Outrageous Judge Bahaviour! How can I proceed?

[mikek]

I recently went to a county court to hearing for: a request for a CCJ set aside for a credit card debt and also pre-allocation hearing for default charges in the same credit card. The amount has been cleared but it appears in my credit file. The Credit Agreement is unenforceable as it lack the prescribed terms. The amount included penalty charges and the judgment was obtained by default. The Judge behaved in a totally unacceptable way:

 

1. He had not read the case at all. He thought that it was a claim for a current account (although it was a credit card) and kept asking the bank why they had not applied for a stay!!!

2. He said that Schedule 6 the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 that contains the prescribed terms does not aply to credit cards, because credit cards are not regulated agreements! (OH MY GOD!)

3. He said that because I CCA'd the bank after the CCJ, the agreement they produced, even though it lacks the prescribed terms, cannot prove anything in my defence!!!

4. He said that £12 is a reasonable penalty charge according to OFT and not just an upper threshold!!!

5. He refused to order the bank for disclosure of how they reached the calculation of default charges!!!

6. He told my lay rep to more or less shut up even though he was polite but insisting on the matter of unenforceability!!

7. He kept encouraging the bank to claim legal expenses for turning up to the application hearing!

 

I am outraged! The Judge was totally unfair and totally talking nonsense!

 

How can I complain? Can I move the case to a different Court?

 

thanks

Edited February 16, 2009 by mikek
spelling

[intree]

here is my experience - so hey your not on your own, these Judges can do and say what they like - they also know the legals that attend as i found, as it was clear he was familiar with her from the other side, and the cow, just ignored us totally...............this is my experience - sorry to Hijack yours but your not alone mate..............I went to Court today, the judge was a bit of a twit, as he did not see why I had put in my defence, he advised that they were correct to chase me for the loan, as they had come along with a agreement, even though this was dated wrong.

 

In the end, after some lenghthy debate, he did not strike out our defence, but allowed the otherside to amend their POC to put the correct date in and change the name from CCF TO open and direct.

 

He then advised that we could put in a defence based on the POC (amended).

 

In the end he advised that they need to show to court a NOA (notice of assignment) and a true copy of the DN, they had provided a computer print out with all the details which we never received.

 

I also told the judge that we had been making reduced payments to them, Via CCCS but he said that if they have not accepted the reduced terms then we are still in default.

 

He did state that we woul be able to put this in our defence, However he asked that the defence be short as hesaid it was not suitable for the POC submitted............so the CAG advice to some extent was not really correct.

 

We have to now wait for amended POC then see what information we get and put in a defence, they have until 16/03 to put in the POC then we have a further 14 days after that.

 

I am so annoyed as the Judge did not seem to care about there attitude towards the CCCS and advised if we take out a loan we should repay it back, he also stated that 32.4% interest was as stated in the agreement so we would have to pay this up to judgement...............B astard....sorry.

 

I then asked for our costs and he advised if we win then he will put in the directions we can claim the witness costs only.

 

what a experience - the lady from the other side was a self employed paralegal, from leicester who was asking us for the background, she was totallu unprepared and then stated she may not see us again, so she does not know what Greenhalghs would do, but if it was her she would settle the matter without further costs................does not seem like they will though - I am not posting on the main site now as nobody seems to respond........and it feels now that I have started the action with advice from here,............nobody really has time or can be bothered to respond with the right advice.

 

Hope this explains what I went through - had to vent off as I was so annoyed by the attitude of the Judge.

 

Thanks for your advice to date.............keep me posted on how your doing with these idiots.

[JonCris]

I recently went to a county court to hearing for: a request for a CCJ set aside for a credit card debt and also pre-allocation hearing for default charges in the same credit card. The amount has been cleared but it appears in my credit file. The Credit Agreement is unenforceable as it lack the prescribed terms. The amount included penalty charges and the judgment was obtained by default. The Judge behaved in a totally unacceptable way:

 

1. He had not read the case at all. He thought that it was a claim for a current account (although it was a credit card) and kept asking the bank why they had not applied for a stay!!!

2. He said that Schedule 6 the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 that contains the prescribed terms does not aply to credit cards, because credit cards are not regulated agreements! (OH MY GOD!)

3. He said that because I CCA'd the bank after the CCJ, the agreement they produced, even though it lacks the prescribed terms, cannot prove anything in my defence!!!

4. He said that £12 is a reasonable penalty charge according to OFT and not just an upper threshold!!!

5. He refused to order the bank for disclosure of how they reached the calculation of default charges!!!

6. He told my lay rep to more or less shut up even though he was polite but insisting on the matter of unenforceability!!

7. He kept encouraging the bank to claim legal expenses for turning up to the application hearing!

 

I am outraged! The Judge was totally unfair and totally talking nonsense!

 

How can I complain? Can I move the case to a different Court?

