Charge for not displaying Permit correctly

[FedUpWithParkingTickets]

Hi,

 

I have read through a number of posts on this forum, and have seen one or two with a similar context, however I would appreciate clarification for my circumstances...

 

I live in a rented apartment in city centre, which is supervised by the infamous PAO PPC. The our parking conditions require that we display a valid permit at all times in the car park. I have lived in the apartment for over a year, and my partner and I share a single car. I discovered, a couple of weeks ago, that a parking charge had been attached to my car window, the reason of issue being "Without a valid permit or authority!". Ironically, I pay £40 per week in council parking tickets, and I have never received a PCN; the first charge I receive is for parking on my own doorstep! (albeit in an appropriately marked bay).

 

I saw indeed that the permit was not on the dashboard as it is usually, and had fallen onto the car floor. I appealed the charge, explaining that I am a full-time resident and that I am entitled to a parking space, and explained the honest mistake (what possible benefit would I get from removing the permit from car?! And is quite easy to overlook checking a permit that is always there each time you get out of the car.) and sent a photocopy of the permit. Appealing to their better nature was a waste of time, and they responded re-iterating the conditions for parking in this area, which include "Displaying a Valid Permit At All Times".

 

I feel that a £60 fine is disproportionate in this case, as the "landowner" that I am "in contract with" in this case suffers no damages (as this space would only remain empty otherwise and there is no visitor parking - and as the permit is issued as part of the tenancy agreement - there are no pay-on-demand spaces). I am extremely reluctant to pay this charge, despite the fact I actually appreciate the job the PAO have done in reducing unauthorised parking in our car park, which was a considerable problem in the past.

 

I have seen that other consumers have simply ignored the notices that are sent from their respective PPCs. I have also read through the templates and am uncertain whether to continue correspondence using the appropriate templates, or to cease all contact. My concerns are that PAO is presumably the agent for the management company which manages our appartment block, that I have already "admitted fault" in a sense in my appeal, and of course the dreaded £3/day. On the other hand I feel I can be fairly certain that if I pay the sum, continuing to appeal will prove fruitless.

 

Also, if there are any CEOs hovering around the forums, I would be happy to hear your side too.. regulating parking in our area is important to avoid situations where even residents cannot find a space, however given that I have offered proof of my residency, my entitlement to a space, my permit, and my single car, do you think it is still right to enforce the charge... Does the crime fit the punishment is what I'm asking?

 

What are your thoughts, any help or advice would be appreciated. In the meantime, I will try to contact the management company for advice, and have a read through my tenancy contract to see how these parking terms and conditions are laid out.

 

Kind Regards

 

FedUpWithParkingTickets

[havinastella]

You have the contract with the land owner and you have proof of that contract as you have a parking badge.

 

Ignore them ortell then to take you to court, they can never win.

 

Whatever you DO, DO NOT pay them a penny.

 

Jogs

[FedUpWithParkingTickets]

Thanks for your quick reply havinastella.

 

My worry is just that the permit clearly states on it that it must be displayed on the windscreen at all times, and that I am "in breach" of this condition, therefore invalidating my entitlement to space.

 

I dont intend to pay unless I have to, I think more than anything I just need genuine reassurance that a few months down the line im not gonna be slapped with a CCJ or a big invoice.

 

In this case do you think it better to ignore them or to take the "template approach"?

 

Cheers

 

FUWPT

[Al27]

Ok, so if the permit stated you had to pay £10,000 would it become any more or less enforceable?

 

You need to get your head around the [problem] aspect of the whole system. Your experience with their 'appeals' department should give you a hint about how legitimate the charge is.

 

People ignore UKPAO day in day out. Their £3 'liquidated damages' should also start alarm bells ringing.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them again

• ignore any further letters

 

What's the point of a template? They're not going to listen to you.

 

Don't worry about a CCJ. They would have to take you to court in the first place, and that's almost guaranteed not to happen.

 

"The defendant owes us £40 + £200 liquidated damages for not displaying the permit he already owns, on one occasion, for the parking space outside his own home".

