monkey_uk -v- HSBC CCA for g/f

[citizenB]

So, no prescribed terms on the document then and no terms and conditions from inception of account ? NOt doing very well are they really:)

 

Credit Card Request Form, that is a new one isnt it?

[johnnymitch]

I think they're doing this with SAR s too, CB - someone got one the other day ...... the beauty of that is, if you fill it in and hand it to the bank , they can't say they haven't got it and the clock starts ticking from then ......

[citizenB]

Hmmm, and I guess by doing that you cant get away without giving a signature ?

[monkey_uk]

Hu? You've lost me...

[Castlebest]

Hiya Monkey were not saying anyone would commit the heinous crime of forgery to get your signature onto a document i.e. copy your signature from a letter for instance but there have been documented cases in the past where things have mysteriously appeared .

 

If you do sign anything make sure you can recognise that particular signature... by putting a dot or a line in it that isn't normally there for instance just to be on the safe side .

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

Best not to give a proper signature for a SAR monkeyuk - some unscrupulous companies (and I'm not saying the banks ) have been known to copy & paste signatures onto documents which were prevously unsigned .... so if you give a signature for a SAR (or CCA) , best to make it slightly unique e.g. an extra curl on a letter or a surreptitious dot somewhere so it's identifiable if it appears on a document .......

 

Actually , they don't need a signature on a SAR if they can positively identify you otherwise, but they make such a song & dance about it they waste weeks sometimes insisting on a signature .... Have a look at pigsic's threads if you have time , you'll see what I mean ....

[johnnymitch]

Snap - you've done it again , pete .........laffin uproariously ....:lol:

[steven4064]

The other way is to print your name and then sign over it in a different colour. Should they be stupid enough to comit fraud in this way you can tell imediately because the anti-aliasing of the scaned signature will be wrong where it crossed the printed name

[monkey_uk]

Aah, I've got around the signture route by inserting a text box into word, typing into it "signed on 28Feb09", sizing it to 4pt text or similar (so it is just about readable), colouring it grey, then filling the box with said text.

 

Printed out, then signed over this.

[monkey_uk]

Didn't get change to read that long massive thread last night, so still no nearer knowing what to do next

 

Why am I always so god damn busy?!

[questioning]

Thats the trouble when you start to take this route,

At the end of the day knowledge is power.

The only way to get this power is reading, reading, reading. then trying to fathom out what you've read.

I've spent hours and hours here at CAG and often I should have been doing something else. Its a self help site and the info you can gain is amazing, really its all here.

I've not even found the time to enter the Beer Garden yet.

[johnnymitch]

Hee Hee - you haven't lived until you've been in the Beer Garden, Q

 

[questioning]

I haven't got a life cos I've got too much blooming reading to do,

PS, Are you following me,

[johnnymitch]

PS, Are you following me, :grin:

 

No-o-o-o-o-oo ! Whatever gave you that idea

 

:lol:

[monkey_uk]

Update time...

 

 

Sent this on 2nd April 2009:

 

I write with regards to the above account, held with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me, by return, a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature.

 

I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to s78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules (pre-action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore, an unsigned copy will NOT suffice, only a copy of the original contract in it's unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances. If you do not understand what this means, please seek legal advice.

 

Please confirm whether or not you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and if you do, that you will provide me with this document. I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask that you respond in writing, no later than 4pm on 23rd April 2009.

[monkey_uk]

Reply received from them 28th April 2009

 

I refer to your correspondence dated 2nd April.

 

We have complied with the requirements of section 78 the Consumer Credit Act 1974, in particular we have supplied copies compliant with the Resulation 3(2)(b) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. There is no requirement under section 78 that the original or a photocopy of the original signed agreement be provided.

 

At this time we are unable to locate the document requested. However, if required to do so to enforce the agreement we are willing to provide other evicdence that there is a credit agreement and that both parties have serviced that agreement.

 

Whilst I understand this may not be the response you were hoping to receive, I trust I have clarified the bank's final position on this matter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Patricia Govier

 

 

So, now what?!

[pt2537]

Reply received from them 28th April 2009

 

 

 

 

So, now what?!

 

Have you read SMT's thread on his application?

[monkey_uk]

No, where is that? (I'll look whilst waiting for you to reply, so if I find it I'll post back here!!

[johnnymitch]

Nothing back yet then monkey ?

 

Why am I not surprised ...... They maybe need a nudge to point out that the next step is court ......

[johnnymitch]

Oops! I didn't realise that pt2537 had replied ...

[monkey_uk]

Ok, I've read SMT's thread, but I don't understand much about what he's done??

 

I mean, I know he took them to court somehow to force them to give him the document,but I don't understand how he went about it...

[johnnymitch]

You start ourt action in the normal way monkey -using the POCs on this link:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/130-data-protection-act-non-compliance-particulars-of-claim-.html

[johnnymitch]

Here's another one which might help too :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Oops! Forget that - I think you've been there.........

[monkey_uk]

Thanks johnny, but yes, been there too!

 

My issue is that there isn't a step by step guide for this seemingly complicated process.

 

Also, any idea what HSBC mean by "However, if required to do so to enforce the agreement we are willing to provide other evicdence that there is a credit agreement and that both parties have serviced that agreement." ???

[johnnymitch]

If they've got that evidence then it should be produced in response to a SAR or a CCA .......

 

IMHO this sounds like an attempt to discourage you because they haven't got an agreement ...... a judge would be a bit unchuffed if court time was wasted by them not supplying what they should have done at your request ..if they've got it all the time ................