PPC 2nd letter from them HELP!!

[thisisafakename]

hello all 1st post

 

got a charge by PPC parking on a private road, got charge notice on car, got letter through to RK which i returned with template letter from here advising take it up with driver im RK, PPC have returned advising that shouldnt use template letters from here as not strictly accurate and doesnt constitute legal advice!! also references a case upmann vs elkan(1871) which should read 1971 i might add. which references a counterfeit goods case?!!!basically trying bully me into telling who was driving, by saying i have a "duty"

 

where would people go from here, i've told them i am RK and they need to take it up with driver, as far as im concerned thats my part done!

[DDWales]

Hi! Do not worry. Its more nonsense and intimidation from a PPC. You have no obligation by law to tell them who the driver is. By them trying to use case law on you shows how desperate they are for your money!! Ignore from now on. Who is the PPC by the way?

Edited February 19, 2009 by DDWales
spelling

[thisisafakename]

vehicle control services

[DDWales]

I havent had any dealings with this PPC personally but perhaps a few of the other Caggers have. They may be able to tell you which DCA (s) they work with etc. However, as above,- ignore as if you continue to write they will think you are wavering into paying and hassle you even more.

[Al27]

Continue to ignore these clowns.

 

also references a case upmann vs elkan(1871) which should read 1971

 

Sounds like they can't lose then. I'm surprised they haven't submitted their small court claim already!

[DDWales]

Continue to ignore these clowns.

 

 

 

Sounds like they can't lose then. I'm surprised they haven't submitted their small court claim already!

 

 

Haha-agreed! Your in trouble now...not!!!

[My Real Name]

Sounds like they can't lose then.

I quite agree. Surely it's now a slam dunk of a case. Can't argue with Upmann vs Elkan, after all.

 

Wait - what?

[lamma]

VCS talking drivel - again. Ignore them.

[sameagle]

"Summary.

Upmann were Cuban cigar manufacturers who found several counterfeit boxes of cigars marked with their brand. The cigars were found at St Catherine's Docks and consigned in the name of Elkan who were German forwarding agents and warehousemen. Elkan maintained that they did not realise that the goods were counterfeit. It was argued by Elkan that it was not possible to obtain an injunction against them as they had no knowledge of the counterfeit nature of the goods.

 

 

Decision

 

Lord Hatherley LC noted that this was effectively an appeal about costs and held that a duty was upon Elkan to give all the information they possibly could from the first moment possible to assist Upmann"

 

Did VCS issue you with a ticket for smoking whilst driving ?

 

Sam the Eagle

[thisisafakename]

haha i do see the ridiculousness of it but it would be nice if they just didnt bother me again. should i tell them get stuffed and send proof who was driving or just ignore them?

[Al27]

If you want them to go away, just ignore them. Whatever you do, they won't stop (they are only letters after all). If you contact them, their eyes will light up and possibly harrass you for longer.

[DDWales]

"Summary.

Upmann were Cuban cigar manufacturers who found several counterfeit boxes of cigars marked with their brand. The cigars were found at St Catherine's Docks and consigned in the name of Elkan who were German forwarding agents and warehousemen. Elkan maintained that they did not realise that the goods were counterfeit. It was argued by Elkan that it was not possible to obtain an injunction against them as they had no knowledge of the counterfeit nature of the goods.

 

 

Decision

 

Lord Hatherley LC noted that this was effectively an appeal about costs and held that a duty was upon Elkan to give all the information they possibly could from the first moment possible to assist Upmann"

 

Did VCS issue you with a ticket for smoking whilst driving ?

 

Sam the Eagle

 

I think that says it all-really laughable and signs of pure desperation for your money by quoting case law that has absolutely no association with whats going on! Has anyone had anything similar or worse?

[Wayne's Enforcement]

The significance of the case cited is that a defendant must take reasonable steps to help the claimant in a civil case.

 

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

[My Real Name]

The significance of the case cited is that a defendant must take reasonable steps to help the claimant in a civil case.

 

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

The right not to incriminate oneself or others.

 

That, and the lack of any statutory requirement to keep a record of the driver, let alone inform some random with a tin foil badge and photocopied law diploma.

[Steve__M]

The significance of the case cited is that a defendant must take reasonable steps to help the claimant in a civil case.

 

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

 

The parking company is entitled to seek a court order requiring the RK to provide the information, but the parking company will need to pay the RK's defence costs, and would have, at the very least, to show that the RK had some level of responsibility for the driver's action.

 

In short it's an insurmountable hurdle for a small invoice, and therefore PPC bluster to suggest it is a requirement.

 

Norwich Pharmacal Co. and others -v- Customs and Excise Commissioners, House of Lords, 1973

 

Since 100% of requests to PPCs to provide evidence relevant to their claims

are ignored, it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black (as my mum would say).

[lamma]

ahh a "Norwich Pharmacal Order". Beloved by Perky - that alone tells you how likely it is to be used. By used I mean here on earth in reality, not on the bizzaro world of PPCs.

[petej2811]

The significance of the case cited is that a defendant must take reasonable steps to help the claimant in a civil case.

 

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

 

A defendant must take reasonable steps.

 

Nobody else is under any such duty. So if the keeper knows himself not to be the defendant he is not a party to the contract, to the case and indeed is nothing to do with the matter at hand then it cannot rightly be said that he has any obligations to assist any purported claimant.

 

Particularly so when the keeper knows that the claimant's case is flawed in law.

 

The purported claimant must identify the defendant himself. He can ask all he likes for the assistance of any party but that party is absolutely not under any obligation whatsoever in law to assist.

 

You're misquoting the point of the case and doing so to the detriment of users here. Given that you are a PPC associate of some description your presence here mis-quoting law could easily be construed as a mis-representation per S2 Fraud Act 2006. Particularly if you were to give the said advice to someone who had been sent a invoice from a firm which you are associated with.

 

I suggest you tread lightly having been given suitable advice.

 

P

[kiptower]

you move to the basement ( HELL) with the rest of the bottom feeders :D:D

[Al27]

I think you should take the plunge and buy that pie shop business you've been eyeing up in the paper.

 

Nice honest living is selling pies.

[Guest lipupfatty]

didnt sweeney told have some involvement in the selling of pies

[crem]

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

 

 

I don't understand this made up term of CIEO.

 

What on earth is one of those supposed to be and does Wayne think that by giving his invoice clerk's a made up title that sounds like the legally appointed CEOs we will be duped into believing they are official people like we think his PCNs pretending to be real council PCNs are? (or not)

[lamma]

[letshelp]

In Wayne's World PPC's are the law, dream on Wayne.........

[the_freedom_trail]

The significance of the case cited is that a defendant must take reasonable steps to help the claimant in a civil case.

 

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

 

Oooopppps, I forgot who was driving the car at the time - what you going to do about that one Wayne? lol BTW, what the hell is a CIEO. I woke up this morning and declared myself a super mega pretend parking ticket enforcement mega man. Dude, seriously you have about as much legal power as a paper bag. Would you kindly stop misleading people on this site over the legality and legitimacy of private parking tickets.

 

TFT

[letshelp]

The significance of the case cited is that a defendant must take reasonable steps to help the claimant in a civil case.

 

So, if you were the registered keeper of a vehicle which received a PCN from a CIEO on private land, and were not the driver - what reasons could a reasonable person have for refusing to name the driver and to allow justice to take its course?

 

Well you will have to issue a court summons to find out, rather than the mindless nonsense that usually arrives in the post from the PPC.