 

Ain't gonna happen.

[lamma]

you space is part of your contract with the landowner (or you own or lease it outright). they can print all kinds of rubbish on the permit (and do !) - doesn't make it valid or enforceable.

[petej2811]

Ok, so if the permit stated you had to pay £10,000 would it become any more or less enforceable?

 

You need to get your head around the [problem] aspect of the whole system. Your experience with their 'appeals' department should give you a hint about how legitimate the charge is.

 

People ignore UKPAO day in day out. Their £3 'liquidated damages' should also start alarm bells ringing.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them again

• ignore any further letters

 

What's the point of a template? They're not going to listen to you.

 

Don't worry about a CCJ. They would have to take you to court in the first place, and that's almost guaranteed not to happen.

 

"The defendant owes us £40 + £200 liquidated damages for not displaying the permit he already owns, on one occasion, for the parking space outside his own home".

 

Ain't gonna happen.

 

I'm going to have to disagree. Ignoring people who threaten you with legal sanctions, however toothless they may be preceived to be, can not be wise. The one person who ignored the letters and is summoned to court is going to look like they're trying to dodge debt and give the upper hand to the PPC. I suggest formulating a case, putting it to them and telling them to sue or cease.

[FedUpWithParkingTickets]

Hi,

 

I have recevied a second notice in bold red type:

 

*** "YOU MUST NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE" ***

 

The invoice now demands [approx £150] and comes complete with the following warning message:

 

*** "FAILURE TO COMPLY

 

Failing to comply with this notice will result in:

you costs increasing by £3 per day by way of liquidated damages and court action being taken against you.

 

Please note: We may ask the court to enforce the debt by instructing a bailiff to wheel-clamp and remove the above named vehicle or any vehicle registered to you from your home address, business address, highway or any place the vehicle is observed within the UK. In such cases the vehicle may be held until the payment is received in full.

 

Please note: any additional court costs, bailiff costs and storage costs may also be added to the sum owed." ***

 

 

I am not going to pay this money, and will continue to wait it out. Has anyone had a similar experience? How long will these threatening letters go on for before they either actually take court action or drop it altogether? Is it worth taking any action at this stage?

 

Thanks

 

FUWPT

[Al27]

All par for the course.

 

Expect a couple more, and maybe two or three from debt collectors. Then they'll give up.

 

Court won't happen.

 

Do not contact them.

 

 

Please note: We may ask the court to enforce the debt by instructing a bailiff to wheel-clamp and remove the above named vehicle or any vehicle registered to you from your home address, business address, highway or any place the vehicle is observed within the UK. In such cases the vehicle may be held until the payment is received in full.

 

All of which would be highly illegal.

[lamma]

just saying it is illegal. doing it more so.

[kiptower]

quote

 

Failing to comply with this notice will result in:

you costs increasing by £3 per day by way of liquidated damages and court action being taken against you.

 

Please note: We may ask the court to enforce the debt by instructing a bailiff to wheel-clamp and remove the above named vehicle or any vehicle registered to you from your home address, business address, highway or any place the vehicle is observed within the UK. In such cases the vehicle may be held until the payment is received in full.

 

i wonder just how a PPC is going to remove or clamp on the public highway without breaking the law ( criminal )

 

there must a place called the PPC Fairy Tale Land where they dream these things up and think they can enforce them

[FedUpWithParkingTickets]

Once again guys, thanks for your quick responses. I will keep this thread updated with progress, and hopefully it will serve as a further point of reference for those experiencing similar problems with PPCs.

 

Cheers,

 

F.

[FedUpWithParkingTickets]

Hi,

 

Just a quick update. Followed the advice in this thread, and ignored any further letters.

 

I received a series of ever increasing invoices, and finally an ultimatum for £300, and the threat of court action, which may or may not be enforced within the following 6 years. I suspect the latter... I received the PCN over a year ago now, and havent heard anything for months.

 

So a final thankyou for the advice on this forum, and a note to any others who may find themselves in a similar situation with private parking enforcers... dont pay it!

 

Kind Regards,

F.