 

thanks

 

Phone the court & tell them you want a transcript of the hearing (it's recorded) as you intend to appeal the judges decision as well as complain to the MoJ about the judges conduct.

 

Your compliant will in particular mention his persistent encouragement to the other party, a firm, that they seek costs against a litigant in person something which fortunately they declined as well his complete misunderstanding of the matters before him & his misinterperation of the law

[mikek]

In the end he allocated the case to a track and we shall have a normal trial, but he said the amount was too small to order disclosure of how the bank reached the figures in default charges. OH MY GOD! No matter how small or large the total, it is still made up of the same charges isn't it???? He also said that he would be looking to compensate the difference between the default charges and £12 , even though the bank has not even sent a single letter in the post for the late payments.

 

I AM OUTARAGED WITH THOSE UNFAIR JUDGES THAT SIDE WITH THE BANKS AND FIGHT THE BANKS' BATTLES FOR THEM. THE GUY FROM THE BANK DID NOT HAVE A CLUE AND THE JUDGE WAS FIGHTING HIS CASE FOR HIM! I AM UTTERLY DISGUSTED!

[intree]

I must say that I am also very shocked with the attitude of the Judges, especially when they know they are dealing with Litigants in person.

 

Thats the Justice system for you.................in the end is it really worth it!! ......................after todays experience I am not so sure, but it would help if more legal helpers could give some regular advice, as without this - people like us just have no chance in Court.

 

Maybe I will feel a little less angry tomorrow........

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

What area of the country were the courts in? - so we can avoid them.

 

GK

[mikek]

The problem with the Judges is that as soon as you walk in through the door they automatically assume that: 1) you are a [problem] bag otherwise you wouldn't be there for money issues. With their 100K salaries they have their heads up their a***s about financial issues of everyday people 2) you want to borrow and not repay i.e steal 3) they are GODS and you are at their mercy 4) that everyone has the money to go to a top notch solicitor or the time to wait in endless queues and beg at CABS for legal advice, which is also usually of poor quality.

 

If i am rude in my job, I will be sacked. How are they allowed to be so rude and with an attitude like this????

[intree]

Leicester Here

[mikek]

Avoid Edmonton County Court at any expense!

 

Many people i know have commented that all Judges are biased towards banks to an exceptionally high degree that they actually fight the cases for the banks and that is very suspicious.

 

This court also has an unusually high number of cases of banks vs individuals.

 

Strange isn't it?

[JonCris]

Which track was allocated

[mikek]

small claims

[andrew1]

I had a judge who wouldn't read my skeleton argument on the day of the hearing, wouldn't take on board that I questioned a possible fraudulent document being submitted by the claimant as an Exhibit, asked the claimants barrister advice on how to proceed then awarded them costs against me, knew little or nothing about the CCA which this case was all about, said she was needing to get to a lunch appointment...I was miffed too, but I get a second shot in another court soon...more than one way to skin the cat, but it is totally unacceptable that LIP's should get treated like this. I gather one can ask the judge to consider using CPR 1 (2) Dealing with a case justly includes, so far as is practicable –

 

(a) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;

 

Meaning as a LIP you can ask the judge to take into account you as a LIP might be facing a barrister and therefore they must try to keep the balance on your behalf on an equal footing...I didn't know this when I went in, I might try it next time...

 

Unsatisfactory though I know, but this is why sometimes getting outside legal opinion is so important. The forum people do their best with limited knowledge of individual circumstances so try not be too hard on them...the whole forum tries hard to help bring justice for people, but there are a lot of judges with many different opinions like we all have, it just means we have to research ourselves and not take everything or anything on face value of what you read here or anywhere else..check it, then check it again if you are doing it yourself.....

[underdog13]

For complaints about a judge's behaviour:

 

 

Complaints about judges, members of small tribunals or coroners

 

If you want to complain about the personal conduct of a judge, member of a small tribunal or coroner you should write to the Office for Judicial Complaints by post or email. If for any reason you are unable to make your complaint in writing, please telephone us and we will be pleased to help you.

You can download a printable version of our complaints form and send it to us:

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Alternatively, write to us by post or by email making sure you include the following information:

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Send your complaint to:

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Your complaint should be made as soon as possible and in any event, no later than 12 months after the incident that you wish to complain about.

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[Can't Pay]

Just reading through your thread. Have you thought of instructing a barrister on the new direct access scheme, you don't have to use a solicitor and therefore it is cheaper. I instructed a guy from 5 Pump Court, he got my egg agreement set aside saving me £6,000 It was on the fast track and the Judge took me a lot more seriously.

[andrew1]

Who do you contact and what did it cost?

[Can't Pay]

£690 for the hearing, which include the preparation of the skeleton argument, and a short telephone advice. This was recovered from the other side as they lost. I phoned the clerk. Don't have number to hand but I found them on a google search, If you type "5 Pump Court" you should find them.

[Von Greenbach]

If a judge has dismissed a set aside application can it be appealed, if so, how?