Debt collection-No agreement DEBT WRITTEN OFF

[sickofthis]

Hi everyone,

 

I really don't know where to start with this. I am currently 8 & 1/2 months pregnant so please forgive me if I babble a bit!

 

I took out a personal loan with HSBC over 12 years ago for just over £1000 approx (I don't have the records anymore). On 17 Nov 1998 this loan was passed on to Metropolitan Collection Services with a balance of £5???. By the 22nd Nov 1998, interest of £1793.34 was added giving a total balance of £5,945.75. I was told that the interest would be frozen from now on. I have been paying this off with a minimum payment and £7/per month for 11 years and this last year have increased it to £15/month, making the total length of time I have been paying 12 years!

 

I have letters from MCS, one of which states that on 22 may 2006 I still owed £7,095.05. I am constantly harrassed by MCS, they call me at all hours and keep asking me to set up standing orders, or has my situation changed, do I have mobile phone etc. They are so rude and aggressive. I have asked on many occasions for them to send me statements to prove what I owe, all they send and tell me is the balance that I owe.

 

I do not have a copy of the loan agreement with HSBC. HSBC tell me that MCS are nothing to do with them and that MCS have taken over the debt and that they no longer hold any record as my account was closed over 6 years ago. They are currently trying to track evidence of my loan. I know it was never £5,000 odd.

 

I know it's really silly of me not to have held my records and not to have done anything until now but I have been so scared by MCS that I have just kept making payments to them so that they wouldn't take me to court or send bailiffs round, as this is what they threatened over phone.

 

I received another call at 9pm last nite (being heavily pregnant) I was in bed and after the call I was unable to sleep. I am sure this is no good for me or my baby and I feel that I really have had enough now. I asked MCS to stop calling me, explaining that I was pregnant only to get another harassing call this afternoon which left me in tears.

 

Do I have to pay this now, HSBC don't think it has anything to do with them now and as far as I can see, all that I am paying is interest and charges and nobody seems able to give me evidence of what I truly owed on this debt before charges etc. I have requested evidence and statements from HSBC but it is unlikely they say as they only keep records for 6 years.

 

Please, if anyone can help or offer advice I would be so grateful.

 

Thankyou

[Trilby274]

OK - I think an expert will be all over this shortly. First off, don't speak to them on the phone. Send off a CCA request to Metropolitan enclosing a £1 postal order. Use the letter templates here. Just to be on the safe side, send one to HSBC as well (another £1)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

Print your name on the CCA request - DO NOT SIGN IT.

 

If it's a boy, you can call him Trilby!

 

Oops - might have got the link wrong - someone will put it right!

Edited December 12, 2008 by Trilby274

[silverfox1961]

Hi sickofthis,

These people(!) make my blood boil.

With your CCA request I would also send this:

 

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

 

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 2006 COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE

 

Account Number: XXXXXXX

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Please treat this also as a formal complaint, and send me a copy of your company complaints procedure.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[NAME HERE] (type don't sign)

 

 

Edit it to suit your needs

 

When they do phone again simply refuse to answer their security questions and tell them "in writing only". There is nothing they can say to you without knowing you're the right person (data protection act)

If you can manage to afford it, get a recording device and record them (they don't need to know so long as you don't publish the recording)

 

If you need help with the CCA just shout. we've all been there.

 

good luck:-D

 

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

OK - I think an expert will be all over this shortly. First off, don't speak to them on the phone. Send off a CCA request to Metropolitan enclosing a £1 postal order. Use the letter templates here. Just to be on the safe side, send one to HSBC as well (another £1)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

Print your name on the CCA request - DO NOT SIGN IT.

 

If it's a boy, you can call him Trilby!

 

Oops - might have got the link wrong - someone will put it right!

 

sorry trilby gotta correct you.

don't bother sending CCA to HSBC. they've already stated that they have removed information as it's over 6 years since the account was closed.

 

fox

[silverfox1961]

In fact I think you should STOP paying these useless pieces of ****. You have paid over the odds now.

I'm not sure if you can Subject Access Request them but if you can, DO IT. I can almost guarantee there will not be a valid CCA after all this time and you can legally stop paying them.

They bought the debt for 10-15p in the pound so they have more than got their money back.

 

I'm so angry for you:mad:

 

fox

Edited December 12, 2008 by silverfox1961
ANGRY SPELLING LOL

[sickofthis]

Thank you so much, have already printed the letter you gave me to MCS. Had problems opening the CCA Request link but will keep trying.

 

I really appreciate all the help and support you guys are giving me, this is making me feel so much better already.

 

 

Thank you so much!!!

[sickofthis]

In fact I think you should STOP paying these useless pieces of ****. You have paid over the odds now.

