Carrie Vs Natwest (worth a read)

[punterstuff]

Hi guys! ( all letters mentioned that I had received from NatWest, I am happy to send you a jpeg of for you to read their responses in full)

 

OK.. to start with... here is the contact address you should be using for NatWest ....

 

Cutomer Relations

Ground Floor

National Westminster House

225 Shenley Road

Borehamwood

WD6 1TE

 

This is the address they respond from, so this is where your mail gets sent anyway!

 

OK.. here is my Natwest Story...........(soon to be made into a musical)..

 

14th april.... went into bank and paid for statements to be sent to me. Requested 6 years.

 

About 2 weeks later I received statements from 2002 - 2006. I went into my local branch and asked them to check that a request for 6 years and not 4 had been made. They could not chase this up as to their whereabouts but confirmed that I had ordered statements dating back to 2000. 4 weeks later, still no sign of 2 years of statements. I again went into my local branch. This time I was told that up until 2002 they were using a different system, so these statements would take a little longer. I am still waiting!!!! But have decided to carry on with the amounts that I currently have for the 4 years as I think this is when I mainly incurred charges.

 

Also, the statements arrived in a ripped envelope. The envelope they put them into was obviously was too big and they bashed around in their journey to me.

 

22nd May 06... I sent the second letter first by mistake... although I didnt see a problem as the letters pretty much state the same thing.

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS:

0******* (sort code **-**-**) and 4******* (sort code **-**-**)

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £2409.50 plus £952.85 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £3362.35

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by he taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

23rd May...

 

received a letter back from Natwest. ( I can send you a jpeg of the full letter if you like)...

 

To summarise....

• Thanks for the letter, sorry for dissatisfaction....
  
• Charges are FAIR, REASONABLE and TRANSPARENT.
  
• Amounts debited have applied STRICTLY in accordance with published tariff.
  
• They differ on my views.
  
• Dissappointed I am contemplating legal action.

This letter is about half a page long.

 

11th July... I gave them plenty more than 14 days after my first letter. So now I posted my second letter (which should have been the first)

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS:

09875247 (sort code 55-61-17) and 42063035 (sort code 55-61-17)

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 6 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £2409.50 plus £952.85 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £3362.35.

 

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

17th July...

ALOT MORE INTERESTING....

My reply from Natwest was now over one page long. I shall send it to anyone who is interested!!!! It is worth a read as to what their new defence is.. OBVIOUSLY RUNNING SCARED OF PEOPLES CLAIMS!!

 

In summary...

 

• Thankyou for letter
  
• They are unsure of my basis for contention
  
• charges are fair.. blahblah
  
• satisfied tariffs complies with law and regulations.
  
• media coverage on bank charges prompted by Office of Fair Trade LIMITED TO ADMINISTRATION CHARGES ON CREDIT CARDS
  
• This DOES NOT extend to bank charges
  
• They have considered the Office of Fair Trades statement of 5th April 2006 and does not accept findings.
  
• Office of Fair Trade has restricted its investigation into credit cards.
  
• Must differ with my views
  
• WILL NOT BE REFUNDING ANY CHARGES APPLIED TO MY BANK ACCOUNT!!!

NEXT STEP COURT?!?!?!?!!!:o

[cheddar]

They have sent you the same standard letters they are sending to everyone, read the step by step guide and you will see what your next step is. You have given them a deadline, they have responded so your next step is court from what you have said in your letter to them.

[punterstuff]

OK..... quick summary... I have sent both letters and I have now gone as far as moneyclaim.gov.uk .... all the details are as follows....

 

..to start with... here is the contact address you should be using for NatWest ....

 

Cutomer Relations

Ground Floor

National Westminster House

225 Shenley Road

Borehamwood

WD6 1TE

 

This is the address they respond from, so this is where your mail gets sent anyway!

 

OK.. here is my NatWest Story...........(soon to be made into a musical)..

 

11th april.... went into bank and paid for statements to be sent to me. Requested 6 years.

 

About 2 weeks later I received statements from 2002 - 2006. I went into my local branch and asked them to check that a request for 6 years and not 4 had been made. They could not chase this up as to their whereabouts but confirmed that I had ordered statements dating back to 2000. 4 weeks later, still no sign of 2 years of statements. I again went into my local branch. This time I was told that up until 2002 they were using a different system, so these statements would take a little longer. I am still waiting!!!! But have decided to carry on with the amounts that I currently have for the 4 years as I think this is when I mainly incurred charges.

 

Also, the statements arrived in a ripped envelope. The envelope they put them into was obviously was too big and they bashed around in their journey to me.

 

22nd May 06... I sent the second letter first by mistake... although I didnt see a problem as the letters pretty much state the same thing.

