All MBNA Caggers Fight Against MBNA's underhand tactics

[lexis200]

Basa,

 

If they can't read it how can it be fit for court.

It could be a bloody long curry recipe - at least that would be useful

 

GK

 

Not if you can't read it it wouldn't be:D

[WelshMam2009]

It would certainly fail the CCA legibility requirement ...... but then this document was part of a SAR, which as far as I can see, has no legibility requirement.

 

Don't you think it's strange that there are no postal markings at all??

 

Oops, sorry, is that what that bar code is supposed to be above the address??

[vint1954]

I thought it strange that there were no postal markings.

 

Not sure when Bar Codes were introduced. What date was your agreement. If it was 2003, do not think that this is a postal bar code. Worth checking with the Post Office.

[WelshMam2009]

I thought it strange that there were no postal markings.

 

Not sure when Bar Codes were introduced. What date was your agreement. If it was 2003, do not think that this is a postal bar code. Worth checking with the Post Office.

 

Think you're right as it looks the same as this agreement here....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/182732-my-cca-mbna-please.html#post1969819

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Vint1954!

 

I thought it strange that there were no postal markings.

Good point. Why are there no signs of that Agreement having been Posted?

 

The Barcode on the Application Form is one that MBNA would've pre-printed, so it is probably their own Return Address, using the Barcode Royal Mail Four State Customer Code, or RM4SCC for short.

 

That Barcode is designed for Customer use, hence the name, so it's one Royal Mail encourage bulk mailers to use to help letters get delivered.

 

MBNA would've added that at the Printing Stage of the Application Form, so it is not a Barcode added by Royal Mail...it's far too clean, and crisp, so was on the Application Form before it was even sent out.

 

Anyone can read RM4SCC...

 

RM4SCC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

If you have 5 mins, read the link, and I bet it will tell you the Barcode contains the MBNA Postcode CM19 5GT, if so, that will prove it is just a return Barcode added by MBNA when they Printed the Application Form.

 

So...where are the Postal Marks to show that Application Form went through the Postal System and back to MBNA.

 

I can't see any.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited May 15, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Too many Cheers!

[WelshMam2009]

That's what I thought...it looks too clean!!

[vint1954]

BRW,

 

Yes, I have checked this out and the bar codes on all of their mail shot aplications are just their post code. No post office marks at all.

 

Also the date code on the front and back of the form differ.

 

Vint

[basa48]

If you have 5 mins, read the link, and I bet it will tell you the Barcode contains the MBNA Postcode CM19 5GT, if so, that will prove it is just a return Barcode added by MBNA when they Printed the Application Form.

 

So...where are the Postal Marks to show that Application Form went through the Postal System and back to MBNA.

 

I can't see any.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

You're not wrong .. it does indeed read CM19 5GT.

 

I was puzzled about the lack of franking marks, like this one

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1981616.html

 

Edit:

 

From "All About Postmarks’ – The Royal mail Guide to Postmarking Services – Summer 2003"

 

A postmark is an official mark applied by, or on behalf of, a postal services provider to items of mail. Postmarks are most commonly used by Royal Mail to cancel postage stamps affixed to items of mail; principally to ensure that the stamps are not re-used.

 

Postmarks are also applied to items of mail that do not bear any stamps at all but instead have postage printed on them to show that the appropriate rate of postage has been paid. Items such as this are known collectively as 'preprinted postal stationery'.

 

Postmarks are also known as 'cancels', 'cancellations', 'obliterations' or 'hand-stamps'. Postmarks used by Royal Mail may contain words or devices at Royal Mail's discretion. However, postmarks always include a date and corresponding post town to give an indication of when and where a particular item of mail was posted or sorted.

 

Royal Mail only applies postmarks to genuine items of mail. This means that any item submitted for postmarking should conform in all respects with postal service conditions: it should be addressed and bear at least an amount of postage appropriate to the postal service being provided.

 

Maybe my application never got posted .... or is a fake???

Edited May 15, 2009 by basa48
add quote re: postmarks

[Mightyacorn]

You're not wrong .. it does indeed read CM19 5GT.

 

I was puzzled about the lack of franking marks, like this one

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1981616.html

 

Edit:

 

From "All About Postmarks’ – The Royal mail Guide to Postmarking Services – Summer 2003"

 

 

 

Maybe my application never got posted .... or is a fake???

