted to switch supplier I had to seek permission. The day I moved in I called BG and told them I was the new occupier and gave the start readings over the phone.

 

Strange thing, in the seven years I was there I had 4 meter reads (someone knocked on the door), 2 of those reads were done in the weeks leading up to moving. Yet, as you can see above each reading is estimate for that quarter?

 

What I could do with is some clear advice on the following,

 

1) I never signed a contract, nor did I verbally agree to any contract/terms and conditions (I was never asked to). BG never sent any T&Cs or gave me any indication as to what those T&Cs might be. Are they legally entitled to pass my personal information to DCAs/CRAs or would that fall into the 'unlawful' processing or similar category?

 

2) Consumer Direct advised this morning, as this was a domestic supply there would be no such contract (there are no contracts for domestic supplies? this can't be right??) and they didn't know if BG were duty bound to send any T&C's when I first moved in (completely confusing!!) I recorded this conversation...

 

3) Where do I stand with regard to notifying the CRA's the default is based on inaccurate information and their refusal to put it right?

 

4) Under the circumstances, is it reasonable for me to request back statements so I can ascertain where BG may have gone wrong? And is it reasonable for them just to completely ignore me? Are they required in any way to comply with my requests?

 

5) What, if anything else can I do to straighten this mess out?

 

This is seriously affecting me, I can't replace my car (my companies private car policy has requirements as to the maximum age they will allow) I have since been turned down for a credit card, despite the fact I have 4 in very good standing, no to mention my credit profile being almost Nun like except for this!

 

I really wish BG would have taken this to court last year, this might be sorted out now, I find it rather odd they didn't, unless they have something to hide do you think?

 

Any help with would be much appreciated!

 

Lol I managed to read thew whole lot. Im working at the moment but will go through this in detail later. I can certainly help you with this.

[Red5]

Thank you, I certainly hope so

[pelham9]

See

 

British Gas to sue Accenture over customer service hell | This is Money

 

Typical British Gas mess-up.

 

There should be no DCA involvemrnt until you have been billed correctly. Ignore any further letters and phone calls from a DCA and communicate with Briticsh gas only. If you get DCAs contacting you complain to OFT & FSA.

 

Have you used BG's complaints procedure yet - if not do so and if you get no reply complain to the regulator.

Edited March 2, 2009 by pelham9
Coorection DVA for CRA

[pelham9]

And this

 

 

My British Gas nightmare: Customer service hell - This is Money Blog

[Red5]

Well, I got a reply, they sent a bill/payment statement that lists what I paid and when I paid it (some of it appears to be missing)

 

Some facts and figures,

 

I moved in to my old address on Sep 1st 2000. The first real meter reading (everything else is estimated) is 8th Jan 2005 by my calculations that means,

 

From and including: Friday 1st September 2000 to, but not including Saturday 8th January 2005, is 1590 days from the start date to the end date, or 4 years, 4 months, 7 days without a reading?! I know for a fact I provided readings over the phone while trying to sort out one of the many problems I had, interestingly the start reading is missing altogether?

 

Entries between 19th Oct 2005 and 14th Apr 2006 have no readings what so ever, not even estimated? 2 lines between those dates read: Reading Removed? What does that mean??

 

Consumption based on readings British Gas say I provided or they attended:

 

08-Jan-05 to 12-Apr-05 1701 kWh used (94 days) {average 17.9 kWh} I’m not sure if that is high or not just going on the figures they’ve given me, but if it seems reasonable then winter to spring I could understand why the daily average would be slightly higher in the winter months.

 

12-Apr-05 to 14-Apr-06 5209 kWh used (367 days) {average 14.15 kWh}, for a full 12 months, I’d expect the daily average to be overall slightly less than above due to seasonal changes through a year.

 

14-Apr-06 to 29-Sep-06 4396 kWh used (167 days) {average 26.01 kWh a day}

 

The final reading according to the statement still does not reflect the actual date I moved out and the reading I provided. Although they do seem to admit I called but they didn’t for some reason record the readings I provided?!

 

They admit to not sending a final bill which would put them over the 12 months they can claim?

 

In simple terms does it look like I have a case? BG seem to want to complicate matters for some reason and everthing appears to be ok with my account until around Oct/Nov 2005, just goes down hill from there, their new billing system??

