Hugh's CCA to Marbles

[Hugh Jeffort]

Firstly apologies if this thread is in the wrong place, if anyone can suggest a better place or maybe a mod could move it!!!!!

 

I have CCA'd Marbles and the lovely people have replied with the following...

 

 

 

They also sent me my last 6 statements which was nice considering I didnt ask for them!!!!

 

The second copy is obviously an application form, although there is a statement at the top that it is an agreement. It does have all the relevant signatures but from what I can tell doesn't have any of the other required info. There is a statement at the bottom (In a bold box) that refers to Terms & Conds being on page 2, 3 and 4 but they did not send any of them!!

 

Whats my next step? They have sent a copy of what I asked....sort of....but is it enforceable or do they need a "you haven't complied letter"?

 

Any info would help no end!

 

Thanks

Edited April 27, 2009 by Hugh Jeffort

[Hugh Jeffort]

Anyone with ideas on this? Was wondering how I stood with the missing pages??

[Castlebest]

Hiya Hugh Jeffort and welcome to the HSBC forum

 

Your correct, the application form they have sent you does not contain any of the prescribed terms and conditions, interest rates etc, etc that they are required to provide under a CCA section 78 request.

 

Your account is in default until they provide the required information

 

pete

[Hugh Jeffort]

Thanks Pete,

 

Do you know anything about the ref to T&C's at the bottom, could the info they have to provide be on them? Even though they didnt send them!!! Trying to think ahead and second guess what might come next from them!!

[ANDREAMOUR]

Hi Hugh

I Have Exactly The Same Form

Im Just Trying To Decide My Next Move

The T&cs That Are Mentioned At The Bottom Of The Page Do Not Correspond With The 1s They Sent Me...

Im Just Thinking Maybe The Prescribed T&cs Were On The Back Which Could Be Page 2..

I Think This Would Make It Enforcible..

But We Dont Know Unless We See The Original Agreement And The Only Way To Do That Would Be Court..

I Was Just Scanning Round To See If Anybody Had Got Any Further With A Similar 1

Thats How I Came Across Yours..

If I Find Out Any More I Will Let You Know

 

Andre

Edited February 20, 2009 by ANDREAMOUR
SPELLING

[Hugh Jeffort]

Hi Andre,

 

I've decided to call thier bluff and have sent an 'Account in dispute' letter today!!

You managed to get your T&C's? Thats more than they managed to send me!!

 

Will keep you posted when and if they reply!!

[Castlebest]

Hiya ANDREAMOUR and Hugh, the CCA section 77/78 request asks for a copy of the terms and conditions governing your accounts not a copy of the application form.

 

The application for may or may not form part of the terms and conditions governing your account but until they send you the whole document you cant assume it does.

 

So your accounts are in default (not dispute) they have defaulted on your legal right to see a copy of the account agreement and as such the so called debt is unenforceable until they comply with your request

 

pete

[Hugh Jeffort]

Hi Pete,

 

Thanks for the info! On the application they sent me it does say 'Credit Agreement regulated by the Blah blah blah' I assumed they were incorporating the two together as they do have both my sig, their sig and a cancellation clause!!

 

Will it matter that my letter said account in dispute??

 

I'll have to read through and learn the difference, ha ha!!!

[Castlebest]

Hiya Hugh, your a litigant in person, your allowed to get a little muddled

 

Just google the consumer credit act and go to section 77/78, its fairly easy to understand its not written in legalese .

 

if you have any questions just ask

 

pete

[Hugh Jeffort]

Thanks Pete,

 

Have started to read throught it, its slow going but i'm getting there!! I keep having to go back a para and read again slowly!!!

[Hugh Jeffort]

Still no response to my letter, maybe its time to SAR them then CPR!!

[johnnymitch]

Hi Hugh ,

 

You've been very patient , but it's time to bring up the big guns now I think .

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

 

You'll find a SAR top of the list in the above link - send it to Marbles recorded delivery - they have 40 days from date they receive it to come up with the agreement or - the game's over - there is no debt !

[Hugh Jeffort]

Thanks for that johnny, I was going to ammend the letter slightly so that they are in no doubt that i'm requesting a copy of my cca!!! Roll on 40ish days!!

[Hugh Jeffort]

I've finally had a reply from Marbles in response to my 2nd letter, seems like a generic one where they go on about how they have complied with my request and how I have no right to withhold money!! The funny part is they go on about not having to provide me with a copy of the agreement I signed but they already have........and it doesn't contain any of the prescribed terms!!

 

I will post it as soon as I can get it scanned........will appreciate any advice on what to do next......still waiting for the SAR too!!

[Hugh Jeffort]

 

This is the letter I have recieved from Marbles last week.

 

The thing i'm not sure about is the letter states they dont have to send me a document that has my signature on it but they did!!

 

The application form does have both mine and their sigs but non of the prescribed terms. This was clearly stated in my letter to them but they seem to have sent a generic response!!

 

What should be my next step? Should I send another letter explaining it again?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Hugh Jeffort

[johnnymitch]

If that is only an 'Application Form' Hugh , then it's not a legal document in the sense of an 'agreement '. i.e. you can apply for something , but it's not necessarily agreed .........

 

What they have to provide is an agreement -and they are right - they don't have to send you one with your signature on it , unless you ask them under CPR 18 (if you are considering asking them to produce it in court). But I'm sure it has to be a copy of the AGREEMENT you signed with all the T&Cs as part of the same document .