 

 

But I thought we were having trouble anyway with UK Mail envelopes, they never have a postmark on them either ?

[WelshMam2009]

But I thought we were having trouble anyway with UK Mail envelopes, they never have a postmark on them either ?

 

They do tend to have the orange bar codes now though.

 

Trouble is, as this is an old agreement then it has been suggested that bar codes maybe weren't used at that time (I honestly don't know if this is correct).

 

This appears to be a Royal Mail Business Service envelope, so you think there'd be something on there.

[vint1954]

I would have thought that there would be some evidence that this had been through the postal system.

 

Another link below to franking methods.

 

Warnes Mail Marketing Ltd. - Postmarks and Franking

[vint1954]

In any event, the below is from moneysupermarket forum.

 

"172.

— (1) A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under— section 77(1), section 78(1), section 79(1), So you can accept it as a true copy then: 61. Signing of agreement. — (1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless— (a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and (b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and © the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible. This renders it improperly executed and the creditor will have to go to court for an order of execution.

 

If the prescribed terms are not there or are illegible - cannot be shown to be present then: 127. — (1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under— (a) section 65(1)(improperly executed agreements), (3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

I believe that the requirement for original documents is contained in the CPR (Court Procedure Rules) but I can't find the exact reference. I did read a hearing transcript where the defendant produced a photoshopped agreement to demonstrate that copies could not be relied upon and sought proof positive by presentation of the original, and got away with it (and won!). You can demand sight of the original by requiring the original to be presented in court from within your defence documents. You can also use CPR to require pre-disclosure CPR 31.6 or go for a pre-action disclosure under CPR 31.16. Hope this helps S"

CPR looks like the route to go!

[citizenB]

Cosalt, this is becoming standard practice for ALL creditors to demand a signature. I would make it as different as you can, sign over lines or XXXX's.. photocopy the signature page before returning it.

 

 

The link in 42mans first post on the thread below is interesting regarding SARs and the extra security checks and signatures some companies are now demanding.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/199553-data-protection-sar-guidance.html

[citizenB]

The MBNA application/agreement thread has now been moved to the library

 

MBNA DOCUMENTS

 

You will need to be logged in / registered user to be able to access the pages.

 

Once again, thank you to all the contributors

[ANDREAMOUR]

Hello all...

Think this might interest you.

I received a private message yesterday from somebody called faza...

Have a read.. Because it looks to me that mbna are definately snooping this site and then trying to put the scarers on people with negative messages...

 

hi, from what i have read it looks like mbna will be doing either of the following. 1)they will be taking you to court to obtain a county court judgement. if this happens you will receive a letter from the court which explains the process. if a judgement is made against you, you can fill out a form to explain your financial details and how much you can afford to pay. the court will then decide how much you can pay, they will do this by looking at your income and expenditure and will set an affordable monthly payable amount. by filling in the form to pay an affordable amount each month, this will put a stop to the judgement order being enforceable by a bailiff. or 2) mbna will sell the debt, once this happens, the debt will come in to the hands of another company who will start asking you to repay the money. what options do you have? 1) you can phone mbna tell them about your financial difficulties, ask them to stop any late payment fees and to stop the interest which is being added on and ask them to come to an arrangement to start making affordable monthly payments. 2) you can wait until a county court judgement is passed and you can ask the court to set an affordable monthly payment to pay off the debt. 3) you can argue that the credit agreement is not enforceable due to it being illegible. as mbna are disagreeing with you, you could only do this in court and would probably need some legal advice on how and when to argue your case. its best you try and deal with this as soon as possible as the more you leave it the more late payment fees and interest will be added.

[WelshMam2009]

Hello all...

Think this might interest you.

I received a private message yesterday from somebody called faza...

Have a read.. Because it looks to me that mbna are definately snooping this site and then trying to put the scarers on people with negative messages...