Edited March 4, 2009 by Red5

[MG123]

Well, I got a reply, they sent a bill/payment statement that lists what I paid and when I paid it (some of it appears to be missing)

 

Some facts and figures,

 

I moved in to my old address on Sep 1st 2000. The first real meter reading (everything else is estimated) is 8th Jan 2005 by my calculations that means,

 

From and including: Friday 1st September 2000 to, but not including Saturday 8th January 2005, is 1590 days from the start date to the end date, or 4 years, 4 months, 7 days without a reading?! I know for a fact I provided readings over the phone while trying to sort out one of the many problems I had, interestingly the start reading is missing altogether?

 

Entries between 19th Oct 2005 and 14th Apr 2006 have no readings what so ever, not even estimated? 2 lines between those dates read: Reading Removed? What does that mean??

 

Consumption based on readings British Gas say I provided or they attended:

 

08-Jan-05 to 12-Apr-05 1701 kWh used (94 days) {average 17.9 kWh} I’m not sure if that is high or not just going on the figures they’ve given me, but if it seems reasonable then winter to spring I could understand why the daily average would be slightly higher in the winter months.

 

12-Apr-05 to 14-Apr-06 5209 kWh used (367 days) {average 14.15 kWh}, for a full 12 months, I’d expect the daily average to be overall slightly less than above due to seasonal changes through a year.

 

14-Apr-06 to 29-Sep-06 4396 kWh used (167 days) {average 26.01 kWh a day}

 

The final reading according to the statement still does not reflect the actual date I moved out and the reading I provided. Although they do seem to admit I called but they didn’t for some reason record the readings I provided?!

 

They admit to not sending a final bill which would put them over the 12 months they can claim?

 

In simple terms does it look like I have a case? BG seem to want to complicate matters for some reason and everthing appears to be ok with my account until around Oct/Nov 2005, just goes down hill from there, their new billing system??

 

 

Hi Red

 

Normally removed suggests a meter change/tariff change but Im puzzled as to what a space between the dates were unless they were readings that 'failed' and werent inline with previous usage.

 

The average electric usage is 15-25kwh depending on the size of the home (if it was storage heaters eg economy 7 or 10 this will be different averages)

 

With regards to the usage of 26kwh I doubt theres anything you can do now to check if it was running too fast or if there had been any changes that you cant remember, anything from leaving an immersion on to setting the heating at a low thermostat etc etc can effect this.

 

To clarify about the 1 year back billing rule. This only applies if the billing is the companies fault. Possibly with the delay in producing this bill you may have a case but if the account was billed BEFORE the year and it was simply finding your new address, you may not be so lucky.

 

Good luck Red

[Red5]

Oh, forgot to mention, they also admit to sending bills to (a) different address on the same street with my name on it... only 1, which they say they corrected... NOT!

[Red5]

Hi Red

 

Normally removed suggests a meter change/tariff change but Im puzzled as to what a space between the dates were unless they were readings that 'failed' and werent inline with previous usage.

 

The average electric usage is 15-25kwh depending on the size of the home (if it was storage heaters eg economy 7 or 10 this will be different averages)

 

With regards to the usage of 26kwh I doubt theres anything you can do now to check if it was running too fast or if there had been any changes that you cant remember, anything from leaving an immersion on to setting the heating at a low thermostat etc etc can effect this.

 

To clarify about the 1 year back billing rule. This only applies if the billing is the companies fault. Possibly with the delay in producing this bill you may have a case but if the account was billed BEFORE the year and it was simply finding your new address, you may not be so lucky.

 

Good luck Red

 

2 bedroom semi with gas central heating.

[Red5]

Something else that seems a little odd... on the bill they sent me toward the end of last year says:

 

{53342}----{54531} 1189 over 49 days

26 Apr 07 - 13 Jun 07

estimated - we estimated your final reading

First 121 kWh at 15.764p Next 1068 kWh at 8.894p

 

On the statement they sent me today it quite clearly says:

 

13-Jun-07 54531 Customer Meter Reading.

 

Ooook.... how and why would that change? A customer read estimate? Something doesn't smell right...

Edited March 4, 2009 by Red5

[MG123]

2 bedroom semi with gas central heating.

 

Im in a three bed semi and use around 30kwh. Im also on a combi boiler. And gas cooking with no gas heaters.

 

Im at work all day but tend to hammer the usage when I come in but during summer my usage is around 20-25kwh but again different homes, different levels of consumption.

 

With regards to that heavier period (during summer which is a little strange I admit), without physiaclly going to that house and removing that meter and doing a load test there is simply no way of proving something was seriously wrong.

 

Oh and just noticed your extra thingy majig there. Looks like that final read (their so called accurate one) has been worked out from the daily usage you carried. The complete situation is a shambles and Id be pulling my hair out by now!