 

I think you may have to ask them again - and if you want to go down the court route try asking under CPR 18 (that's Court Procedural Rules btw).

 

Have a look at this link and see if it helps :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html#post1868913

[Hugh Jeffort]

Hi All,

 

Received a letter from Marbles this morning informing me that they are increasing my interest rate by over double to 33%!!!!

They do say if i'm not happy with this then I should close my account and continue paying off the balance as I have been!!

 

My question is if I decide to close the account can I still pursue the credit agreement enforceability or is this their way of punishing me for enquiring about it?

 

I have never missed a payment with them and therefore have no arrears or DN's, they obviously just dont want me as a customer anymore!!! Could this be because they know they do not have an enforceable agreement?

 

Lastly.....I promise.......... with reference to the letter they sent me in post 15, can i reply with a letter along the lines of....

 

Dear Sir,

 

I was a little confused with your response to my letter informing you that my account is in dispute, your letter states that you do not have to provide me with a true signed copy but you have previously sent me a copy of the signed agreement with both my signature and your own. The problem I have, which was stated in my previous letter, is that the the agreement is unenforceable as it does not contain any of the prescribed terms required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974........

 

Obviously i'd tart it up a bit but I want them to know they have sent me a signed agreement already and I know for a fact I didnt sign anything else!!

 

Any comments would, as always, be gratefully recieved!!

 

Thanks

Edited May 8, 2009 by Hugh Jeffort

[Hugh Jeffort]

Can anyone comment on the letter I recieved? Dont want to close the account if it will make my request for a proper CCA harder, but at the same time I dont want to pay 33% on the balance!!!

[Hugh Jeffort]

Shameless Bump!!!

[Hugh Jeffort]

Bump

[Hugh Jeffort]

Hi All,

 

Guess there is no-one that can comment on the letter I recieved but was hoping someone could comment on the latest gem from Marbles.....

 

I decided to request a copy of my agreement using the CPR 31.16 route only to be sent a letter which says the following....

 

"Dear Hugh,

 

Thankyou for your letter dated 7th May 2009.

 

In order for us to consider your request, please supply us with the correct 16 digit credit card number for the customer as the number quoted on your correspondance is invalid.

 

Your faithfully

 

Anne Gartshore "

 

Now this is puzzling as I have been using this account number to write to them for 6 months and have recieved replies...... why now have they decided they dont recognise it??

 

I was going to write something along the following lines and would appreciate any guidence.......

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (same one as i've always used)

 

Thankyou for your letter ref xxxxxxxxx

 

The account number I quoted you is the number I have used to correspond with you successfully on many occasions and is the number found both on my credit card and statement sent to my home address by you. I do not have another number that corresponds with this account..................................................

 

(then continue with a rewrite of the original request under CPR 31.16)

 

Would this be along the right lines or should I not mention having statements etc??

 

Getting so confused with all this and am struggling to find the min payments each month to keep them at bay!!

 

 

[freakyleaky]

 

I was going to write something along the following lines and would appreciate any guidence.......

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (same one as i've always used)

 

Thankyou for your letter ref xxxxxxxxx

 

The account number I quoted you is the number I have used to correspond with you successfully on many occasions and is the number found both on my credit card and statement sent to my home address by you. I do not have another number that corresponds with this account..................................................Please find enclosed copies of the last 3 statements sent to my home by you.

 

(then continue with a rewrite of the original request under CPR 31.16)

 

Would this be along the right lines or should I not mention having statements etc??

 

Getting so confused with all this and am struggling to find the min payments each month to keep them at bay!!

 

 

Just added a little something to your letter. There is no problem admitting having statements as you are only asking for a copy of the agreement.

 

Sending them the last 2 or 3 copies should stop their little game.

Send everything recorded delivery.

[Hugh Jeffort]

Thanks Freakyleaky, will get them together now and get it off this afternoon!!!

[griffin036]

Hugh, You may have noticed that recently marbles has been taken over by Aviemore which is part of the Bank of Scotland. Your earlier correspondance was with HFC of Birmingham, but now it is coming from Edinburgh. Also when this change occured they changed your account number. All this happened to me, I was getting threats to pay up for an account number I didnt recognise, then the penny dropped. I had sent HFC in Birmigham a request for CCA and got more or less what you received, put the a/c into dispute and a few letters went to and fro. Then they switched to Bank of Scotland with a new a/c number so I've just CCA'd them. They havent responded at all so I have once again declared them in default. I'm just wondering if any paperwork/records have been binned with this changeover - one can but hope!. It might be worth sending aother CCA request to the Edinburgh address quoting your new account number.

 

edit, you should find your new account number on your latest statement.

[Hugh Jeffort]

Hi Griffin036,

I have noticed all the letters telling me of changes to my account but i'd already sent my CCA request off to HSBC so I just continued with that. I have been sending my latest letters off to Dunfermline and they have been coming back with Halifax headers.

Since I wrote the last post I dug out my last statement and it did have a new number on it so instead of sending them my statements I sent the correct number.......Doh!!!

I think we would be extremely lucky for paperwork to have gone missing, but fingers crossed!!

I recieved my application with the sigs on it but non of the prescribed terms, I know I didnt sign anything else but I still want to exhaust every angle on it before I withhold payment, getting tough cause I'm really struggling to find the min payments each month. Seems to me that they take more notice of you when you dont pay!!