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS:

0******* (sort code **-**-**) and 4******* (sort code **-**-**)

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £2409.50 plus £952.85 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £3362.35

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by he taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

23rd May...

 

received a letter back from NatWest. ( I can send you a jpeg of the full letter if you like)...

 

To summarise....

• Thanks for the letter, sorry for dissatisfaction....
  
• Charges are FAIR, REASONABLE and TRANSPARENT.
  
• Amounts debited have applied STRICTLY in accordance with published tariff.
  
• They differ on my views.
  
• Dissappointed I am contemplating legal action.

This letter is about half a page long.

 

11th July... I gave them plenty more than 14 days after my first letter. So now I posted my second letter (which should have been the first)

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS:

09875247 (sort code 55-61-17) and 42063035 (sort code 55-61-17)

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 6 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £2409.50 plus £952.85 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £3362.35.

 

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

17th July...

ALOT MORE INTERESTING....

My reply from NatWest was now over one page long. I shall send it to anyone who is interested!!!! It is worth a read as to what their new defence is.. OBVIOUSLY RUNNING SCARED OF PEOPLES CLAIMS!!

 

In summary...

• Thankyou for letter
  
• They are unsure of my basis for contention
  
• charges are fair.. blahblah
  
• satisfied tariffs complies with law and regulations.
  
• media coverage on bank charges prompted by Office of Fair Trade LIMITED TO ADMINISTRATION CHARGES ON CREDIT CARDS
  
• This DOES NOT extend to bank charges
  
• They have considered the Office of Fair Trades statement of 5th April 2006 and does not accept findings.
  
• Office of Fair Trade has restricted its investigation into credit cards.
  
• Must differ with my views
  
• WILL NOT BE REFUNDING ANY CHARGES APPLIED TO MY BANK ACCOUNT!!!

1st August 2006

 

Worked out the 8% on the spreadsheet provided on here.... my total are as follows

• Charges £2404.50
  
• Interest due to charges £986.05
  
• 8% £486.74 (so very worth sitting down for half an hour and working them out)

2nd August 2006

 

Submitted court claim at moneyclaim.gov.uk . This has cost me £120 and who knows... maybe I will have to go to court...maybe I won't.

 

Fingers crossed..................8-)

anyone on here who has claimed from natwest? any ideas how long they take to respond and pay up??

[Guest NATTIE]

Did you ever get those two years statements? Usually from my reading of the threads is that it is about as late as you can get so about 42 days. I'm sure others who read this will have a more accurate timescale of payment

[punterstuff]

No.. still not got those 2 years. So I thought i'd do them as a seperate claim and get this out of the way. Whenever I have been into Natwest to ask where they are... they do the typical 'just smile and tell them anything' routine...... last time I was kept waiting for 30 minutes while the woman on the customer service desk went asking people but then couldnt tell me anything other than to wait as they had been ordered.

Its very frustrating as I'm sure you can imagine. I'm just reading your postings now.... I think that Natwest have the same response for all of their customers..!!!

[Guest NATTIE]

I posted on NW thread about how to order copy statements because this type of thing was happening time and time and time and time and time again. It is a very easy process in my opinion if ordered correctly. Instead of using one system to order them you use the NatWest Archive that is simple and straight forward. I am not shocked by it but did the branch re-order them?

[kydcarmen]

Hi punterstuff, try chatting to angry princess, nat west settled in full. She's gonna be on gmtv tomorrow.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-print/19496-im-gmtv-thursday-3rd.html

[punterstuff]

OK guys.. read my previous threads for action so far.. (statements and letters etc)

 

I have now gone through moneyclaim and received a letter of 'Notice of Issue' informing me of when Natwest will be served and how long the defendant has to reply.

 

My claim was issued on the 3rd August, Natwest will be served on the 8th of August and they have until the 22nd of August to reply.

 

The letter outlines clearly what can happen now and what the defendants reponse may be.

 

If anyone's thinking of going through moneyclaim and would like me to scan and email you this letter I will no probs!

 

Just got to play the waiting game now and see what the next action should be. I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

[MARTIN3030]

Well done..........you took the plundge !

 

[chriswatkins]

you are just 1 day behind me then, hoping for a letter soon, I have been watching others and they have got their money 11 days after moneyclaim was served

[punterstuff]

Right.... I've just opened my post and there is an Acknowledgment of Service from Natwest with the 'I intend to defend the claim' box crossed.

 

Having read on the forums what action they have been asked to take I'm unsure people have read this sheet correctly. The 'Response Pack' outlined at the top re: Admission forms etc seem to be there for the defendant. As far as I can see from the letter, I am not expected to provide anymore information.

 

Judging by this sheet, they have photocopied the form they have filled in and the advise at the top is for them... not for us the claimant.