I'm not sure if you can Subject Access Request them but if you can, DO IT. I can almost guarantee there will not be a valid CCA after all this time and you can legally stop paying them.

They bought the debt for 10-15p in the pound so they have more than got their money back.

 

I'm so angry for you:mad:

 

fox

 

Thank you Silverfox, what is Subject Access Request?> Am I being really dumb here....also what is a valid CCA, could you explain more to this pregnant brain

[Trilby274]

sorry trilby gotta correct you.

don't bother sending CCA to HSBC. they've already stated that they have removed information as it's over 6 years since the account was closed.

 

fox

Correct away fox - the more I learn the more I can help

[silverfox1961]

Here's the link again just in case something went wrong

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Make sure you send the CCA request by recorded delivery. DO NOT hand sign the letter, just print your name (some DCA's have been known to "lift" a signature and place it on an agreement) send a £1 postal order (not a cheque-signature?)

Make sure you track the letter through the post office web site and give them 12+2 working days to reply.

If they cannot fulfill your request then they can go swivel:)

 

 

fox

[fedup74]

Hi sickofthis welcome to CAG:) Stop worrying about these lowlifes and concentrate on you and your baby-the most important things! It is letter N for the CCA request. An SAR gives you all the info they have on file for you including phone calls, statements and should include a copy of your agreement (if they have one:D). I wouldn't send this just yet as it costs £10 and they have 40 days to supply the info. Send tha CCA request as posted above and stop worrying. If they phone you before they receive the harassment letter (also above in post #3 from silverfox;)) refuse to answer their security questions- yes it will P*ss them off but isn't this how these cretins make a living? Good luck with this lot and good luck with your impending arrival!!

[silverfox1961]

Fedup,

I made the mistake of comparing DCA's to pond life yesterday then i realised that pond life have far more intelligence than your average DCA.

 

Sickofthis. DAC's have no morals so in turn you take away their rights with a CCA(Consumer Credit Agreement).

It's a wonderful feeling to be in control.

If you have other debts, I'd do the same thing to all of them.

 

fox

[sickofthis]

Thanks guys,

 

Have found the letter N and have already printed a copy ready to send with my £1 on Monday by Recorded Delivery, together with Harassment letter. I am worried by the fact that I do not ever remember if I signed an agreement with them, but supposing I did and now I am stirring up all this trouble, they may demand full £6000 payment in full and the court may side with them. I am kicking myself for just rolling over and paying them all those years ago. I should have asked for evidence then but I was too scared and now I don't even know how much my loan truly was for, I have complained to HSBC and they are trying to find the archived documents but if they can't find them I have no evidence and MCS say that because I have been paying that this means that I agreed to the amount owing (is this true?)

 

Sorry for babbling again.....

[silverfox1961]

Sickofthis,

Babble away, loads of us have been there.

IF and it's a big if, they do come up with a valid CCA they can then start to enforce the debt BUT you tell them what you are going to pay. They CAN'T tell you. If they don't like your offer, they may threaten you with court.

 

If it does get to court, the judge will only make you pay what he thinks (taking into account you income/expenditure) and I'll guarantee it'll be less than the DCA want. The beauty of that is the DCA can't change that amount without going to court again.

 

I know it's a lot to cope with considering your bump but in the end it's well worth it because you feel more in control and don't worry about court because it's not like you see on tv, it's in a room with the judge and of course if it does get that far, the very experienced people on the CAG will help you every step of the way.

 

Any more questions just babble away:-D

 

 

fox

[sickofthis]

Hi Fox, your comments are really helpful!

 

Just one more thing, is the CCA the document you sign when you take out the loan or is it something Metropolitan Collection would have got me to sign?

[silverfox1961]

The CCA is the Consumer Credit Agreement you signed when you took on the loan.

Have you signed anything for MCS?

 

The fact it's so long ago now that the chances are very slim that they'll have a copy of your CCA anyway.

 

Anyway, don't get too stressed yet. I don't want to be responsible for a prem birth:)

 

Take it easy

good luck

 

fox:)

[sickofthis]

Hi Fox,

 

I have sent the off letter 19 requesting the Credit Agreement. If they do not have the original copy where do I go from there? They have sent me all statements today and say that that can see no reason for me to object to paying this legitimate debt bla bla bla.

 

Do I have the right to cease payment if they do not have the copy, how do I tell them to go swivel and what is my legal right in that respect?

 

Hope you won't mind helping me a bit more - thank you!

 

Sickofthis

[42man]

If they fail to produce a copy of your agreement after 12+2 working days of your agreement request, then send them the letter below (again by recorded delivery) I would urge you to log the times and dates they call you also....