 

hi, from what i have read it looks like mbna will be doing either of the following. 1)they will be taking you to court to obtain a county court judgement. if this happens you will receive a letter from the court which explains the process. if a judgement is made against you, you can fill out a form to explain your financial details and how much you can afford to pay. the court will then decide how much you can pay, they will do this by looking at your income and expenditure and will set an affordable monthly payable amount. by filling in the form to pay an affordable amount each month, this will put a stop to the judgement order being enforceable by a bailiff. or 2) mbna will sell the debt, once this happens, the debt will come in to the hands of another company who will start asking you to repay the money. what options do you have? 1) you can phone mbna tell them about your financial difficulties, ask them to stop any late payment fees and to stop the interest which is being added on and ask them to come to an arrangement to start making affordable monthly payments. 2) you can wait until a county court judgement is passed and you can ask the court to set an affordable monthly payment to pay off the debt. 3) you can argue that the credit agreement is not enforceable due to it being illegible. as mbna are disagreeing with you, you could only do this in court and would probably need some legal advice on how and when to argue your case. its best you try and deal with this as soon as possible as the more you leave it the more late payment fees and interest will be added.

 

You need to report it to one of the mods so that they can check it out!!

 

Several companies have admitted, verbally at least, to reading this forum and some have even threatened to use the posts as evidence in court!!

 

So no surprise there!!

[citizenB]

You need to report it to one of the mods so that they can check it out!!

 

Several companies have admitted, verbally at least, to reading this forum and some have even threatened to use the posts as evidence in court!!

 

So no surprise there!!

 

Noted, I have alerted the site team.

[citizenB]

andreamour, can you please confirm the user name of the person who pm'd you please.

[I've got no money]

Hello all...

Think this might interest you.

I received a private message yesterday from somebody called faza...

Have a read.. Because it looks to me that mbna are definately snooping this site and then trying to put the scarers on people with negative messages...

 

hi, from what i have read it looks like mbna will be doing either of the following. 1)they will be taking you to court to obtain a county court judgement. if this happens you will receive a letter from the court which explains the process. if a judgement is made against you, you can fill out a form to explain your financial details and how much you can afford to pay. the court will then decide how much you can pay, they will do this by looking at your income and expenditure and will set an affordable monthly payable amount. by filling in the form to pay an affordable amount each month, this will put a stop to the judgement order being enforceable by a bailiff. or 2) mbna will sell the debt, once this happens, the debt will come in to the hands of another company who will start asking you to repay the money. what options do you have? 1) you can phone mbna tell them about your financial difficulties, ask them to stop any late payment fees and to stop the interest which is being added on and ask them to come to an arrangement to start making affordable monthly payments. 2) you can wait until a county court judgement is passed and you can ask the court to set an affordable monthly payment to pay off the debt. 3) you can argue that the credit agreement is not enforceable due to it being illegible. as mbna are disagreeing with you, you could only do this in court and would probably need some legal advice on how and when to argue your case. its best you try and deal with this as soon as possible as the more you leave it the more late payment fees and interest will be added.

 

 

The moral of the story is that you should never consider advice that is sent by PM

[the main man]

You're not wrong .. it does indeed read CM19 5GT.

 

I was puzzled about the lack of franking marks, like this one

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1981616.html

 

Edit:

 

From "All About Postmarks’ – The Royal mail Guide to Postmarking Services – Summer 2003"

 

 

 

Maybe my application never got posted .... or is a fake???

 

If it helps I have an exact original application from 03/04 with the Essex address on?

 

I will dig it out.....

[basa48]

If it helps I have an exact original application from 03/04 with the Essex address on?

 

I will dig it out.....

 

That would a great help, thanks.

[ANDREAMOUR]

andreamour, can you please confirm the user name of the person who pm'd you please.

 

Here we go ive cut and pasted it...

 

faza

Basic Account Customer

 

Join Date : May 2009

Posts: 0

 

 

[citizenB]

Excellent, thank you ANDREAMOUR, strange no posts

[WelshMam2009]

Excellent, thank you ANDREAMOUR, strange no posts

 

I've also noted that a few new posters are springing up supporting CMC's and have very low post numbers (typically less than 5) as they appear to be confined to this one topic.

 

By all means call me cynical, but I can't help wondering if some have an hidden agenda.

[vint1954]

Well well,

 

Searching google eventually came up with a faza. Seems to be involved in data protection management, location Cheshire.

 

Link to posts below.

 

EduGeek.net Forums - View Profile: faza