 

I've only just received this letter so need to do my research ito what next...... if anyone is at this stage, advice would be appreciated.

 

I can email anyone who is interested a copy of this Acknowledgment of Service form.

 

[punterstuff]

I did forget to mention that the date of the acknowledgment letter was the date they were served with my claim. So I'm guessing they haven't even looked into any of the charges I have incurred.

 

Also, I assume that because they have highlighted they will defend the claim does not mean that they actually will. They have 28 days from the 8th August to file a defense.... fingers crossed they won't take it that far!

[chriswatkins]

its strange how they are going on, my claim was served the day befor yours, and I havent heard anything from them yet, are they just going to pay me, or am I just wishful thinking, was your acknowledge signed by anyone?

[msmalls74]

Im also at this stage got my acknowledgment of service form back from cobbetts on monday (dated 3rd august) just waiting to see what happens next.

[Isobel Daly]

I am also at this stage. There was no signature on the defence notice just Cobbetts LLP. Looks like automatic response. p.s. Natwest have charged me £129 in the last 2 days for standing orders which I had cancelled and a DD for --------- wait for it!! 99p!

[laffar]

I'm just past this stage, you should get a big letter with their defence enclosed and a CPR Part 18 request for more info. At this point you can do 1 of 2 things, 1) Respond saying you expect it to go through the small claims track and hence do not have to respond to the Part 18 Request. Or 2) Respond with you own Part 18 request asking for a breakdown of costs incurred to bounce a cheque, direct debit etc ... I chose option 1 and recently received an offer of about half my claim ... which i rejected of course!

[cumbria123]

Don`t hold yopur breath, my defence was served on the 29th day, so the courts are letting them of with being late. How annoying.

[punterstuff]

How much are you claiming babe? I've been watching peoples claims and it seems claims under £1000 get paid back as you say within a couple of weeks of the claim being put in... other people claining even more are having to wait a bit longer..... I hated Natwest when I was with them... this has just made me hate them even more....

 

What does everyone think about taking our won cases to local press?? Is that possible? Surely we HAVE to spread the word!!

[cas1blue]

I have just received the Natwest defence from Cobbetts and a request for some further info. They want me to explain in para 3 how their charges were unfair under schedule 2e of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999' Can anyone advise me how to answer the request 'Please specify all of the facts relied on by the Claimants in support of the contentions in paragraph 3 above and in particular please identify the contractual provision(s) that the Claimants allege are invalid by reference to the Regulations.

 

The request refers to my quoting that their charges were 'unfair under schedule 2e of the Unfair Terms in Consulmer Contracts Regulations 1999'

[laffar]

You don't have to, see my response above.

[VeryTrying]

They want me to explain in para 3 how their charges were unfair

Is this para 3 of CPR 18? If so, as Laffar says, tell them you don't have to answer and don't bother answering their question.

[cas1blue]

Very Trying - This is para 3 of 'The Request' section of CPR 18.

 

Laffar - How do I put in my own CPR 18 asking exactly how they break each charge down?

 

All - they want us to identify the 'contractual provision (s) that we allege are invalid by reference to the Regulations (Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999). Any ideas?

 

Thank you so much for all your help!

[punterstuff]

It wasn't signed. They had just typed in Cobbets address for any further contact. Just think though, they will prbably have a pile of these to get through so dont be disheartened! they have 14 days in which to contact you... and 28 days from you filing in which to say they are going to defend it.... Just sit tight.... do it exactly how you are being advised and remember to keep your cool! x

[punterstuff]

WOAH! Looking back at my statemenst i had charges here there and everywhere even when I was in credit and wasnt using my cheque book... you just keep shrugging it off thinking they must be allowed to do it..... I'm so glad this forum exists! I dont think we'd have gone this far! At least we can support each other and its great our dates are similar to see their responses...

 

quote=Isobel Daly]I am also at this stage. There was no signature on the defence notice just Cobbetts LLP. Looks like automatic response. p.s. NatWest have charged me £129 in the last 2 days for standing orders which I had cancelled and a DD for --------- wait for it!! 99p!

[punterstuff]

Hi... so you're saying we don't really have to go through the effort of compiling the info that they request? I think this is a bit silly anyway because they have this information on their systems in the form of statements.

 

I'm just past this stage, you should get a big letter with their defence enclosed and a CPR Part 18 request for more info. At this point you can do 1 of 2 things, 1) Respond saying you expect it to go through the small claims track and hence do not have to respond to the Part 18 Request. Or 2) Respond with you own Part 18 request asking for a breakdown of costs incurred to bounce a cheque, direct debit etc ... I chose option 1 and recently received an offer of about half my claim ... which i rejected of course!