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[silverfox1961]

Hi Fox,

 

I

 

Do I have the right to cease payment if they do not have the copy, how do I tell them to go swivel and what is my legal right in that respect?

 

Hope you won't mind helping me a bit more - thank you!

 

Sickofthis

 

While we may want them to go swivel I don't think it would be prudent to actually say so:D

 

42MAN has done the nescessary for you. Send that and sit back counting the counting the money they aren't getting from you cos of no CCA.

 

With companies like this, they won't take that nicely and I'll bet you they start calling or sending threatograms. They can bluff as much as they like until a valid CCA turns uo (if ever)

 

fox

[sickofthis]

Can they say that as up until now I have been paying monthly minimum payments that this proves that I have excepted the debt and am legally obliged to carry on paying - this is what they said to me on phone recently. Also, in the letter I received today they stated that thay have only made 3 telephone calls in 12 months (which were to try to help me by asking if wanted to set up a standing order). They are denying that they call on a regular basis - cheek but I can't prove it!

 

They will probably still take me to court, even with no CCA - or at least this is what they will bluff - right? Would the court side with them or me? I am prepared to go to court but I must say I am terrified by this thought.

 

Thanks for your continued support.

 

Sickofthis

[silverfox1961]

It doen't matter that you've been paying. You can demand at any time that they prove they have the right to be collecting the debt.

If there is no valid agreement then they have no right to demand money from you. Completely ignore what is said on the phone. They'll tell you anything to get your money.

 

With one of my cases (lowells) I'd paid about £240 off a debt before I CCA'd them. The last letter I got was closing their books on my account because of no agreement.

 

If the DCA can't give you a copy of your CCA then they have no right to be collecting. Even if it got to the court stage, they would still have to produce the original CCA you signed. No CCA is an absolute defence.

 

Check out a few threads where peeps have gone to court and won (thee's quite a few) and how scary it really is (NOT).

A lot of people see court as what they see on tv. Thses cases are usually done in a room and generally the judge is helpful (from what I've been reading anyway).

 

Try not to stress out and although you are well aware of this it does no harm to mention it again:

DO NOT speak to them on the phone- in writing only!!

 

 

fox:)

[sequenci]

Just for the record (I've skim red this thread and hope it hasn't been mentioned already)

 

MCS = HSBC = Metropolitan

 

All one and the same!

[sickofthis]

Hi all,

 

With reference to my previous post re HSBC loan of over 12 years ago. I sent both the DCA letter and when I had no response I then sent the account in dispute letter and have finally today had a response. I have attached the letter (hopefully) and would love some feedback on this.

 

They have suudenly started using my maiden name when they have always used my current name and they are still referring to this debt as my HSBC account, as if it is still current. I have spoken to HSBC on a few occasions now and they assure me that this account was closed 12 years ago and they have nothing on me in archive as the account was bought by the debt management agency all those years ago.

 

It seems the best they can do after nearly two months after my first letter, is to offer me their complaints procedure.

 

Where do I go from here? Any help would be really appreciated.

 

[Castlebest]

Metropolitan collections are not a DCA they are department of HSBC they just use a different letter head to fool you .

 

If you haven't already done it send Metro a Consumer Credit Act section 77 letter

 

pete

[sickofthis]

Yes I did know about Metro being part of HSBC but thanks for that. I have already sent the CCA letter and the account in dispute letter. I really couldnt sleep last night after receiving their reply (as posted) due to being worried sick about possibility of bailiffs turning up and breaking or forcing their way into my house. Although I have not got a CCJ it still worries me that Metro could do this to me soon, (I know this is what they would threaten me with! Could anyone shed any light on this. I realise that there are alot of posts on here regarding bailiffs but having just a new baby I do not get alot of time to spend on here nowadays.

 

Where do I stand now I have sent these letters? Please Please could someone reassure me so that maybe i can get some sleep tonight - it's bad enough waking with baby but the stress of this is awful.

 

Thanks guys

 

[johnnymitch]

Hi sickofthis , sorry it's taken so long for someone to get back to you ....

 

Firstly , if the account is in dispute they can't even tip-toe up to your door and ask for payment .... never mind send in the heavy mob.

 

Secondly, You can rest assured that DCAs do not have the power to send in Bailiffs -only a court can do that - and of course as you already know MCS is not even a proper DCA.

 

If there is no CCJ there is no prospect of bailiffs coming to your door , and even if they do you have to be warned - but put it all out of your mind , this would be scare tactics to frighten you into doing what they want - don't let them win ........ just wait and see what they come back with from your CCA request and come back and let us know - you'll be guided from there .........

 

Finally , have a good night's sleep (well, as good as you can with a new baby lol! ) and don't worry ........