[Red5]

The fact remains I did not provide a reading on 13-Jun, I wasn't even there at that time! It was mid May, and it wasn't 54531, it was 53981....

[MG123]

The fact remains I did not provide a reading on 13-Jun, I wasn't even there at that time! It was mid May, and it wasn't 54531, it was 53981....

 

 

Then you must ask them to manually rebill Red.

 

There is actually a system that records all (billed) readings sent in by customer/data collector as well as start reads and finish reads for supplier changeovers. Its very likely that the reading they have done for the June (54531)will be on there as an estimated read. Just a bit of useless fact there. Sorry!

[Red5]

So, based on what we know (or don't, as the case may be, I'm getting confused!) How are BG able to lodge a default, when it appears they know deep down the information they used to place it in the first place is inaccurate?

[pelham9]

What date did you leave your old home?

 

Which DCAs were involved - it may have been their in house collectors?

 

Did you keep a record of the start meter reading in your old home?

 

Have you checked the meter number that they were billing? Has it been correct throughout?

 

Have they got the correct address for your old home on their database now?

 

Certainly they should never have put a default marker onto you account as the final bill has never been agreed. Write to them in these terms saying that you have never had a final and agreed account so why is there a default marker. Tell them to take it off. It is a waste of time going for Experian -they will always accept BGs word and they never make an in depth enquiry or require proof. Keep a record of any loan refusals or higher than normal interest rates you might have been offered and get evidence from the lender for their reasons. It may need court threats to get this marker off and it is as well to have all the evidence of detriment to you so that you can claim compensation. Make it a condition of accepting a final bill that the default is removed.

 

I am sure that you now realise that phoning means that you will talk to a sypathetic customer services's bod who is powerless. You will be told that this will be sorted or that they will ring back and nothing will happen. Write to them recorded delivery.

[Red5]

What date did you leave your old home?

 

Which DCAs were involved - it may have been their in house collectors?

 

Did you keep a record of the start meter reading in your old home?

 

Have you checked the meter number that they were billing? Has it been correct throughout?

 

Have they got the correct address for your old home on their database now?

 

Certainly they should never have put a default marker onto you account as the final bill has never been agreed. Write to them in these terms saying that you have never had a final and agreed account so why is there a default marker. Tell them to take it off. It is a waste of time going for Experian -they will always accept BGs word and they never make an in depth enquiry or require proof. Keep a record of any loan refusals or higher than normal interest rates you might have been offered and get evidence from the lender for their reasons. It may need court threats to get this marker off and it is as well to have all the evidence of detriment to you so that you can claim compensation. Make it a condition of accepting a final bill that the default is removed.

 

I am sure that you now realise that phoning means that you will talk to a sypathetic customer services's bod who is powerless. You will be told that this will be sorted or that they will ring back and nothing will happen. Write to them recorded delivery.

 

1) Approx May 20th 2007

2) Buchanan Clark + Wells (Oddly enough another popped out of the blue through the post this morning (not heard anything from anyone about this in nearly 12 months!) from Wescot threatening court action, oh I wish they would…..)

3) I did but no longer have it (was taken in Sep 2000)

4) I can't check the serial number as I haven't had the bills, I have asked for them but BG haven't sent them. BG Sent reading/estimate payment/bill print out that doesn't detail any other information.

 

I have no intention of phoning them at all, I've read quite a few forums that advise against this.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Red5

[pelham9]

What date was the default marker put on your CRA file?

 

Which of the three main CRAs have you checked?

[Red5]

Checked just one at the moment, Experian.

 

The default was lodged mid December 2008. I've sent that letter by the way, asking them why they defaulted me while the account is in dispute.

[MG123]

Checked just one at the moment, Experian.

 

The default was lodged mid December 2008. I've sent that letter by the way, asking them why they defaulted me while the account is in dispute.

 

Thats rather fast considering you had the bill not so long back!! Keep us informaed Red. Im actually having a similar problem but not with my utilities.

[Red5]

14 days are up, they've not responded... how odd... NOT!

 

I think the only way I can go now is to send them a notice of intended court action, give them another 14 days and wait for them not to respond then file my papers.

 

Are there any guides to taking this to court?

 

What do you think?

[Red5]

Case won!

 

British Gas has withdrawn the Default and agreed to re-calculate the final bill based on the actual final reading.

 

I just need to sort an issue with regard to their estimated bills, after I gave them actual readings now.=